Why would God create a flawed creation?

[Inkfingers]

So then your god is not omnibenevolent. That's fine.

God is all-good.

Everything is good.

Evil is just relative - it only exists relative to each. The deer is evil to grass. The lion is evil to deer. The grass (which eats the decaying corpse of the lion) is evil to the lion. But to God, all is good.

 

[Dave Ellis]

God is all-good.

Everything is good.

Evil is just relative - it only exists relative to each. The deer is evil to grass. The lion is evil to deer. The grass (which eats the decaying corpse of the lion) is evil to the lion. But to God, all is good.

So the holocaust was good in the eyes of your god?

 

[ananda]

No it doesn't... Why would it?

As it stands now you don't have an unlimited number of choices you can make. There are some things you just can't do, even if you wanted to do those things.

Taking the ability to do evil off the list of things we can do would leave every other action, ability and decision making process we have fully intact, we'd just live in a more peaceful world.

If heaven is supposedly perfect, then every decision made in heaven would have to be perfect, which implies that only perfect decisions are always made, and every less-than-perfect decision discarded.

 

[Inkfingers]

So the holocaust was good in the eyes of your god?

Yes.

Everything is.

Everything that happens is God's doing. Evil is only relative.

 

[Dave Ellis]

If heaven is supposedly perfect, then every decision made in heaven would have to be perfect, which implies that only perfect decisions are always made, and every less-than-perfect decision discarded.

That's correct, so no free will in heaven.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Yes.

Everything is.

Everything that happens is God's doing. Evil is only relative.

Then your interpretation of god is not worth worshipping. He's an evil monster.

 

[Inkfingers]

Then your interpretation of god is not worth worshipping. He's an evil monster.

Not when you realise that any suffering that occurs is:
a) necessary
b) self-inflicted

 

[Messy]

That's correct, so no free will in heaven.

Serve Him out of free will when you see that when you don't it will only lead to evil and pain anyway and He was so kind to deliver you from it.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Not when you realise that any suffering that occurs is:
a) necessary
b) self-inflicted

Why would your god create a universe where the holocaust is necessary? Because I can pretty well guarantee you the Jews didn't inflict it upon themselves.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Serve Him out of free will when you see that when you don't it will only lead to evil and pain anyway and He was so kind to deliver you from it.

Pardon?

 

[Inkfingers]

Why would your god create a universe where the holocaust is necessary? Because I can pretty well guarantee you the Jews didn't inflict it upon themselves.

God back and read who I said does eveything.

Secondly, this is what a real universe means in practice. There is no alternative.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then your interpretation of god is not worth worshipping. He's an evil monster.

Not evil, just apathetic.

 

[Messy]

Pardon?

You don't have to love and obey Him in heaven, you want to. So that's free will in heaven.

 

[ananda]

You don't have to love and obey Him in heaven, you want to. So that's free will in heaven.

Then what happened with Satan?

 

[Dave Ellis]

You don't have to love and obey Him in heaven, you want to. So that's free will in heaven.

So why not just create earth like that? Or only create people who would willingly choose to want to follow god?

 

[Messy]

Then what happened with Satan?

I mean now. No unborn child will rebel there. There's no use to.

 

[Messy]

So why not just create earth like that? Or only create people who would willingly choose to want to follow god?

I think that is impossible. People think that He could just look in a crystal ball to see that Lucifer would become a devil, oh then I don't create him. With people, how do that? Cain came as a result of the fall, he was from the devil. He could have killed him before he was born and then maybe Eve didn't want to follow Him anymore and it would be unrighteous to do.

 

[ananda]

I mean now. No unborn child will rebel there. There's no use to.

I don't understand the difference between "before Satan fell", and now, "after the fall of Satan" ... why was rebellion possible before, and not possible in heaven now? Did God change?

 

[Messy]

I don't understand the difference between "before Satan fell", and now, "after the fall of Satan" ... why was rebellion possible before, and not possible in heaven now? Did God change?

No He kicked the devil out. There are 2/3 of angels who never sinned and the people already sinned on earth and repented and got a new nature.

 

[ananda]

No He kicked the devil out. There are 2/3 of angels who never sinned and the people already sinned on earth and repented and got a new nature.

OK, so why was rebellion possible in heaven in ages past, and not in heaven now? What changed?