Why would God create a flawed creation?

[Archaeopteryx]

I did not miss your point, you are again on the verge of making pompous suggestions on what God should do. For that matter, God has already intervened in the natural course of events with a plan of salvation. It doesn't matter what you think about that.

Yes, we've already discussed this salvation plan.

Many purposes,

Such as?

Salvation and eternal life is the outcome of the calamity. That calamity changed not only Job, but also his friends, and his wife and strengthened their faith.

His family certainly were changed: they were killed. Apparently that's okay though, because at least Job's faith was strengthened. How callous.

 

[WoundedDeep]

His family certainly were changed: they were killed.

You have repeated that countless times, are you not tired of it?

You have twisted my words again and again and used them as an occasion to mock Someone whom you neither believe exists nor understand intimately. Is that the best you can do? Is that the only motivation behind your replies?

If I were to use the same kind of attitude you used to accuse God to accuse a family member of yours, I would have expected myself to be censored within a minute. Yet, I endured your mindless accusations against God for what, more than 2 days?

Sorry, but I am not interested in such kind of discussions. Its not only repugnant and meaningless to me, it makes me feel I am trying to reason with a madman.

 

[WoundedDeep]

Who says God wanted That? I was taught He had to let satan because Job opened the door by Fear.

I don't see any biblical texts to support what you were taught.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You have repeated that countless times, are you not tired of it?

You have twisted my words again and again and used them as an occasion to mock Someone whom you neither believe exists nor understand intimately. Is that the best you can do? Is that the only motivation behind your replies?

If I were to use the same kind of attitude you used to accuse God to accuse a family member of yours, I would have expected myself to be censored within a minute. Yet, I endured your mindless accusations against God for what, more than 2 days?

Sorry, but I am not interested in such kind of discussions. Its not only repugnant and meaningless to me, it makes me feel I am trying to reason with a madman.

No one is forcing you to respond.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You have repeated that countless times, are you not tired of it?

It's the plain and Biblical truth; who can be tired of that?

You have twisted my words again and again and used them as an occasion to mock Someone whom you neither believe exists nor understand intimately. Is that the best you can do? Is that the only motivation behind your replies?

If I were to use the same kind of attitude you used to accuse God to accuse a family member of yours, I would have expected myself to be censored within a minute. Yet, I endured your mindless accusations against God for what, more than 2 days?

Sorry, but I am not interested in such kind of discussions. Its not only repugnant and meaningless to me, it makes me feel I am trying to reason with a madman.

Address the post, not the poster. If you can't argue against his point, personally attacks will not help.

 

[Messy]

I don't see any biblical texts to support what you were taught.

Because He Said: Look they are in your hands, like: look, there is an opening you didn't see.
http://change.creflodollarministries.org/site/1031/gracetoliveafearlesslife.aspx

The book of Job shows us that fear is a connector to the things we don’t want to happen to us. Job 3:25 says, “For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.” Job feared that something terrible would happen to his children. He cut a covenant with God every day out of his fear for their safety. Unfortunately, the very thing he feared would happen, did—his children all died. Not only that, Job also lost his possessions. The enemy was allowed access into his life because of his own fears.

 

[WoundedDeep]

It's the plain and Biblical truth; who can be tired of that?

Address the post, not the poster. If you can't argue against his point, personally attacks will not help.

It is history, not biblical truth. Can you not tell the difference? Besides, bringing up the same point again and again so that God can be mocked is hardly a discussion, it is downright demeaning.

I have addressed posts of the same content at least twice, but the same content is babbled back at me every time I raise a different point. How would you feel if you told me about your family, and I keep repeating to you how disgusting I feel about some of their acts, when I do not know them in the first place? How would you feel if you keep explaining why they did certain things in certain ways, and yet I insist on mocking at them as though I know them more than you do? No offence meant, but this is the kind of discussion being thrown at me.

 

[WoundedDeep]

Address the post, not the poster. If you can't argue against his point, personally attacks will not help.

This is not even the first thread I had discussions with the same person in question. I believe I have been tolerant enough towards his subtle and repeated attempts at insulting God. If he truly believes God does not exist, why does anything about Him even bother him so much that he feels a need to discredit Him in every single post? Nonsensical at least, pure madness at worst.

 

[WoundedDeep]

No one is forcing you to respond.

Last I recall, it was you who initiated the response. I was trying to put the past behind and have a good discussion with you, hoping that you will stop your habit of trying to discredit God in every post. Guess I was dead wrong.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

This is not even the first thread I had discussions with the same person in question. I believe I have been tolerant enough towards his subtle and repeated attempts at insulting God. If he truly believes God does not exist, why does anything about Him even bother him so much that he feels a need to discredit Him in every single post? Nonsensical at least, pure madness at worst.

I'm responding to your claims in an open forum. What's nonsensical about that? If you don't want people to respond to your posts, then don't post.

 

[WoundedDeep]

I'm responding to your claims in an open forum. What's nonsensical about that? If you don't want people to respond to your posts, then don't post.

This is a Christian forum. What right do you have to tell me not to post? Ridiculous.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

It is history, not biblical truth. Can you not tell the difference? Besides, bringing up the same point again and again so that God can be mocked is hardly a discussion, it is downright demeaning.

I have addressed posts of the same content at least twice, but the same content is babbled back at me every time I raise a different point. How would you feel if you told me about your family, and I keep repeating to you how disgusting I feel about some of their acts, when I do not know them in the first place? How would you feel if you keep explaining why they did certain things in certain ways, and yet I insist on mocking at them as though I know them more than you do? No offence meant, but this is the kind of discussion being thrown at me.

You seem to have difficulty with the fact that others consider the Biblical God's conduct to be appalling.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

This is a Christian forum. What right do you have to tell me not to post? Ridiculous.

I didn't tell you not to post.

 

[WoundedDeep]

Because He Said: Look they are in your hands, like: look, there is an opening you didn't see.
http://change.creflodollarministries.org/site/1031/gracetoliveafearlesslife.aspx

The book of Job shows us that fear is a connector to the things we don’t want to happen to us. Job 3:25 says, “For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.” Job feared that something terrible would happen to his children. He cut a covenant with God every day out of his fear for their safety. Unfortunately, the very thing he feared would happen, did—his children all died. Not only that, Job also lost his possessions. The enemy was allowed access into his life because of his own fears.

But before satan was allowed to touch Job and his properties, satan said God had put a hedge around Job all this while. Clearly, his fears did not allow for demonic attacks for a rather long period of time.

 

[brixken7]

would like to know your definition of flawed, other than that are those the only three possibilities.

he could have produced a perfect race of robots, is that what he wanted, when he created in his image he created beings with thought, creativity, freedom of choice and will, if they are flaws perhaps all life is flawed.

............................................................

Is anyone interested in what GOD specifically says about His "flawed" creation, or do we just want to focus on the notions of flawed human beings? If the latter, skip this posting.

The creation of God is and was a flawed creation, otherwise sin and evil would not prevail throughout the history of mankind --- and its purpose has nothing to do with robots or man's so-called 'free will'. For some reason professing Christians always want to talk about "robots" and "free will" when neither term is in the New Testament. Not even "freedom of choice." Actually, the Bible predicts that REAL freedom is in the future (Romans 8:21), but for now "man's goings are of the Lord" (Proverbs 20:24). In fact, God's Word repeatedly says that "All is of God". This means, of course, that God is the ultimate creator of evil, and He truly is -- as He Himself says in Isaiah 45:7. So what is God's purpose of evil, suffering, and humiliation?

Why would God create a flawed creation?

A major clue lies in Saul, the "foremost of sinners" (I Timothy 1:15; CLNT). The very first thing that God did to convert him was to humble him by making him as helpless and dependent as a little child. "Saul was helped up from the ground" and "led by the hand" by his associates (Acts 9:8; God's Word Translation), having been struck blind by God for 3 days. One is reminded of Christ's words:

"The truth is, you must change your thinking and become like little children. If you don't do this, you will never enter God's kingdom" (Matthew 18:3; Easy-to-Read Version).

The "change" that Christ was speaking of here concerned a man becoming humble and childlike (verse 4), a change God is able to accomplish with all people (Daniel 4:37) using Satan as His tool. And God begins this conversion process by giving us all a "body of our humiliation" (Philippians 3:21; CLNT) and He uses many multiple ways to teach us humility through suffering and humiliation. The key scripture to all of this is in Ecclesiastes 1:13 and 3:10:

"It is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it" (Concordant version and the 1599 Geneva Bible).

-- brixken7

 

[bhsmte]

This is a Christian forum. What right do you have to tell me not to post? Ridiculous.

Not what he said.

He said, if you post here, people are going to respond who may disagree with you.

If you don't want to deal with people who disagree with you, maybe it is best to post in another area of CF, where only Christians can post.

 

[WoundedDeep]

............................................................The creation of God is and was a flawed creation, otherwise sin and evil would not prevail throughout the history of mankind --- and its purpose has nothing to do with robots or man's so-called 'free will'. For some reason professing Christians always want to talk about "robots" and "free will" when neither term is in the New Testament. Not even "freedom of choice." Actually, the Bible predicts that REAL freedom is in the future (Romans 8:21), but for now "[/B]man's goings are of the Lord" (Proverbs 20:24). In fact, God's Word repeatedly says that "All is of God". This means, of course, that God is the ultimate creator of evil, and He truly is -- as He Himself says in Isaiah 45:7. So what is God's purpose of evil, suffering, and humiliation?

Where did you get those teachings of yours? They contradict with what the Bible says from the very first sentence.

First, they contradict with the fact that God specifically asked Israel to choose either life or death in the OT (Deuteronomy 30:19), that is an indication of freedom of choice.

Second, the freedom in Romans 8:21 talked about freedom from the bondage of corruption, and not freedom of choice.

Third, Proverbs 20:24 is not interpreted the way you did.

Fourth, Isaiah 45:7 says God sends good times and bad times, and not that He creates moral evil.

Therefore where did you get your biblical support for those statements?

 

[TLK Valentine]

It is history, not biblical truth.

If you call it "history," than you're conceding that it actually happened. As the only source of it is the Bible, then it's "Biblical" history.

If "Biblical truth" doesn't include events that it mentioned which actually happened, then why call it "truth"? What use is it?

Can you not tell the difference?

Pretend I can't. explain it.

Besides, bringing up the same point again and again so that God can be mocked is hardly a discussion, it is downright demeaning.

Any god who needs to be defended from truth has earned and deserves mockery.

I have addressed posts of the same content at least twice, but the same content is babbled back at me every time I raise a different point.

It would appear, then, that you have not addressed the point as satisfactorily as you would like to believe.

How would you feel if you told me about your family, and I keep repeating to you how disgusting I feel about some of their acts, when I do not know them in the first place?

I would probably feel like most anyone on this forum who has a homosexual and/or non-Christian relative -- they get that sort of treatment around here from the Christians all the time.

How would you feel if you keep explaining why they did certain things in certain ways, and yet I insist on mocking at them as though I know them more than you do?

See above.

No offence meant, but this is the kind of discussion being thrown at me.

No fun, is it?

 

[WoundedDeep]

Not what he said.

He said, if you post here, people are going to respond who may disagree with you.

If you don't want to deal with people who disagree with you, maybe it is best to post in another area of CF, where only Christians can post.

He is hinting at that, I can tell.

You can disagree, but raising the same point again and again for the sole purpose of mocking God, is not mere disagreement.

I have no problem dealing with people who have a point of disagreement. I do have issues when people are hell bent on getting personally offensive against a Deity whom they neither acknowledge nor understand. Furthermore, such offences are not even grounded on any true examination of how the Deity is represented in history. That is sacrilege, outrightly demeaning and shows a basic lack of respect for an area of reality where one lacks knowledge about.

 

[bhsmte]

He is hinting at that, I can tell.

Nope. He said if you don't want people to respond to your posts, then don't post.

Pretty simple and you read meaning into it, that wasn't there.