Wifely Submission

[noyb287]

Proverbs 21:19
It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.
-apparently many women in that day and age didn't put up with it either.

 

[Followers4christ]

In Philemon Paul write a letter to the leaders of a church, two men and a women (Apphia). They are all equal leaders of the church.

women can be equal leaders in the church, they can be equal leaders in marriage.

Men and women have different roles,but are equal in the eyes of God (Galatians 3:28).Men are told to be the head of church and marriage.Men are told to never be harsh or deprive their wives,but to love their wives as Christ loves his church (1 Peter 3:7,Ephesians 5:25,Colossians 3:19,1 Corinthians 7:5,1 Timothy 5:8).Submission does not mean that a wife does not have input.Sarah, (the example of submission in 1 Peter 3:6) gave Abraham input which God said he was to follow (Genesis 21:11-12).A Godly wife is worth far more than all the rubies and treasures of this world (Proverbs 31:10-12).Godly wivies should submit out of love towards their husbands and not out of fear. God Bless You All



Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

1 Corinthians 11:3"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

Colossians 3:18"Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord."

1 Peter 3:5-6"For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands,like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear."

1 Timothy 2:11-14"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.For Adam was formed first, then Eve.And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

Ephesians 5:22-24"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

Titus 2:5"to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God."

1 Corinthians 14:34-35"women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

 

[Lisa0315]

It's thread necromancy!!

LOL!

I am going to PM you with a question related to this thread.

Lisa

 

[LJSGM]

Historically, wives have done quite well with the submission bit. What of the husbands? How many of them have had the guts to love their wives to the extent that Christ loved the Church?



The head of the household is all about service and responsibility, none about rule. Jesus demonstrated this by washing his disciples' feet. Those who will be greatest in the kingdom of God are those who are the servant of all. Similarily in a marriage... head does not mean power and authority. Head means lifting others up.

quote]

Thought this needed repeating.

 

[kevin36]

I just read the first post, and I'm jumping right here to the end, so I hope I don't step on too many toes, but...

If people would stop taking the scripture verses about a woman submitting to her husband so totally out of context, and usually inserting their own ideas as to what submitting means, and actualy read the whole thing, most of these questions would answer themselves.

I mean, c'mon... read what a Godly man is supposed to be like, and what he's supposed to do for his wife, and how he's supposed to treat her. What woman wouldn't want that?

God Bless
Kevin

 

[Lisa0315]

I just read the first post, and I'm jumping right here to the end, so I hope I don't step on too many toes, but...

If people would stop taking the scripture verses about a woman submitting to her husband so totally out of context, and usually inserting their own ideas as to what submitting means, and actualy read the whole thing, most of these questions would answer themselves.

I mean, c'mon... read what a Godly man is supposed to be like, and what he's supposed to do for his wife, and how he's supposed to treat her. What woman wouldn't want that?

God Bless
Kevin

I agree...the problem stems from men not doing their part...If women seek freedom from oppression, then, that is not their fault.

Lisa

 

[quatona]

I mean, c'mon... read what a Godly man is supposed to be like, and what he's supposed to do for his wife, and how he's supposed to treat her. What woman wouldn't want that?

I´m not a woman, so I can´t tell.
But as a man I can tell that this man wouldn´t want a submissive woman.

 

[quatona]

Just for kicks and chuckles, what's the Godly man supposed to be like and what is he supposed to do for his wife? So much is put out there about what we're supposed to do, and so much talk is generated on the wifely duties, yet I've never heard anything about what men are to do but be spiritual heads of house.

I´ve been told men are supposed to sacrifice their lives for their wives in cases of violent threats. Don´t you see that happening around you on a daily basis?

 

[quatona]

I'll trade one "sacrafice life for wife in danger" for "take out the garbage without being asked."

This is so...mundane. You know, it´s not exactly what men have in mind when dreaming of becoming a hero.

 

[Lisa0315]

Just for kicks and chuckles, what's the Godly man supposed to be like and what is he supposed to do for his wife? So much is put out there about what we're supposed to do, and so much talk is generated on the wifely duties, yet I've never heard anything about what men are to do but be spiritual heads of house.

They are supposed to love their wives as Christ loved the church. This is sacrificial love, not just in giving his life for his wife, but to his wife, and every decision should be made with her best interests in mind.

In other words, when a night out with the boys comes up, he says, "I will go have a night, but I am going to treat my wife to dinner, dancing, and a present". If he goes fishing, then, he invites his wife, or goes antiquing with her the next weekend.

When a life decision comes up, he makes the decision, considering his wifes wants and needs in the decision.

That is just my take on it.

Lisa

 

[quatona]

They are supposed to love their wives as Christ loved the church. This is sacrificial love, not just in giving his life for his wife, but to his wife, and every decision should be made with her best interests in mind.

In other words, when a night out with the boys comes up, he says, "I will go have a night, but I am going to treat my wife to dinner, dancing, and a present". If he goes fishing, then, he invites his wife, or goes antiquing with her the next weekend.

What if her interests aren´t dinner, dancing, a present or antiquing, but to spend this very night with him?
Your example sounds very much like a command to compensate for not "giving his life to his wife".

I guess, my predominant question is: Why, of all people, aren´t husbands and wifes supposed to treat each others like adults?

When a life decision comes up, he makes the decision, considering his wifes wants and needs in the decision.

And this is because women are unable to make life decisions for themselves and even less to consider their husbands´wants and needs in the decision?

I´m sort of old-fashioned in this question. I have been raised with the idea that two adult persons whenever a life decisions that affects both has to be made discuss and make this decision together.

 

[Mskedi]

It comforts me that over 50% polled say it's archaic and only 7% say that wives should submit without question.

In reading posts on this forum, I would have thought that more people were pro-submission without question. I'm glad it's just a matter of a minority being more vocal.

 

[Lisa0315]

What if her interests aren´t dinner, dancing, a present or antiquing, but to spend this very night with him?
Your example sounds very much like a command to compensate for not "giving his life to his wife".

I guess, my predominant question is: Why, of all people, aren´t husbands and wifes supposed to treat each others like adults?

And this is because women are unable to make life decisions for themselves and even less to consider their husbands´wants and needs in the decision?

I´m sort of old-fashioned in this question. I have been raised with the idea that two adult persons whenever a life decisions that affects both has to be made discuss and make this decision together.

It was just an example...

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

That's it? Is there anything else? Like women are supposed to submit, rear children, maintain the home, etc etc...







Is that all decisions, or all decisions related to the family, or decisions that feature him but involve the wife?

Well, what do I know? I have been married 21 years next month, but I am still waiting on mine to polish up that armor and become that knight of my dreams. LOL! I guess I am still trying to figure it out since I am really the head of our home in all but name.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

LOL!

I was just genuinely trying to understand because, like I said, I've heard a laundry list of things a woman must be for the husband, but not so much as a peep for what a man must be for a wife. I was just curious.

Yeah, and in churches, we gather together to teach the younger women how to be good wives and mothers. Where is the discipleship for men on how to be good husbands?

Lisa

 

[quatona]

It was just an example...

You talked about a man being supposed to make the life decisions. How is that an example, and for what? And how does my response not adress the example of that which it is an example for?

The other example (man does what he wants most, but later satisfies the needs and desires of his wife) is not really clear to me. I wonder what it was meant to be an example for. Certainly not for "giving his life to his wife".

To clarify: I am asking whether there is a good (intelligible, that is) reason for cutting these gender roles (wife submissive, man making the life decisions for them - or whatever these are examples for) in stone?

What predestines a woman to be submissive and letting someone else make the life decisions for her, and what predestines a man to be the life decision maker? (Apart from "god commanded it", I mean)?

 

[Lisa0315]

You talked about a man being supposed to make the life decisions. How is that an example, and for what? And how does my response not adress the example of that which it is an example for?

The other example (man does what he wants most, but later satisfies the needs and desires of his wife) is not really clear to me. I wonder what it was meant to be an example for. Certainly not for "giving his life to his wife".

To clarify: I am asking whether there is a good (intelligible, that is) reason for cutting these gender roles (wife submissive, man making the life decisions for them - or whatever these are examples for) in stone?

What predestines a woman to be submissive and letting someone else make the life decisions for her, and what predestines a man to be the life decision maker? (Apart from "god commanded it", I mean)?

You cannot ask a Christian, "apart from God commanded it". That is just how it is for us.

There is no good reason other than God commanded it.

Lisa

 

[quatona]

You cannot ask a Christian, "apart from God commanded it". That is just how it is for us.

Sure I can ask it. I mean, it cannot be perfectly excluded that there are good and intelligible reasons for that which god commands.

There is no good reason other than God commanded it.

I would have to agree there.

 

[kevin36]

Lisa0315 has a very good grasp on the idea.

Basically, yes, the man is supposed to love his wife as Jesus loves His church, including giving his life for her. He is to love her as he loves his own body (get your mind out of the gutter here...), and give himself to taking care of her and their family.

The wife (and any children) is the spiritual responsibility of the husband, and they are supposed to be joined together in a way that non-married people can barely even begin to undestand. They are two distinct people, but together they are actually two aspects of the one whole. Some people actually saw that when Adam was reated he was actually male and female together in one body, and when Eve was created that seperated the two, and that only through marriage do we actually become one again.

That might be a reach, but it shows exactly how close we are supposed to be, and how we are supposed to honor and respect EACH OTHER.

Submission doesn't simply mean doing what you're told- it's a frame of mind. It's how the woman thinks about her husband; what she considers his role in her life to be.

Adam was created first, and he was placed over Eve (still out of the gutter?). The husband is the head of the wife, as prescribed by God, as Jesus is the head of the Church (Ephesians). To disrespect one is to disrespect the other.

Women may take exception to the idea of submitting to their husband, but consider the other side... How do you think a Christian man that understands his responsibilities feels? If you said scared silly, you're about half way there...

God Bless
Kevin

 

[Lisa0315]

Lisa0315 has a very good grasp on the idea.

Basically, yes, the man is supposed to love his wife as Jesus loves His church, including giving his life for her. He is to love her as he loves his own body (get your mind out of the gutter here...), and give himself to taking care of her and their family.

The wife (and any children) is the spiritual responsibility of the husband, and they are supposed to be joined together in a way that non-married people can barely even begin to undestand. They are two distinct people, but together they are actually two aspects of the one whole. Some people actually saw that when Adam was reated he was actually male and female together in one body, and when Eve was created that seperated the two, and that only through marriage do we actually become one again.

That might be a reach, but it shows exactly how close we are supposed to be, and how we are supposed to honor and respect EACH OTHER.

Submission doesn't simply mean doing what you're told- it's a frame of mind. It's how the woman thinks about her husband; what she considers his role in her life to be.

Adam was created first, and he was placed over Eve (still out of the gutter?). The husband is the head of the wife, as prescribed by God, as Jesus is the head of the Church (Ephesians). To disrespect one is to disrespect the other.

Women may take exception to the idea of submitting to their husband, but consider the other side... How do you think a Christian man that understands his responsibilities feels? If you said scared silly, you're about half way there...

God Bless
Kevin

I agree with you, but can you give some practical application examples?

Lisa