Why we should reject forgiveness culture

[ViaCrucis]

The doctrine of Hell is a sufficient proof of the lack of universal forgiveness by God.

Then you don't understand the core message of the Bible, and the Christian religion.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Like I said, if even God can't forgive the unpardonable sin

The unpardonable sin isn't unpardonable because God is powerless to forgive it, as though God were unwilling or unable to forgive it. Why think so little of God?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Phil 1:21]

Like I said, if even God can't forgive the unpardonable sin

Then you don't understand the core message of the Bible, and the Christian religion.

-CryptoLutheran

Every time we read "God can't..." we pretty much know the statement is wrong.

 

[Rnad M Sutor]

Breaking UNFORGIVENESS - The Easy Way!


When you have unforgiveness in your heart, you envision yourself arguing with the image of the person that you have unforgiveness for. In fact, if you've had it for a long time, you bring that person and the hate that you have for him or her into the present, and in your mind you see that person giving you a right good ear beating over whatever it is that you're doing today, even if you're not doing anything wrong, and even if they've never seen what it is you're working on. It's because that seed of unforgiveness you planted in your heart many years ago is still growing, still producing fruit!. You might continue to talk nice to that person if you see them, but in reality you hate their stinking guts.


The Bible says "A good man out of the good tresaure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh" (Luke 6: 45) Whatever we hold in our heart, we carry with us throughout life until we root it out, or we carry it out into eternity with us and that's not a pleasant thought.



You might start hollering at someone over some small matter that shouldn't even have been mentioned, or your anger at them might be justified, but you go way overbaord in dealing with them. Then afterwards you might apologize for your actions, but before long you're blowing up again! It's called misplaced anger! The real reason for your anger is that person you never forgave for offending you.


Whatever you have in the garden of your heart M-U-S-T bring forth fruit, and it does! You may have even tried many times to forgive the people you have hatred for, without any real success. So what is the answer! To be honest with you it is very simple! When you begin to envision one of those images in your mind that you find yourself arguing with, do not argue with it, but instead say "I forgave you!" You do not have to say it out loud. In fact, most of the arguing that you do with that image is in your thoughts anyhow, so instead of arguing with that image, just say "I forgave you" How does something that has been causing you so much trouble, perhaps your life long, get conquered so easily? It's because it takes the "fight, the battle" out of your mind!


I have used this on myself! If I say something in a conversation that I wish I hadn't, I don't walk away beating myself up. If I catch myself (saying to myself as I walk away) "I wish I had hadn't said this or that," I immediately start saying in my mind "I forgave you for that. Don't worry about that, it's in the past.


I think that the reason some people don't forgive when they've been hurt, especially by having their trust broken, is because they feel that if they forgive that person, they will fall back into the same cycle of trusting and having their trust broken, repeatedly. But if that's the case you can use wisdom. Just because you have forgiven someone who has broken your trust, doesn't mean that you have to trust them again, because although you forgive someone, that does not mean that that person has changed, they may still be very untrustworthy! And also, it's usually best to sever from your friendship circle, someone who takes advantage of you, because when you are least expecting it, you'll get taken-in again.


You don't have to be hurtful to that person when you break ties either, you can always mention something else that you have to do. Be cordial and polite and they'll soon realize you are no longer interested in their friendship. Forgiving that person is one thing, but trusting them once again is another.


Also, if you've been one who has had a problem with unforgiveness through the years, it will take you awhile to get it all out. Keep working at it and one day it will be gone and you'll be free! Unforgiveness always hurts the unforgiver because we end up carrying hatred in us and it changes our outlook and our demeaner, and then we're no fun to be around, right!


There are people who are fond of talking about the "stupid boss" they have, or the "idiot" they have to work with each day, but this is the exact same thing with a different twist. Instead of giving somebody an ear beating to their face, they talk about how stupid the world around them is, and to be honest with you, you feel like your getting a right good ear beating yourself when you're around them because your taking-in everything they're saying even though you may not agree with what's being said. You must learn to let people know in a kind way that you don't care to hear it because it is pulling you down. Also, they need someone to correct them (in a kind way) so they can realize their wrong. If you don't learn little by little, to speak up, they will suffer and so will you! Sometimes, the very best correction is simply saying "Excuse me a minute, but I have to take care of something." and walk away!


Forgive and you will be forgiven! Don't worry about justice because our unseen God will take care of that. You may not see the justice take place when someone does you wrong, but leave it to Him anyway. Just focus on keeping your heart and mind in peace before God. You CAN be free so stay at it, you just need to work on changing your thought process, and over time it will change you!


Also, for those who have struggled for years to surrender your "all" to Christ, unforgiveness in your heart is a blockage He can't get by. Getting all the unforgiveness out will make more room for Him to occupy in your heart. It's easy to trust Him deeply when you get rid of the blockages! God bless!

 

[Drifter Kybe Scythe Kane]

I am not embarrassed to call myself a Christian because I'm ashamed of Christ. I'm embarrassed to call myself a Christian because I supposedly have the same faith as the people who insist that we be doormats.

Given the recent mass shootings we've been dealing with in the last few years, we as Christians need to remind ourselves that it's not just Satan who makes this world evil, there are also evil people in this world. People who do not have a conscience and do not want forgiveness. I'm not going to hesitate to call what this man did as murder and child killing, and neither should you. Evil is evil, and there is no excuse for it, none. I don't care what this man went through that "drove" him to do this. There is ALWAYS a choice, and he made his choice.

How about this for a news flash? NO ONE can MAKE you do ANYTHING. NO ONE. People CHOOSE to murder and rape and rob and torture and abuse. It is ALWAYS a choice. ALWAYS. Saying it's due to one thing or another is to absolve people like this murderer of their responsibility, which the Bible says we are to hold them to.

I hate it, honestly hate it, when people are quick to forgive. Forgiveness NEVER comes without REPENTANCE. I know that because I read my bible. Only when people REPENT can they be forgiven. And I'm not just talking about saying "I'm sorry." I'm talking about literally begging and actively changing their lives around. Only then can things be made right and the people left in the wake of destruction have any kind of relief.

You can challenge me all you want, but I will be ready with a biblical response. The bible tells us that people who do evil things are without excuse. Some may ask for forgiveness, and some don't, because they don't want it. Forgiveness is not a right, it's not a demand to be made, it's not a commodity. And in a culture that stigmatizes those who refuse to forgive, the added stress can lead to poorer health and slower recovery.

It may well be true that "Forgiveness sets you free." However, the idea of forgiveness as a psychological or emotional condition traces to 18th-century moral philosophy, not first-century Christian writings. Forgiveness in the time of Jesus was an action verb, and Jesus's instructions served as checks for the health of the community, both on earth and in the world to come. There is nothing in the Bible that says that forgiveness is good for the physical or mental health of the forgiver. It is anachronistic to suggest otherwise.

Our job as Christians is not to walk eggshells around people like this but to stand with their victims and be there for them. That means praying that the murderer might come to repentance. I'm not going to be nice to people who blame other people for their problems by murdering their families and children. Satan may be evil, but there are also evil people. There are people who do not have a heart and do not want forgiveness.

All we can do is pray that we start taking evil more seriously when we see it. Jesus didn't walk eggshells around evil, and neither should we. If we do, then we'll only be part of the problem. Unconditional forgiveness is not biblical or compassionate. It lets the murderer think they can get away with whatever they want and not have consequences.

I sincerely pray that this man who killed all of these children come to realize the terrible, barbaric, and evil thing he did. I also sincerely pray that we look more deeply into our bibles and start following what it says regarding the oppressed and those who do them wrong.

I totally agree. Worst things have happened and it's time to say enough is enough in the name of God. I'm glad you can take things from the wonderful book in such ways. Kudos to you. You of all time of Christians here have I never seen one as straight forward as you, lol. We need to know what to do for progress of advanced ways of God and his teachings which is peace and sharing with family and neighbors. It's on us to know what's poison and what's not...especially the politicians.

 

[Swan7]

I sense a lot of anger here which is not good. As Christians we are to put away such destructible behaviours: 1 Peter 2:1-3 & Ephesians 4:31-32 Otherwise, how are we to move forward in relationship with God? We can't if we live like this, it's like a dog going back to its own vomit.
Be careful not to become like a Pharisee only looking to the law as a means to hold it above another.

I really hope and pray for your heart for these matters: Matthew 7:1-2 & 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

 

[discipler7]

MATTHEW.18: =
Dealing with a Sinning Brother
15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. ...

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. ...

33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
.
.
1CORINTHIANS.5: =
Immorality Must Be Judged
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Through Jesus Christ, God saves repentant believers from hell when they die.(MATTHEW.4:17)

In order to be saved from hell when they die, Christian believers are to forgive their repentant brethren or fellow Christians without any limit or eternally. OTOH, unrepentant brethren should be ostracized and excommunicated. If the sin/evil-deed/crime is serious, the unrepentant brethren may even be reported to the national Law enforcement agencies.

As for unrepentant non-brethren, Christians should deal with them in accordance with the world's Law, eg US Law. Christians should try to witness to repentant non-brethren or non-believers.

 

[mreeed]

I don't think it always needs to be forgiveness first or repentance first, though at times certain elements of one view may be more fitting than the other or vice versa, or it may be seen as either depending on perspective. As with so many of God's characteristics, His character seems to be shown in the paradox, in the intersection where opposing themes intersect. Justice and love/mercy, free will and sovereignty, forgiveness and repentance, God emptying Himself into the form of man, the last becoming first, to name a few. I believe the depths of both approaches can be instructive, and may depend much on the situation. Here are two recent examples:

1. Rebekah Friesen, whose partner Fritz Musser was murdered by an 18 year old Georgian man in the summer of 2016 while hiking in the Caucus mountains, flew halfway across the world for the trial, despite the language and culture barriers to try to help someone she felt her partner also would have tried to reach out to, to extend her forgiveness to him and show love to his family and work towards restorative justice. Before she knew if he was remorseful or not or what she might be able to understand or communicate, but choosing to come from a place of hope even though she never got an answer as to why this person did what he did. Not a casual superficial response, but one from depth of character and godly background, as well as "making the choice to honour Fritz in an extraordinary way".
How I forgave the man who killed my partner

Interviewer El at 6:34: You're speaking about Mikhail in such a compassionate and personal way and I think that might be difficult for some people listening to understand. You never felt any anger towards him or any desire to see him suffer?
Rebekah: No... there's enough suffering in this world already El, I really don't think we need more of it. And you know, I've come to understand, and I don't know if I've processed enough to have the right words for it yet. But I've come to understand that my response to Mikheil is a privileged sort of response. I grew up in a Mennonite family. Mennonites, one of their core values is pacifism. My Dad is a real storyteller, particularly about things learned in his own life. He spoke so often of forgiveness, the need for forgiveness, the power of forgiveness. So many of the stories I heard in my childhood were about forgiveness. And then now I work in a L'Arche community, and I've been working in this community for about 5-1/2 years. L'Arche, when we're doing life the way we want to do life, is all about restoration...
E: How do you feel about the word victim? Do you feel that that describes you?
R: That is a great question...one I've given a lot of thought to. You know, prior to Fritz's death, I found the word very difficult. The thing that it conjured up was a poor me mentality. But after his death I understood the word victim to have the potential to be a position of power, [learning of others]...in their own lives and the impact they were able to have on the person who hurt them or on the world around them; it's a powerful word to me now."

There was definitely power in Christ's decision to extend forgiveness to us also, which was a part of His turning the tables on darkness and overcoming it. We love Him because He first loved us, and while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. And with Him as our example, and pouring into us that love, we have the privilege of extending His grace to others. Those of us who have freely received, are free to freely give as well. Needing to be wise in casting our pearls, but being willing to see people as He sees them, knowing that it is God's kindness, which sometimes may use the kindness of others, that can lead us to repentance.

2. Rachael Denhollander, in her victim speech at the Larry Nassar trial, has some poignant words on this subject, particularly from about the 26:43 to 29 minute marks, mincing no words about what happened to her and others, but also giving an eloquent summary of the gospel message of love, salvation, wrath against sin, and forgiveness.

"In our early hearings you brought your Bible into the courtroom and you have spoken of praying for forgiveness, and so it is on that basis that I appeal to you. If you have read the Bible you carry, you know that the definition of the sacrificial love portrayed is of God Himself, loving so sacrificially that He gave up everything to pay a penalty for the sin that He did not commit. By His grace I too choose to love this way. Forgiveness ... comes from repentance, which requires facing and acknowledging the truth about what you have done in all of its utter depravity and horror, without mitigation. ... Should you ever reach the point of ever truly facing what you have done, the guilt will be crushing. And that is what makes the gospel of Christ so sweet. Because it extends grace, and hope, and mercy where none should be found. And it will be there for you. I pray you experience the soul-crushing weight of guilt, so that you may someday experience true repentance, and true forgiveness from God, which you need far more than forgiveness from me, though I extend that to you as well."

 

[devin553344]

I am not embarrassed to call myself a Christian because I'm ashamed of Christ. I'm embarrassed to call myself a Christian because I supposedly have the same faith as the people who insist that we be doormats.

Given the recent mass shootings we've been dealing with in the last few years, we as Christians need to remind ourselves that it's not just Satan who makes this world evil, there are also evil people in this world. People who do not have a conscience and do not want forgiveness. I'm not going to hesitate to call what this man did as murder and child killing, and neither should you. Evil is evil, and there is no excuse for it, none. I don't care what this man went through that "drove" him to do this. There is ALWAYS a choice, and he made his choice.

How about this for a news flash? NO ONE can MAKE you do ANYTHING. NO ONE. People CHOOSE to murder and rape and rob and torture and abuse. It is ALWAYS a choice. ALWAYS. Saying it's due to one thing or another is to absolve people like this murderer of their responsibility, which the Bible says we are to hold them to.

I hate it, honestly hate it, when people are quick to forgive. Forgiveness NEVER comes without REPENTANCE. I know that because I read my bible. Only when people REPENT can they be forgiven. And I'm not just talking about saying "I'm sorry." I'm talking about literally begging and actively changing their lives around. Only then can things be made right and the people left in the wake of destruction have any kind of relief.

You can challenge me all you want, but I will be ready with a biblical response. The bible tells us that people who do evil things are without excuse. Some may ask for forgiveness, and some don't, because they don't want it. Forgiveness is not a right, it's not a demand to be made, it's not a commodity. And in a culture that stigmatizes those who refuse to forgive, the added stress can lead to poorer health and slower recovery.

It may well be true that "Forgiveness sets you free." However, the idea of forgiveness as a psychological or emotional condition traces to 18th-century moral philosophy, not first-century Christian writings. Forgiveness in the time of Jesus was an action verb, and Jesus's instructions served as checks for the health of the community, both on earth and in the world to come. There is nothing in the Bible that says that forgiveness is good for the physical or mental health of the forgiver. It is anachronistic to suggest otherwise.

Our job as Christians is not to walk eggshells around people like this but to stand with their victims and be there for them. That means praying that the murderer might come to repentance. I'm not going to be nice to people who blame other people for their problems by murdering their families and children. Satan may be evil, but there are also evil people. There are people who do not have a heart and do not want forgiveness.

All we can do is pray that we start taking evil more seriously when we see it. Jesus didn't walk eggshells around evil, and neither should we. If we do, then we'll only be part of the problem. Unconditional forgiveness is not biblical or compassionate. It lets the murderer think they can get away with whatever they want and not have consequences.

I sincerely pray that this man who killed all of these children come to realize the terrible, barbaric, and evil thing he did. I also sincerely pray that we look more deeply into our bibles and start following what it says regarding the oppressed and those who do them wrong.

My belief: I don't think forgiveness or good and evil has anything to do with the massacre. From what I've read and understand the brain is a computer and when it's damaged thru mental illness it doesn't function correctly and things can happen like massacres. Like a bad robot. I think the politicians are right, we need more funding for mental health treatments, especially in our youth.

We see depression suicides, murders, etc and other behaviors coming from the mentally ill. I believe one day that mankind will find good solutions for these types of problems thru medicine and scientific progress.

If we can treat the people before the massacre than we can stop the massacres from happening. And that's what the FBI failed to respond to. The FBI failed to respond and treat the murderer before the murders happened. Let's hope that doesn't happen again. God bless every one of us. And protect the victims before they become victims.

 

[royal priest]

I think that forgiveness is wanting the best for the offender, .... whether they want it or not.

This is certainly God's attitude, and as His children, we should be seeking to emulate Him.

God's forgiveness is conditional. In order for God to extend forgiveness, the offender must confess and turn from sin. Acts of the Apostles 2:38; Acts of the Apostles 8:22; Proverbs 28:13; Isaiah 59:2; Ezekiel 18:31-32; 1 John 1:9; Psalms 32:5
Also, forgiveness results in a change of the relationship between God and the penitent sinner. They no longer regard nor treat each other as enemies 1 Peter 2:9-10; Acts of the Apostles 26:18

 

[mindlight]

I am not embarrassed to call myself a Christian because I'm ashamed of Christ. I'm embarrassed to call myself a Christian because I supposedly have the same faith as the people who insist that we be doormats.

Given the recent mass shootings we've been dealing with in the last few years, we as Christians need to remind ourselves that it's not just Satan who makes this world evil, there are also evil people in this world. People who do not have a conscience and do not want forgiveness. I'm not going to hesitate to call what this man did as murder and child killing, and neither should you. Evil is evil, and there is no excuse for it, none. I don't care what this man went through that "drove" him to do this. There is ALWAYS a choice, and he made his choice.

How about this for a news flash? NO ONE can MAKE you do ANYTHING. NO ONE. People CHOOSE to murder and rape and rob and torture and abuse. It is ALWAYS a choice. ALWAYS. Saying it's due to one thing or another is to absolve people like this murderer of their responsibility, which the Bible says we are to hold them to.

I hate it, honestly hate it, when people are quick to forgive. Forgiveness NEVER comes without REPENTANCE. I know that because I read my bible. Only when people REPENT can they be forgiven. And I'm not just talking about saying "I'm sorry." I'm talking about literally begging and actively changing their lives around. Only then can things be made right and the people left in the wake of destruction have any kind of relief.

You can challenge me all you want, but I will be ready with a biblical response. The bible tells us that people who do evil things are without excuse. Some may ask for forgiveness, and some don't, because they don't want it. Forgiveness is not a right, it's not a demand to be made, it's not a commodity. And in a culture that stigmatizes those who refuse to forgive, the added stress can lead to poorer health and slower recovery.

It may well be true that "Forgiveness sets you free." However, the idea of forgiveness as a psychological or emotional condition traces to 18th-century moral philosophy, not first-century Christian writings. Forgiveness in the time of Jesus was an action verb, and Jesus's instructions served as checks for the health of the community, both on earth and in the world to come. There is nothing in the Bible that says that forgiveness is good for the physical or mental health of the forgiver. It is anachronistic to suggest otherwise.

Our job as Christians is not to walk eggshells around people like this but to stand with their victims and be there for them. That means praying that the murderer might come to repentance. I'm not going to be nice to people who blame other people for their problems by murdering their families and children. Satan may be evil, but there are also evil people. There are people who do not have a heart and do not want forgiveness.

All we can do is pray that we start taking evil more seriously when we see it. Jesus didn't walk eggshells around evil, and neither should we. If we do, then we'll only be part of the problem. Unconditional forgiveness is not biblical or compassionate. It lets the murderer think they can get away with whatever they want and not have consequences.

I sincerely pray that this man who killed all of these children come to realize the terrible, barbaric, and evil thing he did. I also sincerely pray that we look more deeply into our bibles and start following what it says regarding the oppressed and those who do them wrong.

Repentance is about the other guy. He will not receive the forgiveness available to him until he repents.

Forgiveness is about God and about being Christian. We do not forgive because the other person deserves it but rather because it is what Jesus did when he taught us to love and pray for our enemies and when he died for us on the cross forgiving the unrepentant idiots hurling abuse at him as he did so.

You call Christians doormats for forgiving someone who does not deserve it. But take two people - the one angry and "honest" and brutally yelling the other persons sins , real and imagined, for all the world to hear, the other calm not replying in kind and knowing that the anger will pass in time and the real story behind it. It is the one who forgives who holds the world together and the one who cannot forgive who tears things apart and often spoils them beyond all hope of restoration.

Nikolas Cruz strikes me as more of an ignoramus swept along by ugly forces in American culture rather than a hypocritical Pharisee with a better understanding of scripture. He is a man who really does not know what he is doing. Does that excuse him ? No of course not. Without repentance the man is going to hell. But can we forgive him , can Christ? Stupid question really - of course forgiveness is available and is offered even to him.

 

[Blade]

People do make mistakes.. people that dont know Christ do can be controlled by what you can not see feel or hear. Murder.. to God "I hate" to God is murder. Forgiveness.. this is not something we all get to use it the way we see it read it or feel. Forgiveness comes by repentance? Did the woman toss at Jesus feet ask to be forgiven? What do you call a GOD that leaves heaven for a world that out right hates Him yet HE loves what He created so much He dies for them. What is death? So.. He does not forgiven ANYONE until they repent? Again.. why did He die..for sin? Once He died.. and rose PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS.. what ..just what does He remember? If that old sacrifice just covered sin.. what did His blood do? What SIN made it past the blood of a GOD? You REALLY need to know this...His LOVE for His creation ..you and I will never understand here.

Now.. murder lying speeding..if its done by some one of this world.. judged already they are. You think murder to God is far worse then going 68 on the road when the speed limit is 65? You think there is something called a white lie? Does this GOD really measure SIN as man does? In this world there is a price to pay for some sins. Yet this is NOT the real realm. You can NEVER SIN... vs someone that kills .. not one will enter heaven. God never told Adam and Eve if you sin you will never enter heaven. He said.. if you eat of this tree you will die. Sin in this world.. the price for that sin is death. How do you think all the saints of old are saved? Knowing JESUS did they? A hope the messiah will come saved them? SO MANY have no clue.. bless there heart.

My point..its not the SIN or how you measure it that makes you good or bad. You keep looking at the things from GOD as HUMAN 1st then you try to apply GOD to your thinking. God knew what this boy was going to do and already took his place as He did YOU!. You lol think your better? All have fallen short... there are NONE NO ONE righteous not one. So .. get over it. Your just as evil as the one that lies vs the one that just kills. When HE finds you and you believe.. you repent.. what died from the start is reborn..HIS righteousness is yours. You are now in right standing with GOD THE FATHER ONLY because GOD sees CHRIST 1st then you. Or you would not be standing before Him.

What the boy did was .. I have come close very close to knowing this feeling my baby would be gone forever.. yet I have not truly felt it. No one dies ...this happens all over the world... sorry...Each person be it old or new baby.. a GOD created. Every day every moment He sees feels hears what YOU and I will never hear...and yet He died for that one that kills and does things to.. HIS creation. He made His choice.. forgave them. Took there place. They never kill take your baby.. it was HIS from the start. Ask pray seek on how HE feels....if I have offended forgive me. I am no spearker

 

[thesunisout]

We should forgive because we have been forgiven

 

[SolomonVII]

What I have been noticing in popular culture of late is the meaning of forgiveness has been warped of late. People asking for forgiveness can mean that even if the act that they are asking to be forgiven for was hurtful in some way, what they are looking for is an acknowledgment that the action they performed was the correct one.

Or it can mean an acknowledgement that you are making a mountain out of a molehill, and therefore ought to let it go.

What is lacking is any sense of repentance.
.

 

[longwait]

14 "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

I know as certainty I need that -- I need to forgive, because I need to be forgiven. When it's harder, I've prayed for help to change my heart, and because I prayed with belief help would come, it did, dramatically, and the very next time I saw the person (I prayed at night, and encountered them the very next day) my heart had already been changed, and the resentment was gone.

OK, but what if you have decided to forgive but they seize any opportunity to insult, mock, point finger at you and create faults about you which is not true. How are you supposed to forgive such characters?

 

[Halbhh]

OK, but what if you have decided to forgive but they seize any opportunity to insult, mock, point finger at you and create faults about you which is not true. How are you supposed to forgive such characters?

Forgiving doesn't mean you ignore a person's actions. For example: if a neighbor steals something from me, I should forgive them, but I shouldn't then tempt them by leaving stuff out again so that they are tempted to steal again. I remove the temptation, so that they would be less likely to stumble. I remove valuables from their eyesight.

So it is with all sorts of offenders. We should truly forgive them entirely, but if they haven't clearly reformed, we don't expect any different from them, and we remove the opportunity for them to do the crime again. For instance, we should forgive a repeat troll and also remove their account unless they show clear reform. If they show up with a new name, we don't have a grudge against them because if we forgive we do not have anything against them.

We don't condemn them.

We don't have a grude against them.

We don't hold anything in our heart against them, but more(!), we are to love them.

Love.

When they are simply subject to ordinary rules of society, that's not harm unless the rules and sentence are unjust. When the rules and consequences are just, we don't try to block those laws, but we love the criminal even as we support the governing laws. We might for instance actually visit someone in prison whom we only got to know because of their crime against us or our neighbors even if they aren't a believer, just to bring the good news to them.

 

[A_Thinker]

OK, but what if you have decided to forgive but they seize any opportunity to insult, mock, point finger at you and create faults about you which is not true. How are you supposed to forgive such characters?

It works best if you can walk away from them ... and avoid their presence.

If not, I think that you take a position of "do no harm", but do what you need to do to take care of yourself, trying to maintain as much peace as possible.

Paul has some words to say on this in Romans 12 ...

17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. live peaceably with all. never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[Drifter Kybe Scythe Kane]

hey at least we have the most popular god of all gods ever in existence, lol. i guess i still agree though, standing up for yourself is of great value. the phrase standing up to yourself should be devoted to women, artists, and so on. standing up for yourself predates christianity and it works.

 

[HisPrincess710]

I'm going to make it clear to everyone that I made sure I'm not angry in this next post.

What I am about to say are objective facts (if you're a Christian), and that whether people like it or not, evil is in this world. And just because people are uncomfortable dealing with it the right way does not exempt them from it. It only makes them part of the problem.

Does it seem harsh or un-Christian-like to you to refer to a child rapist as a pervert and a dirtbag? Or to call someone who would terrorize her own 2-year old to the point that he can’t catch his breath and is gasping for air, and then laugh at his panic, a sadist and a sociopath? Or to call a mother who stays married to the pedophile who raped her child, fails to do anything to protect that child, and then tops it all off by babysitting OTHER PEOPLE’S children and leaving them alone with the pervert so he can (and did) rape THEM too, a lowlife who belongs in the cell next to him? Is calling a baby-killer a “murderer” going to hurt his poor widdle feewings? Is there even a name bad enough, or should I say “descriptive” enough, to call a mother who would set up her own child to be raped repeatedly by her husband, to keep him from focusing his attention on HER? What about a father who pimps out his children to his friends for money and beer? Or the jackass who has a fight with his girlfriend and then beats their 5-week old baby to death for spite to get back at her? Or the parents who lock their child in a room for seven years, make her use a litter box for a bathroom, and starve her so badly that she weighs only 35 pounds when she finally dies?

Hey, they are what they are. I’m not here to help them feel good about themselves. Seriously, what else would you call them? What would be the politically correct way to refer to scum like this? “Slightly irresponsible”? “Child torture-challenged”? “Having low self-esteem which results in unintentional acting-out of their frustrations and beating the baby”? “Having boundary issues with sexually touching children”? “Being a little temperamental, sometimes resulting in accidentally going too far and killing a child ”? Oh, pull-eeze. Enough, already.

Someone who LIKES to see pain and gets pleasure by making a helpless victim suffer IS a sadist. That’s the definition of the word “sadist.” A person who remorselessly and brutally inflicts his malice and violence on an innocent target, has absolutely no conscience or compassion about it, and in fact often then tries to use what he did to elicit sympathy for HIMSELF, IS a sociopath. That’s what a sociopath IS. No, really. Look it up. Let’s not disrespect the victims and minimize their experiences and pain by making up more pleasant sounding euphemisms to cover up their abusers’ true natures. That sends a false message to victims and to the world- that what was done to them wasn’t really so bad. But it WAS, so let’s stop beating around the bush. Let’s stand up and make our disapproval of and contempt for their abusers loud and clear. Tell it like it is.

This is not a subject we need to be wishy-washy, calm, or easy-going about. We don’t need to phrase it kindly lest we insult a dirtbag or offend his partners-in-crime. Using strong language to describe abusers and their enablers serves a purpose. It gets people’s attention. It underscores for them just how disgusting, shameful, and, yes, EVIL, the behavior of these so-called “parents” is, and how disgusting, shameful, and EVIL the parents themselves are. It says if you protect an abuser by tolerating or minimizing abuse, then you are just as guilty as he is. It brings things that are often hushed-up or whispered about out into the open, and gives others the courage to stand up and tell it like it is, too. It makes a big deal out of something that many people would just as soon pretend isn’t happening or isn’t really that bad. It makes it UNACCEPTABLE to ACCEPT abuse. It drives home the point that abuse, and enabling abuse, is NOT “accidental.” It is NOT something “they can’t help.” It is NOT a “mistake” or a “misunderstanding.” It is DESPICABLE. It is INTENTIONAL, DELIBERATE, and supremely SELFISH. Abusers victimize others to get their own needs met, and their enablers allow it, and even encourage it, to make their own lives easier and to get their own needs met. It’s a sick, twisted dynamic.

And they continue until they are exposed, or better yet, arrested. They continue until the silence is broken. They continue until we stop circumventing the issues, coddling them, walking on eggshells around them, and talking about them in nice, mild, smiley-face terms that are vague, deceptive, and fail to present the TRUE picture and emphasize the gravity of it to the listener. It’s not OUR fault if the truth is ugly.

They continue until they are embarrassed and shamed. Until someone stands up and shouts the truth about them from the rooftops. They continue until the people who know them stop sugar-coating their behavior, sweeping it under the rug, and making excuses for them, and start looking at them with the appropriate revulsion and loathing. They continue until nobody wants to be associated with them anymore, until others start avoiding them like the plague, and warning everybody else to stay away, too. In the Bible, this is referred to as “shunning”, and it’s meant to produce shame and repentance. They continue until it gets through, not just to them, but to everyone around them, that what they are doing is WRONG, wicked, evil, and bad, bad, bad. Until we make our opinions of their behavior so crystal clear that there can be no mistaking our repulsion and condemnation for anything even slightly milder. They continue until we start forcing them to OWN what they are: degenerate, sadistic, sociopathic, psychopathic, low-life, dirtbags.

As for me, believe it or not, I do try to tone it down a bit. Imagine what my ramblings would sound like if I didn’t! But I am what I am, too. I don’t believe in making light of stuff like this. My calling as a Christian is to minister to the VICTIMS, not the abusers. Victims need to know that other people support them and agree that what was done to them was terrible, and that the lowlifes who did it are terrible. Survivors need to know that we validate them and their experiences. I’m here to help victims heal, to give them a voice, a nice, BIG voice, not to help abusers gloss over, justify and feel okay with, or even good about, what they’ve done. Abusers don’t deserve the privilege of being able to walk among the rest of us with their heads held high. I believe in letting the dirtbags live with the consequences of their own actions, including shame, embarrassment, and the disgust of good people everywhere. That’s the way God made me. And I believe in keeping it up, relentlessly, until MAYBE, just maybe, they’ll repent of their evil ways, turn to the Lord, and be saved.

Let me assure you, if I see anything like this happening in my church, there is going to be HELL to pay...

 

[Abaxvahl]

Does it seem harsh or un-Christian-like to you to refer to a child rapist as a pervert and a dirtbag? Or to call someone who would terrorize her own 2-year old to the point that he can’t catch his breath and is gasping for air, and then laugh at his panic, a sadist and a sociopath? Or to call a mother who stays married to the pedophile who raped her child, fails to do anything to protect that child, and then tops it all off by babysitting OTHER PEOPLE’S children and leaving them alone with the pervert so he can (and did) rape THEM too, a lowlife who belongs in the cell next to him? Is calling a baby-killer a “murderer” going to hurt his poor widdle feewings? Is there even a name bad enough, or should I say “descriptive” enough, to call a mother who would set up her own child to be raped repeatedly by her husband, to keep him from focusing his attention on HER? What about a father who pimps out his children to his friends for money and beer? Or the jackass who has a fight with his girlfriend and then beats their 5-week old baby to death for spite to get back at her? Or the parents who lock their child in a room for seven years, make her use a litter box for a bathroom, and starve her so badly that she weighs only 35 pounds when she finally dies?

"Sinners," as we all are. Suffering from the willful habit of separating ourselves from the Lord in order to steal His glory and desecrate creation.