Why would God create a flawed creation? (2)

[Dave Ellis]

The comparison is that they are both artists (clearly the only comparison)

It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. For the ones who can't understand a simple metaphor-which is not literal- the statement says it is not the artists fault that the ones viewing the art destroyed its beauty and perfection

So what you are implying is your god is just a simple flawed artist then.

If he was an all powerful supreme being, he could have easily safeguarded his work from harm. He was either incapable of doing that, or he was negligent.

 

[agua]

So what you are implying is your god is just a simple flawed artist then.

If he was an all powerful supreme being, he could have easily safeguarded his work from harm. He was either incapable of doing that, or he was negligent.

I offered this question earlier and would like to hear if you have any input. Can you give some attributes for humans that Yahweh could have given that would make them "perfect" or safeguarded from harm ? ( regardless if it is a requirement of Yahweh, or not )

 

[ananda]

Can you give some attributes for humans that Yahweh could have given that would make them "perfect" or safeguarded from harm ? ( regardless if it is a requirement of Yahweh, or not )

How about spirits of men and women supposedly in heaven?

 

[Dave Ellis]

I offered this question earlier and would like to hear if you have any input. Can you give some attributes for humans that Yahweh could have given that would make them "perfect" or safeguarded from harm ? ( regardless if it is a requirement of Yahweh, or not )

For example, if he didn't want it to fall into sin, he could have intervened when the serpent was talking to eve.

Seeing as he's omniscient, he must have known it was going on. He could have "popped by" and asked the two what the conversation was about.

As for human attributes, he could have instilled a desire to follow all of his rules.

 

[Messy]

How about spirits of men and women supposedly in heaven?

He did that with angels, didn't work.

 

[ananda]

He did that with angels, didn't work.

So, it won't work with humans in heaven either, right?

 

[kristina411]

I did not imply anything, you inserted your false ideas where unwelcomed.
So refer to my previous post for scripture and have a fantastic day!

 

[Messy]

So, it won't work with humans in heaven either, right?

They already sinned and died.

 

[Dave Ellis]

I did not imply anything, you inserted your false ideas where unwelcomed.
So refer to my previous post for scripture and have a fantastic day!

No, actually you did imply that. The implication is your god has no more ability to safeguard his work of art than Salvador Dali.


That's not a false idea, that is the exact argument you have presented.

 

[kristina411]

No, actually you did imply that. The implication is your god has no more ability to safeguard his work of art than Salvador Dali.


That's not a false idea, that is the exact argument you have presented.

"brood of vipers" seems an adequate term at the moment.

If you believe that was somehow implied, you are incredibly delusional

 

[agua]

How about spirits of men and women supposedly in heaven?

I don't believe spirits of humans are in heaven but supposing they are what qualities would they have which would make them "perfect" or unable to be harmed etc?

 

[ananda]

They already sinned and died.

So is God unloving for not giving the fallen angels a redeemer?

 

[ananda]

I don't believe spirits of humans are in heaven but supposing they are what qualities would they have which would make them "perfect" or unable to be harmed etc?

I don't know. All I'm saying is that, the assumption that they are or will be perfect in heaven implies that God can create a perfect reality (heaven) but chose not to on his first try (earth).

 

[agua]

For example, if he didn't want it to fall into sin, he could have intervened when the serpent was talking to eve.

Seeing as he's omniscient, he must have known it was going on. He could have "popped by" and asked the two what the conversation was about.

As for human attributes, he could have instilled a desire to follow all of his rules.

Mediating sin is a different question than creating humans perfect, or above harm etc. I'd like to stay with the perfection subject, for now.

Ok good let's assess the instilling of a desire to follow all His rules. Can you give me an idea of how this would look ie. are you suggesting Yahweh could have created humans with the inability to disobey ? ( I will add an interesting point that the period of testing of the Saints, born again humans, is to strengthen their desire to follow Yahweh's rules through various methods. )

 

[Messy]

So is God unloving for not giving the fallen angels a redeemer?

When I was just saved I was so mad at God that He didn't give that poor devil another chance, then he came to haunt me and I didn't care anymore lol.

 

[agua]

I don't know. All I'm saying is that, the assumption that they are or will be perfect in heaven implies that God can create a perfect reality (heaven) but chose not to on his first try (earth).

I have no assumption that humans will be perfect in Heaven, because the Bible suggests humans will always live on Earth. ie. Humans are not spirits. ( The subject of "perfect" spirits is also interesting and follows similar reasoning to humans )

 

[agua]

When I was just saved I was so mad at God that He didn't give that poor devil another chance, then he came to haunt me and I didn't care anymore lol.

Nice message !

 

[ananda]

When I was just saved I was so mad at God that He didn't give that poor devil another chance, then he came to haunt me and I didn't care anymore lol.

Well, maybe he was mad because he didn't have a redeemer.

 

[ananda]

I have no assumption that humans will be perfect in Heaven, because the Bible suggests humans will always live on Earth. ie. Humans are not spirits. ( The subject of "perfect" spirits is also interesting and follows similar reasoning to humans )

"God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."

If we have the capacity to fail, and we are made in god's likeness, then that god also has the capacity to fail.

 

[Dave Ellis]

"brood of vipers" seems an adequate term at the moment.

If you believe that was somehow implied, you are incredibly delusional

Actually, "Ad Hominem" is the adequate term you might be looking for.

I have repeatedly asked you to demonstrate how what I said is incorrect, and you have resorted to a personal attack.

I'll take that as a tacit admission that you can't refute my argument. However, I don't expect you to be honest enough to withdraw your original statement.