Why would God create a flawed creation?

[Messy]

How do you know that?

Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Genesis 1
And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You guys can be entertained for hours by assuming to know what God did.

We're not assuming anything. We're asking the people who claim to know what God intended to do.

Maybe that time would be better spent in prayer asking God to enlighten you to what He did actually do.

Since you are confident that this approach will work, why don't you do it, and then get back to us with the answer?

 

[Inkfingers]

If you are god, you can make photosynthesis work effectively enough to power a human being.... or an elephant for that matter.

The God you don't believe in (this magical strawman who can do the impossible) I don't believe in either. If God was defined by what you say of Him, I'd be atheist as well. He isn't though - attributing to Him lawlessness is a strawman argument. He works through real not through magical make-believe.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

The God you don't believe in (this magical strawman who can do the impossible) I don't believe in either. If God was defined by what you say of Him, I'd be atheist as well. He isn't though - attributing to Him lawlessness is a strawman argument. He works through real not through magical make-believe.

Is the God you believe in constrained by physical laws?

 

[Dave Ellis]

The God you don't believe in (this magical strawman who can do the impossible) I don't believe in either. If God was defined by what you say of Him, I'd be atheist as well. He isn't though - attributing to Him lawlessness is a strawman argument. He works through real not through magical make-believe.

How do you consider this to be a strawman?

He apparently created all of the physical laws, he created all life, he created photosynthesis.

Why is it unreasonable to think this god of yours is incapable of creating a more powerful or more efficient form of photosynthesis? I can't see how that would even pose a challenge for him

 

[Inkfingers]

Is the God you believe in constrained by physical laws?

He can only do what is real; and what is real happens in an orderly way not through a kind of magic wand "I can do anything I can imagine" kind of way.

Every being acts in accord with its nature; and that includes God as well.

He cannot do the unreal - such as make 1+1 equal anything but 2. He is omnipotent in that He does everything and has everything in hand, not in the nonsense notion that He can do literally anything (such as make 1+1=3).

God is limited in that He can only do what is real.

 

[Gottservant]

I don't show persistent faith in anything. I think having faith based beliefs is fundamentally dishonest.

You're running from the question.

That's not wrong, I'm just saying there's a reason the conversation ends there.

 

[quatona]

He can only do what is real; and what is real happens in an orderly way not through a kind of magic wand "I can do anything I can imagine" kind of way.

Every being acts in accord with its nature; and that includes God as well.

He cannot do the unreal - such as make 1+1 equal anything but 2. He is omnipotent in that He does everything and has everything in hand, not in the nonsense notion that He can do literally anything (such as make 1+1=3).

God is limited in that He can only do what is real.

So just to get that clear:
Unlike we are told by so many theists, God did not create the natural laws but in creating the world was already bound by them?
(And we are not talking 1+1=2 - which is a recurring strawman on your part)
Unlike we are told by so many theists, God can not work miracles?

 

[Gottservant]

So just to get that clear:
Unlike we are told by so many theists, God did not create the natural laws but in creating the world was already bound by them?
(And we are not talking 1+1=2 - which is a recurring strawman on your part)
Unlike we are told by so many theists, God can not work miracles?

There is nothing wrong with that characterisation.

The person is speaking from the position of a relationship, abstractly, about principle, that you may understand (the nature of the relationship).

Where do you get the idea that a simplistic characterization is beneath you? Such that you can rob someone else of their meaning?

 

[quatona]

There is nothing wrong with that characterisation.

The person is speaking from the position of a relationship, abstractly, about principle, that you may understand (the nature of the relationship).

Where do you get the idea that a simplistic characterization is beneath you? Such that you can rob someone else of their meaning?

Apparently you meant to respond to another post(er).

 

[Inkfingers]

Unlike we are told by so many theists, God did not create the natural laws but in creating the world was already bound by them?

As I said, God can only make the real because only the real can exist. If you take this as a restriction on God its because you have not fully grasped what real and unreal actually mean.

Unlike we are told by so many theists, God can not work miracles?

Any "miracle" that actually happens is not a breaking of natural order but simply an action through such mechanism that we do not fully understand yet.

The person who came up with the term "supernatural" should be given a good talking to.

 

[quatona]

As I said, God can only make the real because only the real can exist.

So you don´t want to answer my question?

If you take this as a restriction on God its because you have not fully grasped what real and unreal actually mean.

Well, I asked a specific question, and I am not interested in dedicing if your answer means a restriction for God. I just want your answer.
I didn´t ask about "real" or "unreal".

Any "miracle" that actually happens is not a breaking of natural order but simply an action through such mechanism that we do not fully understand yet.

Now, if an occurance isn´t reconcilable with what we consider natural laws (e.g. the sun standing still for a couple of hours) - in your idea, this means we are just mistaken in our understanding of natural laws?

The person who came up with the term "supernatural" should be given a good talking to.

Good thing I didn´t even mention "supernatural".

 

[Inkfingers]

I answered the question.

Until you grasp the difference between real and unreal you will remain confused on this matter.

Now, if an occurance isn´t reconcilable with what we consider natural laws (e.g. the sun standing still for a couple of hours) - in your idea, this means we are just mistaken in our understanding of natural laws?

If it literally did occur, it would have done so for entirely natural (not supernatural) reasons.

Good thing I didn´t even mention "supernatural".

You implied it, so I cut it off at the pass before it could go further.

Why can I not quote your post? Did you write it in Word?

 

[Gottservant]

In order to understand how God is responsible, you must ask how it is that God shows faith.

Nothing else makes sense.

 

[quatona]

I answered the question.

No, you didn´t. But relax: You are under no obligation to answer it.

Until you grasp the difference between real and unreal you will remain confused on this matter.

And, seeing how you are not willing to explain how you use these words (which btw. weren´t even part of my question), you seem to be quite content with keeping things cryptic.
That´s your prerogative, and I guess it´s your prerogative to blame the audience for it, as well.

 

[Messy]

How do you consider this to be a strawman?

He apparently created all of the physical laws, he created all life, he created photosynthesis.

Why is it unreasonable to think this god of yours is incapable of creating a more powerful or more efficient form of photosynthesis? I can't see how that would even pose a challenge for him

The new world doesn't need the sun or moon.

 

[Colter]

The Infinity of God​

“Touching the Infinite, we cannot find him out. The divine footsteps are not known.” “His understanding is infinite and his greatness is unsearchable.” The blinding light of the Father’s presence is such that to his lowly creatures he apparently “dwells in the thick darkness.” Not only are his thoughts and plans unsearchable, but “he does great and marvelous things without number.” “God is great; we comprehend him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out.” “Will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, the heaven (universe) and the heaven of heavens (universe of universes) cannot contain him.” “How unsearchable are his judgments and his ways past finding out!”

“There is but one God, the infinite Father, who is also a faithful Creator.” “The divine Creator is also the Universal Disposer, the source and destiny of souls. He is the Supreme Soul, the Primal Mind, and the Unlimited Spirit of all creation.” “The great Controller makes no mistakes. He is resplendent in majesty and glory.” “The Creator God is wholly devoid of fear and enmity. He is immortal, eternal, self-existent, divine, and bountiful.” “How pure and beautiful, how deep and unfathomable is the supernal Ancestor of all things!” “The Infinite is most excellent in that he imparts himself to men. He is the beginning and the end, the Father of every good and perfect purpose.” “With God all things are possible; the eternal Creator is the cause of causes.”

Notwithstanding the infinity of the stupendous manifestations of the Father’s eternal and universal personality, he is unqualifiedly self-conscious of both his infinity and eternity; likewise he knows fully his perfection and power. He is the only being in the universe, aside from his divine co-ordinates, who experiences a perfect, proper, and complete appraisal of himself.

The Father constantly and unfailingly meets the need of the differential of demand for himself as it changes from time to time in various sections of his master universe. The great God knows and understands himself; he is infinitely self-conscious of all his primal attributes of perfection. God is not a cosmic accident; neither is he a universe experimenter. The Universe Sovereigns may engage in adventure; the Constellation Fathers may experiment; the system heads may practice; but the Universal Father sees the end from the beginning, and his divine plan and eternal purpose actually embrace and comprehend all the experiments and all the adventures of all his subordinates in every world, system, and constellation in every universe of his vast domains.

No thing is new to God, and no cosmic event ever comes as a surprise; he inhabits the circle of eternity. He is without beginning or end of days. To God there is no past, present, or future; all time is present at any given moment. He is the great and only I AM.

The Universal Father is absolutely and without qualification infinite in all his attributes; and this fact, in and of itself, automatically shuts him off from all direct personal communication with finite material beings and other lowly created intelligences." UB 1955
​

 

[Archaeopteryx]

He can only do what is real; and what is real happens in an orderly way not through a kind of magic wand "I can do anything I can imagine" kind of way.

Every being acts in accord with its nature; and that includes God as well.

He cannot do the unreal - such as make 1+1 equal anything but 2. He is omnipotent in that He does everything and has everything in hand, not in the nonsense notion that He can do literally anything (such as make 1+1=3).

God is limited in that He can only do what is real.

The god you are claiming exists cannot design, cannot fine-tune, and is also apparently restricted to doing only what is physically possible. He cannot change, redefine, or suspend physical laws, even if he wants to. What sort of god is this? Much different to the god most people believe in.

 

[Mickiel]

What I can't figure out, is why God created Primordial man? I know some believers don't believe there were humans before Adam, but I think the archaeology is overwhelming. I think they did exist, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why God created them?

 

[Oafman]

What I can't figure out, is why God created Primordial man? I know some believers don't believe there were humans before Adam, but I think the archaeology is overwhelming. I think they did exist, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why God created them?

The only logical conclusion is that God is not micro-managing the process of evolution.