Wicca - Good or Evil

[Heathen Dawn]

I deplore the fact that the use of reason has been hijacked by atheists...

Now, what did I say previously about a wafer becoming the flesh and blood of the Creator of the universe?

I see. And what about Smurves, the flower spirits? Don't they exist as well?

No, flower is not one of the elements.

If one dislikes good, if one dislikes truth, they'll be forever separated from them, with all that that carries with it.
God would be evil if He did not give us the option of separation, for Heaven is totally unbearable for the soul that hates God.

Christian hell isn’t just separation, it’s torture, and no-one chooses to be tortured. It places Christianity on the same level as Don Corleone’s promise to burn your house down unless you pay him the protection money.

If one puts the earthly life of their relatives above God, do they really love Him the way they ought to?

So if God told you to kill your son, you’d do it? And Christians dare complain about the declining morality of the modern world!

The SS men had “Gott mit uns” (God with us) on their belts. They obeyed their Führer as devoutly as Abraham obeyed his God.

And it is no wonder that Neo-Pagans admire Adam; afterall, pride, rebellion, independence and revolt are all upheld by modernists.

Adam is a myth, he never existed. But myths can teach us, and that myth does teach us that Adam’s fall was minor. Like a child told not to take biscuits from a jar laid in front of its eyes, so was Adam. Reading Genesis 3, it’s easy to see Yahweh rigged up the whole system for Adam to fall. So Adam was really innocent, and we do not deserve to suffer the consequences of his failure of a test he could never pass.

 

[Lifesaver]

Now, what did I say previously about a wafer becoming the flesh and blood of the Creator of the universe?

I don't quite remember, but it wasn't very intelligent to begin with.

No, flower is not one of the elements.

Oh, so what is the spirit of Aluminium? And of Helium?
What evidence have you that these "spirits" even exist?

Christian hell isn’t just separation, it’s torture, and no-one chooses to be tortured. It places Christianity on the same level as Don Corleone’s promise to burn your house down unless you pay him the protection money.

One feels tortured and wretched, that is true. But they did choose it. And no, it has nothing to do with ransom, but with one's disposition towards goodness and truth, in relation to their personal comfort or other less important things. Ultimately, the individual either chooses the first over the latter, or the latter over the first.

So if God told you to kill your son, you’d do it? And Christians dare complain about the declining morality of the modern world!

God cannot possibly do something evil...

The SS men had “Gott mit uns” (God with us) on their belts. They obeyed their Führer as devoutly as Abraham obeyed his God.

Indeed, that's what happens when a society ceases to believe in God, in exchange for their idols.

Adam is a myth, he never existed. But myths can teach us, and that myth does teach us that Adam’s fall was minor. Like a child told not to take biscuits from a jar laid in front of its eyes, so was Adam. Reading Genesis 3, it’s easy to see Yahweh rigged up the whole system for Adam to fall. So Adam was really innocent, and we do not deserve to suffer the consequences of his failure of a test he could never pass.

Adam was no child, but a grown man.
He chose to rebel against His Creator, and do what is unjust.

 

[psychedelicist]

The spirit world?
Do you think the soul of the dead are roaming around? I hope not.

You should know that the only kind of spiritual creatures is angels. They can be good or evil (we call them demons, then).

"spiritual creatures" as you call them, are more simply put, conciousness-without-an-object. If we lose our bodies and go to heaven, we would also be "spirits", because we would have left our spiritual bodies.

I was under the impression that the spirits of the dead, for the most part, existed on the metaphysical (also called astral) plane, rather than the physical, and very rarely came to our plane. An intermediary (a channeler) would be the bridge between the two planes, allowing them to talk with one another. But I haven't looked any of that up in a while, so I'm probably real fuzzy on it.

I have also noticed that the pagan side of the argument has been calm and collected while the christian side has been attack after attack on what rubbish paganism is.

 

[psychedelicist]

I don't quite remember, but it wasn't very intelligent to begin with.

Ah yes another pointless attack on paganism, gee thats big of you.

Oh, so what is the spirit of Aluminium? And of Helium?
What evidence have you that these "spirits" even exist?

The 4 elements they are talking about if fire wind air and water, not all the elements of the periodic table. And we have no more proof than you have that Jehovah and Lucifer exist.

One feels tortured and wretched, that is true. But they did choose it. And no, it has nothing to do with ransom, but with one's disposition towards goodness and truth, in relation to their personal comfort or other less important things. Ultimately, the individual either chooses the first over the latter, or the latter over the first.

Wasn't it referred to as a "lake of fire"? That sounds like torment to me...

God cannot possibly do something evil...

Was it not God who killed all the newborns in the plagues, all to 'prove his authority'? Is that not blatantly evil?

I don't feel like debating the last parts because if they haven't gotten through to you yet, there is no point in further convincing you.

 

[e=mv^2]

Ah yes another pointless attack on paganism, gee thats big of you.

Um, This was a resonse to a sarcastic attack on Lifesaver's beliefs.

I have also noticed that the pagan side of the argument has been calm and collected while the christian side has been attack after attack on what rubbish paganism is.

Have you read the whole thread? All the threads on Paganism? Most of them start like this : "Pagan religion x is a true religion".
That is an all out attack on Christianity and is calling Christ a liar. Yet you guys want us to be tolerant of you.

If I were to go to a pagan oriented board and open a thread with "Paganism is utterly false" do you think I would get hugged?

 

[Crispie]

If God told me to kill my son, yes Id do it. Just like Abraham was going to kill his son because God commanded. Why does hell exist? Because God is A JUST GOD. comon, he offers paradise for eternity, or Hell forever for not accepting one thing. What I find funny is people ignore the fact that If your God and you offer these 2 things and people ignorently take the path that leads to hell, instead of the truth, then hey thats there problem because that is the path they took, not Gods fault. People forget the penaltys and realitys. We are like little ants to God. We are nothing compared to him, it just so happens he loves us enopuh to actually have himself tortured and killed for us. He created us, so he can do whatever he wants with us, just like how he does whatever he wants with his angels.

 

[psychedelicist]

What I find funny is people ignore the fact that If your God and you offer these 2 things and people ignorently take the path that leads to hell, instead of the truth, then hey thats there problem because that is the path they took, not Gods fault.

If I was God, there would not be a hell because I don't have a superiority complex where everyone needs to worship me to be with me. I do not think that living your life the way you want to should equate to eternal suffering. If God was to present undeniable proof of his existence, THEN give us a choice, yes the people who choose not to follow should be cut off. But there is no guarantee that christianity is the right path, and I am not willing to embrace it simply because it has the worst punishment for not believing it. It is true that it is our choice to 'sin', however it was God's choice to invent it, so to punish us for something he created, seems a bit irrational.

 

[psychedelicist]

And please show me a post where someone has said 'paganism is the one true belief', because it is customary for pagans not to try to convert, but to let people come willingly. So no pagan would start threads like that, and anyone who did is obviously not a pagan.

 

[Volos]

God a product of fairy tales? It doesn't seem probable, as His existence is demonstrable.
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/100203.htm

all which is very fine evidence for the existence of Isis

 

[psychedelicist]

All great points, however, either way you look at it, infinity is incomprehensible. It is just as likely that the universe has always been like this for all eternity, whether because of some God or not.

 

[psychedelicist]

You also might want to look into quantum physics, it blows those arguements out of the water.

 

[Crispie]

If I was God, there would not be a hell because I don't have a superiority complex where everyone needs to worship me to be with me. I do not think that living your life the way you want to should equate to eternal suffering. If God was to present undeniable proof of his existence, THEN give us a choice, yes the people who choose not to follow should be cut off. But there is no guarantee that christianity is the right path, and I am not willing to embrace it simply because it has the worst punishment for not believing it. It is true that it is our choice to 'sin', however it was God's choice to invent it, so to punish us for something he created, seems a bit irrational.

If you were God, you would do the wisest and and most logical thing you could think of. Which would mean you would make a hell. Opinions dont reviel absolute truths.

 

[Peguero]

Who is us to judge if is good or bad? Let our lord Yeshua decide that, but i think if it does not come from the word of GOD(bible) it can't be from our heavenly father.

 

[Heathen Dawn]

I don't quite remember, but it wasn't very intelligent to begin with.

You claim to be a rationalist, yet you believe that a wafer can become the real flesh and blood of the Creator of the universe. In the GA forum such a belief wouldn’t win you many brownie points from the atheists there (who are THE rationalists, pace eis).

What evidence have you that these "spirits" even exist?

Evidence! Bring me evidence of God if you can! Going by evidence alone, we should all be atheists.

One feels tortured and wretched, that is true. But they did choose it.]

Nope, that won’t work. No-one chooses to be tortured. It is forced on them by your God.

God cannot possibly do something evil...

He told Abraham to kill his son.

Indeed, that's what happens when a society ceases to believe in God, in exchange for their idols.

The Nazis never ceased to believe in God.

Adam was no child, but a grown man.

But innocent like a child, not knowing good or evil.

He chose to rebel against His Creator, and do what is unjust.

He did nothing unjust. There is no injustice in eating that fruit, it harms no-one.

All on the premises, of course. I don’t believe that myth.

 

[Peguero]

1. Who told there is a hell or that there will be a hell?

 

[Crispie]

God did

 

[Peguero]

where?

 

[Heathen Dawn]

If God told me to kill my son, yes Id do it. Just like Abraham was going to kill his son because God commanded.

Then you’re an immoral person. You’re no different than the SS men, or the Islamic 9/11 terrorists. They all blindly obeyed their higher authority.

Why does hell exist?

Because it’s the best way to maximise the followers of your religion.

comon, he offers paradise for eternity, or Hell forever for not accepting one thing. What I find funny is people ignore the fact that If your God and you offer these 2 things and people ignorently take the path that leads to hell, instead of the truth, then hey thats there problem because that is the path they took, not Gods fault. People forget the penaltys and realitys. We are like little ants to God. We are nothing compared to him, it just so happens he loves us enopuh to actually have himself tortured and killed for us. He created us, so he can do whatever he wants with us, just like how he does whatever he wants with his angels.

And Christians say it’s the pagans who worship demons...

If you were God, you would do the wisest and and most logical thing you could think of. Which would mean you would make a hell.

Hell is not the wisest and most logical thing I could think of—it’s the cruelest and most manipulative thing I can think of. The truth is there is no hell, there is only purgatory for wrongdoers to be cleaned in. Painful but temporary. The justice and mercy of the Creator far towers above the man-made, demonic “justice” of Yahweh.

 

[ravenwolf]

If God told me to kill my son, yes Id do it. Just like Abraham was going to kill his son because God commanded.

YEs, you say you would but you do not know if you really would. You proabably dont have a son(im assuming since your a wee bit young for having a child). So to say you would without a doubt is completely not true, becasue you wouldnt know exactly what it would be like in such a predicament, first off because you dont have a son so you dont know or feel a bond withthis imaginary son you have, and second of all, well you are not even in the situation. And last, I dont know what truely loving parent could kill there own son, it is barbaric. And it is not something i believe the Divine would command soemone to do.

Why does hell exist? Because God is A JUST GOD. comon, he offers paradise for eternity, or Hell forever for not accepting one thing. What I find funny is people ignore the fact that If your God and you offer these 2 things and people ignorently take the path that leads to hell, instead of the truth, then hey thats there problem because that is the path they took, not Gods fault. People forget the penaltys and realitys. We are like little ants to God. We are nothing compared to him, it just so happens he loves us enopuh to actually have himself tortured and killed for us. He created us, so he can do whatever he wants with us, just like how he does whatever he wants with his angels.

That does not seem just to me at all.
It is not ignorance to not beleive soemthing that sounds totoally unjust and unreasonable. Peopel who choose not to beleive in Christianities doctirne dont do it out of ignorance, but out of the fact that they dont agree with it. Which is why im not a Christian becasue I dont agree with the teachings. Not becasue I'm ignorant, ignorance is simply not being educated about something and then making a decision out of lack of knowledge.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[Peguero]

They are 3 in the bible where we get this idea of hell.
1.In Hebrew-Sheol= it means a grave/pit
2.In Greek-Hades=it also means grave
3.In Greek-Gehena=this is were we get the idea of a tormented place. Gehena was a mountain near Jerusalem where they burn the dead bodies, because they did not have the money for a proper buriel.