Why.

[christianmomof3]

Lordy, you know what I'm asking. Is someone who espouses Mormon beliefs a Christian?

ah, now that is a different thing than just a blanket statement that all Mormons are not Christians. Now it is down to each individual. Again, I cannot judge who is saved and who is not. Only God knows people's hearts and only He knows who is saved and who is not. It is likely that someone who claims to believe all the tennants of the Mormon religion is not saved. But, that does not mean that that individual may not later become saved. And, it does not necessarily mean that person is not saved, although it is likely that they are not. I believe that they do use the Bible in addition to the Book of Mormon and everything that one needs to know about the Lord is available in the Bible. So, I would still say that while the teachings of the Mormon religion are not proper teachings about the Lord, it still may be possible for some people to come to know Him and to be saved within that group.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

ah, now that is a different thing than just a blanket statement that all Mormons are not Christians. Now it is down to each individual. Again, I cannot judge who is saved and who is not. Only God knows people's hearts and only He knows who is saved and who is not. It is likely that someone who claims to believe all the tennants of the Mormon religion is not saved. But, that does not mean that that individual may not later become saved. And, it does not necessarily mean that person is not saved, although it is likely that they are not. I believe that they do use the Bible in addition to the Book of Mormon and everything that one needs to know about the Lord is available in the Bible. So, I would still say that while the teachings of the Mormon religion are not proper teachings about the Lord, it still may be possible for some people to come to know Him and to be saved within that group.

You are confusing salvation with being Christian. They are not synonymous.

Where is The Church's teaching that says only Christians will be in Heaven?

Forgive me...

 

[Uphill Battle]

That would be because they aren't Christians. Nor are the Muslims.

Perhaps you mean that you don't call their salvation into question.

Forgive me...

no, I mean what I said.

do you know what the word Christian means?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Do you know what the word Christian means?

I guess I'm clueless as to the meaning... perhaps The Church of Antioch failed to explain it to me fully over these past several years.

Act 11:26

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

We are not fit to define this, but she is.

BTW ~ The word actually means "little-christs".

Forgive me...

 

[jckstraw72]

this is ridonkulous. we all know that saying Jesus isnt God is NOT a Christian belief. y'all are "elitists" when y'all want to be, and you're ecumenical when you want to be. we have a more absolutist rather than relativistic view of truth though.

 

[E.C.]

There is no commanded format for Christians.

there is Traditional format.

there is legalistic format.

there is chosen format.

there is lack of format.

there is no biblical command to write a script for worship, and follow it.

There was only one format from your list: the Liturgical.

Protestants with their anger towards the Roman Church threw this baby out with the bathwater.

There is a verse from St. Paul that reads something like "keep to what I taught ya". Not "abandon everything out of anger".

Your particular religious institution - the Orthodox church refuses to share communion with others.

And with good reason.

Do you share the Body and Blood with those that say Christ was not God and that His Mother was a harlot?

Worship style? You think Christ came to fulfil WORSHIP STYLE?

Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. Worship included.

That is part of why St. James was killed by the Jews.

you know, ordinarily, I respect the EO. I cannot respect this though. It is, I'm afraid, stuck up and elitist. They call themselves the True Church, they exclude all others,

Rome left the Church. Protestants left Rome.

You both removed yourselves from His Church.

Plain and simple.

Don't believe? Look at history.

they deny communion with others because they don't neccessarily accept every caveat of what you believe, and then turn around and say "but God saves whom he wills."

The caveat line is a bit much. There isn't even agreement on what calendar to use!

But the second part is true. God allows whomever He wishes to be in Communion with Him. We have no say, yet we try.

You are denying other people who place their faith in Jesus Christ as part of his body, and then placing them under the same holy lottery system of God might save them that you do with false religions of the world.

Strong language.

Others do not believe that Christ was 100% God, 100% Man, united in one body, with a divine will, a human will and able to venerate in iconography.

In fact, iconoclasm is one of the most practiced of heresies within Protestantism.

But what would I know? I'm only a, what you called, elitist. So obviously I must know absolutely nothing about anything.

not you. Just the whole thing. The whole EO attitude of placing eveyone who's not a carbon copy of them outside the body of Christ, and then pretending they don't judge.

We don't.

Have I ever said that you are going to hell and have lost any hope for salvation for not being Orthodox? Nope. However, I've been told the same thing directly to my face by Protestants and Roman Catholic.

Have I ever said that you are so stooped in error that you have no hope in correcting? Nope. Yet again, I've been told this directly to my face by your brethren.

Have I ever said that because your worship style does not jive with the letter of the Bible that you are condemned automatically? Nope. Again, directly to my face by your brethren.

Have I ever called you an idol worshiper or a cannibal or a necromancer? Nope. Your brethren have called me those things time and time again with no remorse.

Tell me, who are the elitists?

yes, indeed. so its ok for Protestants to say Mormon beliefs are not Christian, but if a Catholic or Orthodox say that certain Protestant beliefs are not Christian then we're just being crazy elitists.

Don't we all love double standards?

I don't automatically reject all JW and Mormons as non-Christian.

Really? I'm sorry, they don't believe that Christ was 100% God as well as 100% man.

You are confusing salvation with being Christian. They are not synonymous.

Where is The Church's teaching that says only Christians will be in Heaven?

Forgive me...

That's what I've wondered for a long time.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I guess I'm clueless as to the meaning... perhaps The Church of Antioch failed to explain it to me fully over these past several years.

perhaps.

Act 11:26

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

We are not fit to define this, but she is.

BTW ~ The word actually means "little-christs".

Forgive me...

or, more directly, Christ's people.

you know that every Mormon isn't one of his people? Then how do you know that they aren't "Christian?"

It's just a word anyways. One that I am less and less eager to associate myself with.

this is ridonkulous. we all know that saying Jesus isnt God is NOT a Christian belief. y'all are "elitists" when y'all want to be, and you're ecumenical when you want to be. we have a more absolutist rather than relativistic view of truth though.

no, it's not a Christian belief. And according to you, it's not a Christian belief to reject real presence. and according to another, it's not a Christian belief to pray to saints. and to another, etc etc ad nauseum.

it isn't a relativistic view of truth. There is one truth. Some have more than others.

It's simply that I won't look at Mormons, and say nope, none are Christians.

There was only one format from your list: the Liturgical.

Protestants with their anger towards the Roman Church threw this baby out with the bathwater.

that's what I hear frequently, anyways.

There is a verse from St. Paul that reads something like "keep to what I taught ya". Not "abandon everything out of anger".

To have "abandoned" any of it, I'd have to have accepted it in the first place, wouldn't you say?

And with good reason.

Do you share the Body and Blood with those that say Christ was not God and that His Mother was a harlot?

ah, that's right, we all say that. we're devils in three piece suits.

Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. Worship included.

That is part of why St. James was killed by the Jews.

uh huh.

Rome left the Church. Protestants left Rome.

You both removed yourselves from His Church.

I've never left either. I've just never been a member of your "we're the only true church" club.

Plain and simple.

Don't believe? Look at history.

who's history?

The caveat line is a bit much. There isn't even agreement on what calendar to use!

But the second part is true. God allows whomever He wishes to be in Communion with Him. We have no say, yet we try.

so then, it's good enough for God to state who will be in communion with him, but for YOU, they must be Orthodox.

Strong language.

Others do not believe that Christ was 100% God, 100% Man, united in one body, with a divine will, a human will and able to venerate in iconography.

In fact, iconoclasm is one of the most practiced of heresies within Protestantism.

But what would I know? I'm only a, what you called, elitist. So obviously I must know absolutely nothing about anything.

don't let your pride be wounded. What we heretics say shouldn't bother you at all.

We don't.

Have I ever said that you are going to hell and have lost any hope for salvation for not being Orthodox? Nope. However, I've been told the same thing directly to my face by Protestants and Roman Catholic.

Have I ever said that you are so stooped in error that you have no hope in correcting? Nope. Yet again, I've been told this directly to my face by your brethren.

sorry that you had to put up with that. That was them, not me.

Have I ever said that because your worship style does not jive with the letter of the Bible that you are condemned automatically? Nope. Again, directly to my face by your brethren.

same thing.

Have I ever called you an idol worshiper or a cannibal or a necromancer? Nope. Your brethren have called me those things time and time again with no remorse.

no doubt.

Tell me, who are the elitists?

they would qualify as well.

Don't we all love double standards?

not particularly.

Really? I'm sorry, they don't believe that Christ was 100% God as well as 100% man.

irrelevant to whether or not some of them are Christian. You are talking about the Mormon party line, not the indivdual heart of each Mormon.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I've got houseguests... I'll be back to play later.

Forgive me...

 

[E.C.]

that's what I hear frequently, anyways.

Must be some truth to it.

To have "abandoned" any of it, I'd have to have accepted it in the first place, wouldn't you say?

You didn't accept it. Your Reforming ancestors originally did, but out of their anger threw it out.

They threw out something that was taught by a man who was threw off his horse by Christ!

ah, that's right, we all say that. we're devils in three piece suits.

That doesn't answer the question.

I've never left either. I've just never been a member of your "we're the only true church" club.

So, there are many "True Churches"? Not one?

Are there many Gods or just one? Is there not one Christ who setup but one Church via His Apostles?

who's history?

History that isn't tainted by Protestants that let their anger cloud their sense of being.

so then, it's good enough for God to state who will be in communion with him, but for YOU, they must be Orthodox.

You are arguing two different things. Like pizza and ice cream.

don't let your pride be wounded. What we heretics say shouldn't bother you at all.

It does when the killing and proselytization of my fellow Orthodox is condoned and supported by governments that follow the Reformer's Faith and not God's.

sorry that you had to put up with that. That was them, not me.

If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

It has happened here, you've seen it. What did you do? Did you defend?
I don't think you did.

same thing.

no doubt.

they would qualify as well.

Again, are you part of the problem or the solution? Or will you play the usual part of Canadians and accept hatred towards anything conservative-ish?

not particularly.

Than quit accepting them.

irrelevant to whether or not some of them are Christian. You are talking about the Mormon party line, not the indivdual heart of each Mormon.

I have no problems with the individual Mormon if, like every other human, they do not push their faith on mine.
But if the discussion of religions and faith comes up, the gloves come off.

Either way, if someone accepts the Mormon party line and lives the Mormon way, they are not living the Christian way. There is no gray line here.

 

[christianmomof3]

You are confusing salvation with being Christian. They are not synonymous.

Where is The Church's teaching that says only Christians will be in Heaven?

Forgive me...

hmm, there are many different meanings of "Christian" and of "salvation" it can get confusing sometimes since they mean different things to different people.
Where in the Bible does it say that anyone will "be in heaven"? And where did the teaching that salvation is synonymous with "going to heaven" come from?

You are arguing two different things. Like pizza and ice cream.


It does when the killing and proselytization of my fellow Orthodox is condoned and supported by governments that follow the Reformer's Faith and not God's.

pizza and ice cream are both yummy
I am sorry that there has been killing and persecution of Orthodox. I would imagine though that my people - the Jews - have endured much more.
I do not think the persecution is from those who are genuinely redeemed and regenerated Christians who are living and expressing Christ.

 

[E.C.]

pizza and ice cream are both yummy
I am sorry that there has been killing and persecution of Orthodox. I would imagine though that my people - the Jews - have endured much more.
I do not think the persecution is from those who are genuinely redeemed and regenerated Christians who are living and expressing Christ.

The main difference is the Jews have experienced it for a longer time.

Protestants forget their own history. Sweden, a world power some centuries ago, conquered Finland and persecuted the existing Orthodox population and supported Lutheranism.

President McKinley takes the cake. He divided up Alaska and gave areas to different Protestant groups for the sole purpose of proselytizing the Orthodox Natives. Even in the 1950s, Coast Guardsmen would use the icons in churches as target practice.

Has there ever been an apology? Any show of remorse? Nope.

I have to hand it to the Jews, as a people, for surviving for a number of millenia. The only thing that disappoints me is the Israeli government.
But that's a whole different ballpark.

 

[christianmomof3]

The main difference is the Jews have experienced it for a longer time.

Protestants forget their own history. Sweden, a world power some centuries ago, conquered Finland and persecuted the existing Orthodox population and supported Lutheranism.

President McKinley takes the cake. He divided up Alaska and gave areas to different Protestant groups for the sole purpose of proselytizing the Orthodox Natives. Even in the 1950s, Coast Guardsmen would use the icons in churches as target practice.

Has there ever been an apology? Any show of remorse? Nope.

I have to hand it to the Jews, as a people, for surviving for a number of millenia. The only thing that disappoints me is the Israeli government.
But that's a whole different ballpark.

So, do you blame all current "Protestants" for what some of them have done in the past?
Do I get blamed then too since you consider me a Protestant?
I am actually a Jew.
But, I am now a born again Christian.
I am not a member of the Orthodox or RCC religions so you consider me a Protestant.
Do I need to appologise for what other non-Orthodox and non-RCC Christians have done in the past?
Should I know about and take blame for that history?

 

[E.C.]

So, do you blame all current "Protestants" for what some of them have done in the past?

I blame them for doing things that they've done in the past and continue to do because they dump their history.
In short, they forget their history and are repeating it.

Do I get blamed then too since you consider me a Protestant?

I am actually a Jew.
But, I am now a born again Christian.

Really? You had me confused there for a while!

Nah, you haven't closedmindedly condemned me for not being Protestant. Actually, I'm surprised because you actually ask questions in a not-baiting-to-ambush type of fashion.

I am not a member of the Orthodox or RCC religions so you consider me a Protestant.

Do I need to appologise for what other non-Orthodox and non-RCC Christians have done in the past?
Should I know about and take blame for that history?

You have no reason to. You weren't there. And as far as I've seen you haven't supported any proselytization in places that are largely non-Protestant, such as Greece.

I try not to blame. But since I am human, like everyone else, I fall short of the mark. So, I try to keep the blame limited to the leadership, not individuals, to try and not fall so far from the mark.

I am a lover of history. History is how I came to realize that the Orthodox Church is the True Church, the New Testament Church, the Early Christian Church, etc etc. In knowing history, I know why things are the way they are and hopefully how to change them. But when I see people not only be ignorant of their own history, but also shudder at the idea of hearing something outside of their comfort zone; than the fur is rubbed the wrong way.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Must be some truth to it.

not neccessarily. I'm sure you've heard often enough from the hyperfundementalists that you're an unsaved heathen. repetition of that sentiment doesn't make it true, does it?

You didn't accept it. Your Reforming ancestors originally did, but out of their anger threw it out.

They threw out something that was taught by a man who was threw off his horse by Christ!

possibly. I wasn't there.

That doesn't answer the question.

I'vc never MET someone that called Mary that. Nor have I ever had occasion to share communion with a Mormon, I'm not Mormon, they wouldn't let me in anyways. (at least ONE similarity between you and them, it would seem.)

So, there are many "True Churches"? Not one?

no, just many that claim the distiction.

History that isn't tainted by Protestants that let their anger cloud their sense of being.

ah. I see. In otherwords, YOUR history.

You are arguing two different things. Like pizza and ice cream.

no, I'm not. The Orthodox will look at the world and say "God may have some of these Heterodox in communion with him." But turn around and say that they are not worthy to be in communion with THEM.

It does when the killing and proselytization of my fellow Orthodox is condoned and supported by governments that follow the Reformer's Faith and not God's.

which, has nothing to do with me. I'm neither a part of government, nor a proselytizer of those who already know Christ.

If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

It has happened here, you've seen it. What did you do? Did you defend?
I don't think you did.

you could look up all my posts and find out, I guess. I'm sure I'd never have done it enough to meet your satisfaction.

Again, are you part of the problem or the solution? Or will you play the usual part of Canadians and accept hatred towards anything conservative-ish?

you're taking cracks at that now? You are slipping into a vastly petty area.

Imagine an American trying to give Canadians lessons on social graces.

Than quit accepting them.

I'm not. But you're convinced I am. Which, I suppose, is the same as doing it. the Orthodox have spoken.

I have no problems with the individual Mormon if, like every other human, they do not push their faith on mine.
But if the discussion of religions and faith comes up, the gloves come off.

I'm sure they do.

Either way, if someone accepts the Mormon party line and lives the Mormon way, they are not living the Christian way. There is no gray line here.

it isn't a matter of Grey line. Perhaps you should read what I posted about it before. Although, I don't suppose it makes much of a difference.

 

[E.C.]

not neccessarily. I'm sure you've heard often enough from the hyperfundementalists that you're an unsaved heathen. repetition of that sentiment doesn't make it true, does it?

Difference. I've been told that by Protestants.

You've heard from Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox; two groups in schism for a thousand years (give or take a few) and can still have a boiled debate as if it were yesterday.

possibly. I wasn't there.

Nor was I when the pope removed himself from the Church. Yet, we still follow one legacy or another.

I'vc never MET someone that called Mary that. Nor have I ever had occasion to share communion with a Mormon, I'm not Mormon, they wouldn't let me in anyways. (at least ONE similarity between you and them, it would seem.)

I actually have to give them a little credit. I know not of any other faith/religion/Church/cult that could assembly line and distribute so many articles of clothing to so many with such good efficiency!

no, just many that claim the distiction.

Only about three to five. About 30,000 others just claim to be "the way".

ah. I see. In otherwords, YOUR history.

Nope.
Try Eusebius. Or Timothy Ware. I could name a few others if you'd like, both pre and post Schism.

As well as a number of academic.

no, I'm not. The Orthodox will look at the world and say "God may have some of these Heterodox in communion with him." But turn around and say that they are not worthy to be in communion with THEM.

I think that "will have" would be more accurate. Since we know quite a bit, our level of expected responsibility is higher than that of, let's say, a man on a deserted island since birth. We have more to be accountable for than the average Protestant since we treasure our history, Tradition and roots. Since we know more, we are expected to act it.
My priest once said that one of his professors at seminary would say at the end of the class "Now you know and you have no excuse".

which, has nothing to do with me. I'm neither a part of government, nor a proselytizer of those who already know Christ.

But do you sit and watch as Protestants proselytize those already Christian? Or do you participate in the act?

you could look up all my posts and find out, I guess. I'm sure I'd never have done it enough to meet your satisfaction.

I try not to judge. However, it always pains me how polarized this forum is between Rome, Protestants and Orthodox. The only time there is ever some quasi-unity is when one of the three is on the ground being stomped upon by the other two.

It would be nice, if whenever one is being stomped by the two, if someone from one of the other camps would come out and at least say "hey, take a break".

you're taking cracks at that now? You are slipping into a vastly petty area.

Imagine an American trying to give Canadians lessons on social graces.

The difference is that Canadians (at large) are much more liberal than Americans and will thus attack conservative-esque ideal or institutions. I used to watch the CBC for a while, but got sick of it for that just reason.
Americans, on the other hand, are the world's teenagers that think they know everything and thus attack anything that is either considered "ultra liberal" or "ultra conservative".
That being said, we could end up in the same boat one day.

I'm not. But you're convinced I am. Which, I suppose, is the same as doing it. the Orthodox have spoken.
I'm sure they do.

Examine yourself and how you react to posts made by others. I mean, truly examine and try to see how others would react. Would I dare go into OBOB and start posting about how Rome never cared for the Ecumenical Councils? No, but that is something which I hold to be true-ish. Would I dare go into the fundy areas and post about how in error they are for being like the pharisees of Christ's time? No, but again that is something begging for a beating or at least a very stern thread.

I don't post here as much as I used to because, frankly, I'm getting tired of seeing the hypocrisy in people saying that they love others, yet attack both individuals and institutions. Yes, I am more than guilty of this.
The main problem is that no one sees what they themselves are guilty of.

it isn't a matter of Grey line. Perhaps you should read what I posted about it before. Although, I don't suppose it makes much of a difference.

Which post was it?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I tire of hearing this Protestants aren't worthy stuff.

It's wrong.

It's not Orthodox.

It's not Christian.

Protestant's make good Orthodox Christians.

Forgive me...

 

[christianmomof3]

I tire of hearing this Protestants aren't worthy stuff.

It's wrong.

It's not Orthodox.

It's not Christian.

Protestant's make good Orthodox Christians.

Forgive me...

When Saul was on his way to Damascus, Jesus asked Saul "why are you persecuting Me?" He did not ask why Saul was persecuting His followers, but suggested that His followers whom Saul was persecuting were His members - part of the corporate Christ, the Body of Christ.
We should be careful even on the internet on this message board that we are not persecuting Christ.

You have no reason to. You weren't there. And as far as I've seen you haven't supported any proselytization in places that are largely non-Protestant, such as Greece.

But do you sit and watch as Protestants proselytize those already Christian? Or do you participate in the act?

I saw that you mentioned proselytizing twice, so I looked it up.
I found this:

Proselytism is the practice of attempting to convert people to another opinion and, particularly, another religion. The word proselytism is derived ultimately from the Greek language prefix 'pros' (towards) and the verb 'erchomai' (I come). Incidentally, "Proselytism is prohibited" in Greece, according to the constitution of Greece. Historically in the New Testament, the word proselyte denoted a person who had converted to the Jewish religion. Though the word proselytism was originally tied to Christianity, it is also used to refer to other religions' attempts to convert people to their beliefs or even any attempt to convert people to another point of view, religious or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytize

and also I found this there:

Some Christians define "proselytism" more narrowly as the attempt to convert people from one Christian tradition to another; those who use the term in this way generally view the practice as illegitimate and in contrast to evangelism, which is converting non-Christians to Christianity.

I find it quite interesting. I also saw somewhere else on this board Orthodox saying things about Protestant proselytyzing.
I do not understand that.
Are Orthodox and Protestants not all Christians?
When Protestants preach the gospel, they are sharing Christ, not necessarily their denominational beliefs, but just the gospel - they are evangelizing.

If someone does not know Christ, then we should share Him with them.
If they already know Christ then it would seem to me that they would just say Hallelujah brother! I know Christ too! Isn't He wonderful? Let's enjoy Him together!

I do not think it is presumptuous to share Christ even with people who already meet or have met in the past in a Christian group - whether it be a Protestant one, Orthodox, or RCC. There are nominal Christians - those who are Christian in name only, but who do not really know the Lord, within most if not every Christian group.
They are often thrilled to have someone share Christ with them since they did not know Him before.
Simply going to a "church" or being a member of a religious group does not automatically mean that person knows the Lord.

My husband grew up a Lutheran, but had never heard of being born again or been led to Christ until he was 17 years old and that was by other Christians who were not Lutherans. That does not mean that all Lutherans do not preach Christ or share about being born again, but the ones my husband grew up with did not and he did not come to know the Lord and become born again until some Christians from outside of his particular denomination shared Christ with him. And he was thrilled to come to know Christ. His is not an uncommon experience. That is why we should share Christ with everyone.

To share Christ with others regardless of whether they meet with a particular church or not is not persecuting them or trying to harm them. It is sharing Christ - the most wonderful thing in the world we can do! If I already know Christ and someone tries to preach the gospel to me I don't tell them to go away because I already know Him. I rejoice in the Lord together with them.

 

[E.C.]

I find it quite interesting. I also saw somewhere else on this board Orthodox saying things about Protestant proselytyzing.
I do not understand that.
Are Orthodox and Protestants not all Christians?
When Protestants preach the gospel, they are sharing Christ, not necessarily their denominational beliefs, but just the gospel - they are evangelizing.

Both Orthodox and Protestants are Christian. The problem is this: many Protestants have a hatred towards the Roman Church and thusly, anything liturgical or appearing to be "Roman Catholic-like".

It is unfortunate that zeal blinds so much. The part that angers me in the case of Greece, is that so-called missionaries claim that everything that is Christian that the Greeks have believed since the days of St. Paul is all wrong and thus the Orthodox Greeks are not Christian.
With the case of Alaska, things went further. Not only were the Orthodox Native Alaskans treated as not Christian because they were predominately Orthodox, not Protestant; many bad things happened.
I have heard stories of Native Alaskan Orthodox families having to put the kids into orphanages and then the kids having their crosses and things taken away and destroyed because "You are not Orthodox anymore". That is an example of proselytizing.

If someone does not know Christ, then we should share Him with them.

If they already know Christ then it would seem to me that they would just say Hallelujah brother! I know Christ too! Isn't He wonderful? Let's enjoy Him together!

I agree with the first part, but when people say that because you are not a Protestant you don't know Christ, than my zeal goes off the charts and immediately I think something is not right here.

I do not think it is presumptuous to share Christ even with people who already meet or have met in the past in a Christian group - whether it be a Protestant one, Orthodox, or RCC. There are nominal Christians - those who are Christian in name only, but who do not really know the Lord, within most if not every Christian group.

They are often thrilled to have someone share Christ with them since they did not know Him before.

There are CINOs (Christian In Name Only) in all groups. Yet because one may have more than the other, does not mean that the whole is CINO.

Yet I am still confused here. If someone is already Christian, has the piety of Mary, lives it and goes to church; how then do they not know Christ?

 

[katherine2001]

Exactly, Constantine. I remember a lot of Christian groups going to Greece during the 2004 Summer Olympics. They were saying that they didn't want to convert Orthodox to Protestantism, they just wanted to make them stronger Orthodox. Well, they were either lying to themselves or to the rest of us (probably both). There aren't enough people in this country that are nominal Christians. Those that are pastors/ministers should be worrying about the people in their own congregations and doing all they can to make them live for Christ. Those are the ones that they are accountable to God for and will answer to Him for (Hebrews 13:25). Why go halfway around the world to take care of nominal Orthodox when there are nominal people in your own churches? Let the Orthodox priests worry about their own nominal people and your churches worry about their own.

 

[christianmomof3]

Yet I am still confused here. If someone is already Christian, has the piety of Mary, lives it and goes to church; how then do they not know Christ?

EC, didn't you used to belong to the RCC church? Why did you change religious groups? Do you feel that you knew Christ when you met with the RCC the way that you know Him now?
I have no idea - just asking.
For people to say that they are "Christian" means different things to different people. Many people "go to church" every once in a while or perhaps on a regular basis and think that going and sitting and listening to someone talk about the Lord makes them a Christian.
Other people think because they put up a tree and decorate it at Christmas that makes them a Christian. However, does that mean that they are born again?
Does it mean that Christ lives in them?
I know that for my husband, growing up going to the Lutheran church - church was where they went on Sundays. It was what his family did, but it did not lead Him to know the Lord. In fact, he has a vivid memory of a pastor telling a story about how there would be golf in heaven if you like playing golf and how even as a child around the age of 12 or so my husband thought that concept was ridiculous.
He does remember that at one point the church they went to got a new young preacher and he was preaching something different - more living probably, and his parents were not comfortable with the new guy and they quit that church and went to another one.

I know nothing about what you mean by "the piety of Mary".

But, it is certainly possible and probable and happens all of the time that people go to "churches" without knowing the Lord.