Wicca - Good or Evil

[light-bringer]

The Bible isn't everything.

 

[HadouKen24]

And, since it is through the means of acceleration that an object gains or loses speed, or changes its course, and thus is said to move, in the absolute sense, and since we perceive movement in the universe, which evidentiates the presence of acceleration, we conclude Newtonian physics do indeed strenghen the position that each motion has a cause.

* lightly smacks Lifesaver upside the head for being an arrogant dumb*** *

Motion is not the gaining or losing of speed. Vector acceleration is a change upon motion. Get your terms straight.

Is it possible that the same person who, just a moment ago, advised me to take a calculus physics class, has never heard of limits?
Or is it the case that he, distressed by the sudden exposure of the weaknesses of his arguments, is requiring an unreasonable level of formalism (which he himself has not used thus far), completely unnecessary to the discussion, only to deviate from the subject at hand, but ultimately arrive at the same conclusion?

Could it be the case Lifesaver, in a desperate effort to hide the fact that he does not understand my proof, is arguing from specious rhetorical questions?

Limits are irrelevant. You might say that the limit of the function (whatever it is) is infinity as distance d approaches infinity. That simply means that the function has no upper limit. That is, you can keep picking points with greater and greater distances between each other. The value of the limit does not change the fact that for no two distances is the distance actually infinity.

I am using the very same level of formalism that I used when I formulated my proof. When using mathematical terms, I use mathematical precision. Any discussion of infinity must; infinity is most definitely a mathematical idea.

An infinite number of "first causes"?!
Or a chain of causes that go to infinity?!
Regardless of which is chosen, neither makes any sense.
Your demonstration, when well understood, demonstrates what I've been saying all along. It is necessary, for there to be an observable effect, for there to be a first cause, that is, in a measurable distance (and not an infinite one) from point B.
All you did was show that you could make that distance bigger. But however big it is, we still have a point A and a point B. If we were to represent your "no first cause" thesis on the line, we'd have to place point A at an infinite distance from point B (which, as you brightly pointed out, is impossible), and the distance between them would be infinite.

I showed that, on an infinite line of causes, there are no causes that are an infinite distance from each other. To place A infinitely far from B is not to posit NO first cause; you are positing a first cause A infinitely far from B. You are still clinging to the idea of a first cause.

If I must place A at an infinite distance from B, at least tell me why. You have not presented any mathematical proofs of that yet. Give me something, geometrical, algebraic, whatever.

Anyone, of any religion and regardless of having the true faith, can logically arrive at the knowledge of God's existence. That is my point.

And what about those who posit a non-intelligent first cause, like the supposed collision of two other universes?

Oh no. For that we'd need to use our faculties of abstraction. The same faculties we use to talk about equality in the physical realm, which, in reality, we know does not exist there.
Analogously, I could say, as the vibration of molecules tends to infinite (never arrives, only tends), where does the temperature tend to? Infinite as well.

I beg pardon? Exactly what do you mean by saying that the vibration of molecules "tends" towards infinity?

Please, if you have a valid objection, put it forward. If you have a complaint for a level of mathematical formality which is useless in our discussion, please refrain from voicing it.

I'm beginning to have doubts about your intellectual competency.

This "useless" mathematical "formality" is integral to my refutation of Aquinas' second and third Ways. If you require a lack of precision for your arguments to be valid, then you are very probably wrong.

 

[Ryal Kane]

Imagine a book. The author says everything in it is true.
Something in it may be wrong. But that does not mean all of it is wrong.

From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong H.D) Heather Dawn believes that the christian bible is the word of Jehovah, the Hebrew God.
But Heather does not believe that Jehovah is all powerful or all truthful.

If you can, imagine a world where many gods compete for worshipers.
Of COURSE a deity is going to tell peole he's the only way. That doesn't mean he is correct.
You claim the Bible is 100% right.
But Heather Dawn does NOT claim that it is %100 wrong.

You create a false dichotomy of either/or without realizing that there are multiple possibilities. It's not all or nothing.

It is your choice to disbelieve Heather Dawn. Personally I don't believe either Christianity or Pantheism. But you should at least try to understand what another person believes.

Ryal Kane

 

[peaceful soul]

Imagine a book. The author says everything in it is true.
Something in it may be wrong. But that does not mean all of it is wrong.

From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong H.D) Heather Dawn believes that the christian bible is the word of Jehovah, the Hebrew God.
But Heather does not believe that Jehovah is all powerful or all truthful.

If you can, imagine a world where many gods compete for worshipers.
Of COURSE a deity is going to tell peole he's the only way. That doesn't mean he is correct.
You claim the Bible is 100% right.
But Heather Dawn does NOT claim that it is %100 wrong.

You create a false dichotomy of either/or without realizing that there are multiple possibilities. It's not all or nothing.

It is your choice to disbelieve Heather Dawn. Personally I don't believe either Christianity or Pantheism. But you should at least try to understand what another person believes.

Ryal Kane

Thanks for the post. I understand what Heathen Dawn generally believes. I understand what most people believe that I communicate with. I study things to try to understand. I just do not start talking without some basic understanding.

The problem is Heathen Dawn's refusal to admit that by saying that Jehova is true, but not the only God definitely goes against scripture. That, in reality, makes Jehova a liar, to be truthful. This belief allows Heathen Dawn to be able to subscribe to his personal beliefs without having to account for the claims of Jehova per Bible. This also allows him to not have to worry about being judged by Jehova for his desire not to understand the message of Christ. The analysis is not quite that simple, but good enough for understanding of what I see.

There is no false dichotomy. A true god can not be wrong at any level. To make such claims and not follow through makes that god actually not a god. Understand? The true god must have integrity.Jehova gave an entire revelation to us. He showed His sovereignity, trust, love, compassion, integrity, etc. to us through Bible so that we could see His track record. He gives us scripture for us to test His claims. Any true Christian can tell you that He keeps every one of His promises and exactly as He promised as long as we remain faithful to Him. At some point, one has to see that this realtionship is not a pragmatic approach.

The trust in Him and His trust in us develops a more intense realtionship whereby a Christian knows that Jehova will be faithful to him or her at all times and is able to back up His claims. Heathen Dawn can not know these things because he is not a receptor of the truth of Bible. Bible states that the Word of God is life to some and death for others. The death is a result of disbelief, rebellion, and other issues; but all of these things come from a sinful nature that Heathen Dawn also denies.

The point was that Heathen Dawn can not back up his claims as saying the Bible is false or not binding to every human. Heathen Dawn can not say that with an honest conviction, because of many factors: one being his lack of Biblical knwledge and understanding, and the other being that he has not walked in a Christian's shoes and understands the spiritual things of Christ. HD has no clue what we see in spiritual terms and what we understand. So, it is really not a good and wise thing to write me or any other Christian off as ill informed about spiritual matters pertaining to nonChristians. It takes an act of humility to realize that and to actually realize that the claims of Jehova may have more validity than they are being given credit for.

That is all I have to say on the matter. I think that anyone who wants to write off what I have said is a bit foolish, IMO.

 

[light-bringer]

There is no false dichotomy. A true god can not be wrong at any level.

Thats assuming this God is true...

 

[peaceful soul]

Thats assuming this God is true...

That should be a built-in assumption. Do not you think? I do not have to be convinced of that though.

 

[Rae]

A true god can not be wrong at any level.

Humans can be wrong about what true Gods want, though. I think that's the case with the humans who wrote the Bible.

 

[peaceful soul]

Humans can be wrong about what true Gods want, though. I think that's the case with the humans who wrote the Bible.

You forget that we have Holy Spirit to guide us. That makes the world of difference. Do you think that God lives inside Bible? Bible is only a portion of God's communication. Perhaps you think that God is not capable of correcting those He calls?

Basically you are saying that God did not inspire man to write, and that He could not trust them to write, or He had no authority over those He specifically chose. God did a lot of preparation to those He appointed to communicate His message to us. It seems that you are not thinking too much here.

What I find fascinating is that you are willing to overlook the testimonies of our encounters that validate Bible. If they are all true, you would be naive to not think that we may have a point.

 

[Rae]

You forget that we have Holy Spirit to guide us.

I don't believe you do, though.

Do you think that God lives inside Bible?

Not most of it, no. Most of it I think is made-up human fantasies which are utterly wrong about God.

Perhaps you think that God is not capable of correcting those He calls?

I believe God is capable, but obviously hasn't.

 

[Mekkala]

Any religion, doctrine, teaching, information, speech or thought that denies Christ is evil.

Any of the above that lead people away from God is evil.

Any of the above that call evil good and good evil are evil.

Wow, you've really covered your bases here, haven't you? I gotta give you props -- you've developed a set of rules by which anyone who disagrees with you is evil by definition. Subtle, yet powerful.

 

[bt_st_At]

Thanks for the post. I understand what Heathen Dawn generally believes. I understand what most people believe that I communicate with. I study things to try to understand. I just do not start talking without some basic understanding.

The problem is Heathen Dawn's refusal to admit that by saying that Jehova is true, but not the only God definitely goes against scripture. That, in reality, makes Jehova a liar, to be truthful. This belief allows Heathen Dawn to be able to subscribe to his personal beliefs without having to account for the claims of Jehova per Bible. This also allows him to not have to worry about being judged by Jehova for his desire not to understand the message of Christ. The analysis is not quite that simple, but good enough for understanding of what I see.

There is no false dichotomy. A true god can not be wrong at any level. To make such claims and not follow through makes that god actually not a god. Understand? The true god must have integrity.Jehova gave an entire revelation to us. He showed His sovereignity, trust, love, compassion, integrity, etc. to us through Bible so that we could see His track record. He gives us scripture for us to test His claims. Any true Christian can tell you that He keeps every one of His promises and exactly as He promised as long as we remain faithful to Him. At some point, one has to see that this realtionship is not a pragmatic approach.

The trust in Him and His trust in us develops a more intense realtionship whereby a Christian knows that Jehova will be faithful to him or her at all times and is able to back up His claims. Heathen Dawn can not know these things because he is not a receptor of the truth of Bible. Bible states that the Word of God is life to some and death for others. The death is a result of disbelief, rebellion, and other issues; but all of these things come from a sinful nature that Heathen Dawn also denies.

The point was that Heathen Dawn can not back up his claims as saying the Bible is false or not binding to every human. Heathen Dawn can not say that with an honest conviction, because of many factors: one being his lack of Biblical knwledge and understanding, and the other being that he has not walked in a Christian's shoes and understands the spiritual things of Christ. HD has no clue what we see in spiritual terms and what we understand. So, it is really not a good and wise thing to write me or any other Christian off as ill informed about spiritual matters pertaining to nonChristians. It takes an act of humility to realize that and to actually realize that the claims of Jehova may have more validity than they are being given credit for.

That is all I have to say on the matter. I think that anyone who wants to write off what I have said is a bit foolish, IMO.

I still don't understand why I and my fellow pagans would be punished for being human. I may lie but I can't help that and many christians do it as well. I don't go around hurting people, I don't go around forcing people to switch their religion, oh but wait that's in the name of God so it's alright like 9/11.

See how stupid that sounds. "If it's in the name of God it's okay." There is nothing wrong with saying God is Devil like in that he wants to make himself look good but he did a couple of bad things to get where he is. CEO of the universe is a hard job to get. Let go of what the bible says and let your heart decide it knows the real real truth. From what you know from the bible and what you know about other relgions it will tell you the truth about our creator whoever it is.

BTW: As for sinful nature, why is that most of the crime in most of the world is carried out mostly by christians. Men who are of god reading the bible up to their expiration date. Their is a certain psychology that I was taught at a young age and it was; you never sad that a child was "bad" when they did somthing wrong because they would become bad, you should always use the term "naughty" which only meant they did something wrong and did not imply that they were something negative. Sin is the sameway and that's why christians are so much worse then any religion (excluding extreme Islamics) Christians shouldn't say they are sinful because they will become more so instead they should say they are human, because it's the truth...

Blessed Be

 

[Volos]

In your denial, you, by default, deny other things about Christianity. You deny Christ and his purpose; so what is the point of patronizing Christ, therefore Christianity?

if only all Christians agreed on all points of dogma.

There are Christians who believe in the intercessional power of saints yet there are Christians who do not. There are Christians who believe in a literal trinity yet there are Christians who do not and so on. if you deny things that other Christians embrace are you not also denying things about Christianity?

Truth is not exclusive, but absolute.

if only this could be shown to be absolutely true…

then you would only have to deal with the problem of showing that your version of the truth is what is absolutely true.

Christianity claims absolutism about us and our true realtionship with God.

the argument against exclusion however remains the single logical proof against Christianity that has never been resolved or even adequately attacked by Christian apologetics so if I were you I would be cautious about bringing up exclusion if I were you.

Like I said, a trustworthy and sovereign god does not have us going around trying to find truth among many religions.

which explains why there is only one form of Christianity…oops

How would we know which religions to look into to find these truths. That would be dishonest of Him and would only serve to confuse. God is not the author of confusion.

why would you assume an omnipotent, omniscient and omni-benevolent Deity would limit him (or her) self by dictating only one religion? Why would such a Deity care about the ever changing rituals of humans?

Once again, Bible tells us that this is not the case. Once you die, you do not come back nor does your spirit come back. You are sentenced to live either with God or apart from Him depending upon your obedience to Him. There are also near-death experiences that conclude the opposite notions of what you say. How do you explain them?

If your view of the afterlife is true then the Christian Heaven would be devoid of good people. A truly good person would refuse entrance to heaven knowing the evils that await those in hell. Any truly good person would reject such an arrangement as something other than good and do what good people do, go to hell and try to help those suffering there.

So who enters the Christian heaven? The self serving, those who follow the letter of the law because it benefits them, those who do not or cannot care for others.

And what does this say about your God? Obviously he is more interested in those who follow than those who are good…not the benchmark of an omni-benevolent deity.

You are taking things out of context. Sure, I could find something to nullify everything that you say. Let us stay with the confines of the discussion. You know exactly what I mean. You do not understand what dominion means with respect to Bible. It appears to me that you live a philosophy of life of recognizing only authority which you can tolerate.

pot…kettle…kettle…pot

As I have mentioned before, that can not be since Jehova contradicts that notion. Either all of what the Bible claims as truth is truth or it is not. God does not do a half job. He is either totally sovereign or He is not.

Jehovah is part of the Divine like Thor or Mithris or Isis or Diana or Krishna or Svarog he is still part of the Divine and neither better or worse than any other God or Goddess.



The Divine is sovereign….but Jehovah is only an aspect of the Divine, not the totality.

You view God as a corporation. There are many departments, of which, each has it's own boss (gods/goddesses). Each department head talks to the "big boss" (the ultimate). Your corporate view of God does not account for ultimate authority and true accoutability. Why? The "ultimate" must have subjugation from all of the departments; otherwise the "ultimate" does not have true sovereignity over the corporation. The ultimate can not be questioned and modify its behavior according to the departments request. That means that Jehova can not be a be one of the department heads since He does not go along with the corporate structure. Can you see that?

in a future post you claim that you “understand what Heathen Dawn generally believes. I understand what most people believe that I communicate with. I study things to try to understand. I just do not start talking without some basic understanding.” Yet your statement here makes it very clear that you do not understand the Pagan view of Divinity and apparently have not made much of an effort to do so. If seems what you have done is take your views of what Pagans believe and ignored what Pagans actually believe because it better suits your position.

I think that I explained myself well, but I understand your point, though and generally agree. I was pointing out that through Christ, the encounter is far different. Christ moves us away from selfishness and gives us a new nature. Religion teaches conformity by works and rituals. In Christianity, Christ does the changing instead of a religion.

are you implying that only your particular brand of religion can change people for the better?

Thanks for telling me and Christ that we are ignorant.

while I will agree that HD needs to consider how he treats those of other religions you have said much worse about those who believe differently than you. Perhaps if you wish you and your religion to be treated with respect you might set an example.

Now can we actually find scripture in proper context that would validate your assertions? Otherwise, be silent with your opinions. Being more spiritual has nothing to do with Christianity. That goes under the category of spiritual pride.

proper context being of course what you personally say it is.

I am talking about the premise for belonging to God. We come to God not for our personal fulfillment, but for the sake of serving God.

why does an omnipotent, omni-benevolent, omniscient and unique being even desire worship?

Is that so hard to understand? In other words, if God never promised us anything - spirituality, we would still be obligated to serve Him unconditionally. Now do you get it? When you look for a spiritual path, you are looking out for you. Bible teaches us to serve God for His glory and His pleasure and not be self-seeking creatures.

but if we are to serving God unconditionally how can you then say that we may only serve God in the context of Christianity?

You are neglecting the premise of the text then. If the text says it is from God, then you just can not say it is not because you do not believe it either; so you still have a dilemna.

the Koran says it is from God…do you accept it as such or do you say it is not because you don’t believe it? The Bhagavad Gita says it is from God…do you accept it as such or do you say it is not because you don’t believe it? The Kalevala says it is from God…do you accept it as such or do you say it is not because you don’t believe it? The Mabinogi says it is from God…do you accept it as such or do you say it is not because you don’t believe it?

 

[Heathen Dawn]

In your denial, you, by default, deny other things about Christianity. You deny Christ and his purpose; so what is the point of patronizing Christ, therefore Christianity?

You form a relationship with Yahweh by accepting His son Jesus as Lord and Saviour. What more do you want? More than that—that Yahweh is the only God and Christianity the one religion—I cannot grant, as I don’t believe it’s true.

Truth is not exclusive, but absolute.

??? This seems like a contradiction.

Like I said, a trustworthy and sovereign god does not have us going around trying to find truth among many religions. How would we know which religions to look into to find these truths. That would be dishonest of Him and would only serve to confuse. God is not the author of confusion.

I am not shackled to the propositions that all the Gods are morally perfect; it is no shocker to me that Yahweh should be a consummate liar, lying about His oneness and creatorhood in order to gain worshippers.

Once again, Bible tells us that this is not the case. Once you die, you do not come back nor does your spirit come back. You are sentenced to live either with God or apart from Him depending upon your obedience to Him.

The Bible is no more trustworthy about theology and afterlife (heavenly things) than about cosmology and origins (earthly things).

There are also near-death experiences that conclude the opposite notions of what you say. How do you explain them?

Which ones? I’ve never read any NDE confirming Christian beliefs.

Now you are making an absolute claim, which you forbidded me form using in my assesment of your view. What's up with that?

I did not forbid you making absolute claims. All I said is your absolute claims are false.

You view God as a corporation. There are many departments, of which, each has it's own boss (gods/goddesses). Each department head talks to the "big boss" (the ultimate).

No, that’s your view—God as Divine CEO reached only by mediation through Vice-President Jesus. My view of Divinity is that of a multifaceted diamond.

That means that Jehova can not be a be one of the department heads since He does not go along with the corporate structure. Can you see that?

Each of the Gods is free to do as He pleases, including usurp the Creator in oneness and creatorhood.

Jehova made a lot of bold claims. One of them was that He was the God of Israel and the God of the Gentiles too. That would include being God over you, Heathen Dawn.

And I happen to disbelieve those claims.

I can claim I’m the King of Sweden. Believe me. Because I said so.

Christ moves us away from selfishness and gives us a new nature.

I would believe this line if Christianity had no eternal heaven and hell. But they put the lie to it.

Salvation can not be proxied. It has to be sought by an individual.

My point about selfishness proven, then.

Your fire insurance analogy is unfounded if you look at the Gospels in proper context. There is no bribe as you try to point out.

If there is no bribe, why does a non-Christian go to hell?

The love of God is unconditional

No, it’s conditional: the condition is that we accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour, otherwise we are children of wrath rather than children of God. That much I’ve read in the Bible.

I do not know, but I can safely guess it has something to do with your preconceived desire to not believe in Jehova.

No, it has something to do with my desire to be a free human being rather than a dog begging before its master. I value freedom highly. The Gods should be worshipped, but we do not need the Gods to tell us how to tie our shoelaces (in the case of Orthodox Judaism) or how to think (in the case of all Abrahamic religions).

God does not lack anything, but He desires much from His creation.

Ever this emphasis on giving service to God. No, God does not need your service! One serves God only because one needs God oneself. Those who need your service are fellow humans. The hands that help are better than the lips that pray.

In other words, if God never promised us anything - spirituality, we would still be obligated to serve Him unconditionally.

Correct, then He should not have used eternal hell to entice people to serve Him.

Your obsession with Hell is not going to help you understand Bible any better.

My obsession with Hell is perfectly in place and it’s not going away any time soon, seeing as eternal hell is the most gaping moral chasm of Christianity. Eternal torment is something we would expect the embodiment of evil (ie Satan) to do, not the All-Loving Creator of the universe; that Christians say God allows people to be eternally tormented in hell is something I regard as blasphemy of the severest order.

I would like for you to study Bible or allow someone to teach you so that you can see the errors in you assertions about Bible.

What Bible? Jewish Bible, which ends in 2 Chronicles? Protestant Bible, which has the New Testament in addition? Catholic Bible, which adds the Apocrypha to all those? There isn’t a single Bible to study.

Check up another case for nulla scriptura...

 

[Heathen Dawn]

Sorry to disappoint anyone who was interested in this debate, but I’m packing in. My spiritual health is at stake. I’ve soaked up enough negative energies here to last me for a lifetime. Goodbye all.

Forwarding Address

 

[psychedelicist]

Could you please back that up with some kind of authority other than yours?

If all of the Bible is correct, as you say, if I can disprove the flood, that would naturally disprove the rest of the Bible. As you said, God wouldn't do half the job.

And it just so happens that the flood has been disproved through 6 methods involving simple science and common sense.
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/6flood.htm

 

[Kloges123]

I am wiccan so I am going to explain my faith
Wiccan believes in a mother goddess and a father god aka the triple goddess horned god. yes we are considered witches and I am darn proud of it.
We can do spells with candles wordes herbs stones there are all kinds of ways to do spells we can do almost any spell if we follow the wiccan rede. It pretty much says "if it harm none do as ye will".
So we cant be satanists if we dont believe in harm and aparenty satan does. so it just dousnt work out. And instead of having "sins" we believe in the three fold law that anything that you do will come back to you three times as bad or three times as good. Depends what you did.
We also have the 8 sabbaths which are our holidays. Some might say that christans stole are holidays but I dont want to get in a argument. Wiccans revolve there faith around nature and some might say that the mother goddess is mother nature. depends who you talk to though. there are difrent kinds their are druids which are more nature. celtic wiccan which I am you ussally they are Irish. and just reguler wiccan.
WE dont go to church and we dont believe in hell so if we are going to hell woudnt we have to believe in it? I dont think so. We ussally practice in private but you can join a convent and practice with friends.
All the wiccans that I have known have a alter a place were you put stuff that is close to you for me it is that and it is also the place to do spells and rituels. We also dont have a whole rule book we are free and we dont have to always worship and we dont have to have a spicific time to worship.
WE also kind of have the moddo live and let live were we live are life and you live youres. We also dont try and convert people we just be who they are. To the awneser to the main question wiccan is not evil and it will never be evil.
You might say that god will condem us to a eternity in hell but I believe in recarnation and that my soul will go into a another body that I have a past life our this is my first life.
So you might think we are evil but stop listening to people that dont know what they are talking about do a little research and think for youre self dont let youre church think for you make up youre own mind. I have complete respect for all
Blessed be

 

[CJ.23]

I have said this before elsewhere and I will say it again, 99% of those who identify with the Wiccan religion, and claim the title wiccan, are not iniated in to a Coven or part of the mystery religion that is 'mainstream Wicca', which has a few hundred adherents. If you wish to discuss what actual Wiccans of the Gardnerian or Alexandrian traditions believe, and are willing to give at least two stages of your covens lineage so I can trace your 'apostolic succession', I'll gladly debate with you. Otherwise we are just debating with people who call themseleves wiccans, but that term just covers a very wide range of New Age believers. Alternatively how about I invite someone from the Pagan Fed who is an initiated Wiccan to formally discuss this?

I often get called a fascist when I say this, but Wiccans do not accept self initiates or those outside of their community of faith on the whole, and therefore we are really discussing two seperate paths: Wicca, an initiatory occult religion, and folks who call themselves Wiccan.

cj x

 

[CJ.23]

I am wiccan so I am going to explain my faith
Wiccan believes in a mother goddess and a father god aka the triple goddess horned god... I have complete respect for all
Blessed be

Welcome to Christian Forums Kloges, and blessings to you!

cj x

 

[Lifesaver]

Starcrystal, every single of those "denouncements" of the Church are against persons who did evil.
Not against the Church itself, which is inerrant and indefectible.

Can the personal corruption of men corrupt God's Word and God's Church? They cannot.

And then someone "personally interprets" passages to mean what they already believe in. Each of them making their own personal religion...
I hope you'll let go of these heretical and blasphemous beliefs (that God's creations are inefective, and that He either lied or was wrong about the gates of Hell never prevailing against the Church), and join the Church, where you'll find not personal opinions and individual interpretations, but true doctrine.

 

[Lifesaver]

I am wiccan so I am going to explain my faith

Hello Kloges. Welcome to the forums.
Let's see your explanation.

Wiccan believes in a mother goddess and a father god aka the triple goddess horned god. yes we are considered witches and I am darn proud of it.

You have already stated that you belief in more than one god, and one of them is a "horned god".
You also believe in the existence of magick, an energy which can be manipulated by those who know how to, right?

We can do spells with candles wordes herbs stones there are all kinds of ways to do spells we can do almost any spell if we follow the wiccan rede. It pretty much says "if it harm none do as ye will".

That is a very bad morality, Kloges.
It boils down to simple hedonism, and at best benthamist utilitarianism, which is also very very bad.

So we cant be satanists if we dont believe in harm and aparenty satan does.

Even though they don't explicitly believe or worship satan (no posters in the bedroom wall, not upside down crosses on their necks), they offend God by worshipping other beings.
In practice, it is the work of the devil that is being done.

celtic wiccan which I am you ussally they are Irish. and just reguler wiccan.

It is very sad to see that many Irish, denying themselves the legitimate faith of their country, the Catholic faith, which is largely responsible for the Irish national identity itself, and throwing themselves back to the old and terrible Pagan practices, which turn them into slaves of sin and of the devil's will.