Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

BrightCandle · Mar 31, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
God always unites and the devil always divides. We need to focus on our spiritual warfare as Ephesians 6:12 says "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

Jim:

Did you ever stop and consider that fact, that the two enduring spiritual concepts that have their origins in the Garden of Eden before the fall of mankind, namely, marriage and Sabbath, have been by an large disecrated by the Devil? Satan is so smart that he even has now the majority of the professed Christians forgetting the one Commandment that Jesus said to "Remember"! We are indeed fighting against spiritual forces in high places. And those forces are exhibited even here in CF by members who cast a negative light on the 7th day Sabbath, a special day that Jesus set aside and blessed like no other day.

If you and the other CF members who oppose the Sabbath, would humble yourselves before Jesus, and start honoring and keeping the holy Sabbath you would experience a special blessing and peace that can be experienced in no other way. God word is sure, and His promises are sure. Isaiah 66 states that all of God's people will keep the Sabbath in the new earth, so why not start now?

JimfromOhio · Mar 31, 2006

BrightCandle said:
Jim:

Did you ever stop and consider that fact, that the two enduring spiritual concepts that have their origins in the Garden of Eden before the fall of mankind, namely, marriage and Sabbath, have been by an large disecrated by the Devil? Satan is so smart that he even has now the majority of the professed Christians forgetting the one Commandment that Jesus said to "Remember"! We are indeed fighting against spiritual forces in high places. And those forces are exhibited even here in CF by members who cast a negative light on the 7th day Sabbath, a special day that Jesus set aside and blessed like no other day.

I you and the other CF members who oppose the Sabbath, would humble yourselves before Jesus, and start honoring and keeping the holy Sabbath you would experience a special blessing and peace that can be experienced in no other way. God word is sure, and His promises are sure. Isaiah 66 states that all of God's people will keep the Sabbath in the new earth, so why not start now?

Old Testament is LAW
New Testament is GRACE

In the new earth, will we have calendar or God will have a cycle of 7 days? No on knows.

I will repeat, I will respect your Sabbath and you should honor and respect others who have their own Sabbath... if you don't, that's between you and God. Colossians 3:13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

I will repeat:
As long as our conscience is clear and our heart is pure before God, don't be concerned with issues. That is GRACE. In Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 "both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake, the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?" I mean, it's like losing ourselves in the pursuit of Christ and let everything else take its place like legalism. Romans 14:10 "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat." Colossians 2:16 "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day." Romans 14:22 "So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God."

BrightCandle · Mar 31, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
Old Testament is LAW
New Testament is GRACE

In the new earth, will we have calendar or God will have a cycle of 7 days? No on knows. [/B]

What we do know is that Jesus gave Adam and Eve, the 7th day Sabbath in the Garden of Eden before sin entered the human race, and that when the Devil and of those who are lost are cast into the lake of fire, and the new heavens and earth are made pure, we will have the 7th day Sabbath. So why not start keeping it now? It doesn't make sense that for 4 millennia men would keep the Sabbath, then for 2 millennia, some would keep the the 1st day and some the 7th day, and then forever, in the new earth, all Christians will keep the 7th day.

JimfromOhio · Mar 31, 2006

BrightCandle said:
What we do know is that Jesus gave Adam and Eve, the 7th day Sabbath in the Garden of Eden before sin entered the human race, and that when the Devil and of those who are lost are cast into the lake of fire, and the new heavens and earth are made pure, we will have the 7th day Sabbath. So why not start keeping it now? It doesn't make sense that for 4 millennia men would keep the Sabbath, then for 2 millennia, some would keep the the 1st day and some the 7th day, and then forever, in the new earth, all Christians will keep the 7th day.

If your conscience tells you to keep it, then, you follow. 1 Corinthians 4:4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.

Its been fun debating. I am getting tired of continuous discussion that will never end with some people.

Its time to back out and lurk this thread. Maybe the next victim will accpet your challenge.

BrightCandle · Mar 31, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
If your conscience tells you to keep it, then, you follow. 1 Corinthians 4:4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.

Its been fun debating. I am getting tired of continuous discussion that will never end with some people.

Its time to back out and lurk this thread. Maybe the next victim will accpet your challenge.

I look forward to the return of Jesus, an event that will definitely bring to an end all questions and discussions of theology here in GT!

BrightCandle · Apr 1, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
If your conscience tells you to keep it, then, you follow. 1 Corinthians 4:4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.

Its been fun debating. I am getting tired of continuous discussion that will never end with some people.

Its time to back out and lurk this thread. Maybe the next victim will accpet your challenge.

What our consciences tell us should be measured up against God's word. There are professed Christians who do and beleive all kinds of things that directly go against God's word. How can this be? Because they have seared their consiences. By rejecting the clear commands of God, as spoken in the Sabbath Commandment we can cause a strong delusion to come over our minds and conscience.

JimfromOhio · Apr 1, 2006

BrightCandle said:
What our consciences tell us should be measured up against God's word. There are professed Christians who do and beleive all kinds of things that directly go against God's word. How can this be? Because they have seared their consiences. By rejecting the clear commands of God, as spoken in the Sabbath Commandment we can cause a strong delusion to come over our minds and conscience.

Is grace being "measured"? As long as our conscience is clear and our heart is pure before God, don't be concerned with ceremonial issues. Romans 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

"Heart is used in Scripture as the most comprehensive term for the authentic person. It is the part of our being where we desire, deliberate, and decide. It has been described as 'the place of conscience and decisive spiritual activity', 'the comprehensive term for a person as a whole; his feelings, desires, passions, thoughts, understanding and will.' and 'the center of a person. The place to which God turns'." Joseph M. Stowell (Fan the Flame)

ThreeAM · Apr 1, 2006

kw5kw said:
do you mean Secular?

No http://www.m-w.com/

non sequitur

One entry found for non sequitur. Main Entry: non se·qui·tur

Pronunciation: 'nän-'se-kw&-t&r also -"tur
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, it does not follow
1 : an inference that does not follow from the premises; specifically : a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent
2 : a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from anything previously said

BrightCandle · Apr 1, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
Is grace being "measured"? As long as our conscience is clear and our heart is pure before God, don't be concerned with ceremonial issues. Romans 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

"Heart is used in Scripture as the most comprehensive term for the authentic person. It is the part of our being where we desire, deliberate, and decide. It has been described as 'the place of conscience and decisive spiritual activity', 'the comprehensive term for a person as a whole; his feelings, desires, passions, thoughts, understanding and will.' and 'the center of a person. The place to which God turns'." Joseph M. Stowell (Fan the Flame)

Jim, you know your Bible, how can you ignore the texts that point out say in some many words, that: "there is a way seems right, but the end thereofe leads to death", and "the heart is decietful and wicked above all things".

We are not talking about ceremonial issues, if we were you would have a point. We are talking about God's Law, the foundation of His universal government, and a transcript of His character; in particular the 7th day Sabbath, the 4th Commandment. If a professed Christian understands the Sabbath's holiness and chooses to trangress this commandment, that is lawlessnes, and lawlessness is sin. That is why the conscience needs to be "benchmarked" by God's Law of love. Otherwise we can be self-decieved, otherwise called in the Bible as a "strong delusion".

JimfromOhio · Apr 1, 2006

BrightCandle said:
Jim, you know your Bible, how can you ignore the texts that point out say in some many words, that: "there is a way seems right, but the end thereofe leads to death", and "the heart is decietful and wicked above all things".

We are not talking about ceremonial issues, if we were you would a point. We are talking about God's Law, the foundation of His universal government, and a transcript of His character; in particular the 7th day Sabbath, the 4th Commandment. If a professed Christian understands the Sabbath's holiness and chooses to trangress this commandment, that is lawlessnes, and lawlessness is sin. That is why the conscience needs to be "benchmarked" by God's Law of love. Otherwise we can be self-decieved, otherwise called in the Bible as a "strong delusion".

Wee all can have GREAT biblical knowledge but if we don't have spiritual wisdom, your knowledge is worthless.

A Brother In Christ · Apr 1, 2006

BrightCandle said:
It has been amusing to me, here in the United States, regarding all the recent concern that Christian judges, churches, and organizations have regarding the removal of various historic monuments of the Ten Commandments in public places, like court houses, capital buildings, parks, etc., etc., while the majority of Christians in favor of the their not being removed are not keeping the 4th Commandment [7th day Sabbath]. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), could easily point out this inconsistency to the embarassment of those Christians calling for the Ten Commandments to not be removed on the grounds that their visibility in public places will discourage lawlessness, while the very same Christians are being "lawless" by breaking the 4th Commandment.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ death on the cross is in vain.

BrightCandle · Apr 1, 2006

A Brother In Christ said:
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ death on the cross is in vain.

When we willfully break the law and sin, we then crucify Jesus afresh. Jesus' grace gives us the power to obey, but if we determine not to obey, what can He do?

BrightCandle · Apr 1, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
Wee all can have GREAT biblical knowledge but if we don't have spiritual wisdom, your knowledge is worthless.

Psalm 119:98 "Your commandment makes me wiser than my enemies."

A Brother In Christ · Apr 1, 2006

BrightCandle said:
When we willfully break the law and sin, we then crucify Jesus afresh. Jesus' grace gives us the power to obey, but if we determine not to obey, what can He do?

Gal 5:16 This I say then walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh

romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the full experiencial knowledge of sin.

2 peter 3:18 But grow by grace , and in the full experiencial knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ....

romans 11:6 and since by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then isit no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

JimfromOhio · Apr 1, 2006

BrightCandle said:
Psalm 119:98 "Your commandment makes me wiser than my enemies."

Knowing the scriptures requires the Holy Spirit which is inward, not outward. It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Proverbs 19:2 Titus 1:1-2 The knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God. Proverbs 2:10 For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. Proverbs 18:15 The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out. Proverbs 23:12 Apply your heart to instruction and your ears to words of knowledge.

BrightCandle · Apr 1, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
Knowing the scriptures requires the Holy Spirit which is inward, not outward. It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Proverbs 19:2 Titus 1:1-2 The knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God. Proverbs 2:10 For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. Proverbs 18:15 The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out. Proverbs 23:12 Apply your heart to instruction and your ears to words of knowledge.

I can apply my heart all day long to acquire knowledge, but if I ignore a clearly defined duty (keeping all 10 of the Ten Commandments), then I'm just talking the talk, but not walking the walk, its that simple. Jesus stated His test of love: "If you love me, keep my commandments."

ThreeAM · Apr 1, 2006

A Brother In Christ said:
Gal 5:16 This I say then walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh

romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the full experiencial knowledge of sin.

2 peter 3:18 But grow by grace , and in the full experiencial knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ....

romans 11:6 and since by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then isit no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the Commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his Commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

mystery4 · Apr 1, 2006

A Brother In Christ said:
Gal 5:16 This I say then walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh

romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the full experiencial knowledge of sin.

2 peter 3:18 But grow by grace , and in the full experiencial knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ....

romans 11:6 and since by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then isit no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

I think you will find that Paul and Peter aren't saying we shouldn't obey the law. My understanding is that they were saying we shouldn't rely on our obedience to the law for salvation, rather its through the grace of God through our faith that we are saved.

Rom 3:27-31 NKJV
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we *establish the law.

*(NIV says uphold)

mystery4 · Apr 2, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
Knowing the scriptures requires the Holy Spirit which is inward, not outward. It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Proverbs 19:2 Titus 1:1-2 The knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God. Proverbs 2:10 For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. Proverbs 18:15 The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out. Proverbs 23:12 Apply your heart to instruction and your ears to words of knowledge.

You are right that it is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor is it good to be hasty. God always wants us to know exactly what is required of us or what he expects before we agree to follow Him. And yes you are right in saying that we must inwardly know the scriptures which the Holy Spirit will open up to us to understand when we call upon him to do so.

However how can others see that the Holy Spirit is leading you without outward actions? How will God know your sincerity unless you choose to follow Him in Spirit and in truth? Doesn't that require an outward appearance as well as an inward one?

James says in chapter 2:17-18, 20-22, 26
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without *your works, and I will show you my faith by *my works...
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is *dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?...26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Feel free to read the entire section in James 2. Works will not get us to heaven, only the grace of God can and will do that if we choose to accept it through faith (Eph 2:8-10).

Cliff2 · Apr 2, 2006

"If you love me, keep my commandments."

How many of the commandments have to be kept, nine or ten?

Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

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