Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

guevaraj · Nov 30, 2024

HIM said:
You said they did not have access to the Gospel of Jesus that is the theme of Hebrews three and four.

Brother, the original word for “good news” does not always refer to what the King James Version translated as Gospel. That is why this translation does not use the word Gospel as in the King James Version, preferring to use its true meaning of “good news” so as not to confuse its use in other contexts such as in the book of Hebrews where it is not capitalized because it has a different usage.

Let me now remind you, dear brothers and sisters, of the Good News (translated as Gospel in the KJV) I preached to you before. You welcomed it then, and you still stand firm in it. It is this Good News (translated as Gospel in the KJV) that saves you if you continue to believe the message I told you—unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in the first place. (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NLT)

Note that it is capitalized above but not below to differentiate it from what the King James Version translated as Gospel above, so as not to confuse the use of the original word in other contexts such as below in the book of Hebrews where it has a different usage.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news (not the same use as Gospel above in the KJV)—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news (not the same use as Gospel above in the KJV) failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

HIM · Nov 30, 2024

guevaraj said:
Brother, the original word for “good news” does not always refer to what the King James Version translated as Gospel. That is why this translation does not use the word Gospel as in the King James Version, preferring to use its true meaning of “good news” so as not to confuse its use in other contexts such as in the book of Hebrews where it is not capitalized because it has a different usage.

Let me now remind you, dear brothers and sisters, of the Good News (translated as Gospel in the KJV) I preached to you before. You welcomed it then, and you still stand firm in it. It is this Good News (translated as Gospel in the KJV) that saves you if you continue to believe the message I told you—unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in the first place. (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NLT)

Note that it is capitalized above but not below to differentiate it from what the King James Version translated as Gospel above, so as not to confuse the use of the original word in other contexts such as below in the book of Hebrews where it has a different usage.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news (not the same use as Gospel above in the KJV)—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news (not the same use as Gospel above in the KJV) failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You are not addressing anything posted to you. I just pray that others see. I am done with until you do.

Leaf473 · Nov 30, 2024

HIM said:
Their posts of scripture show your orthodoxy is unorthodox. And that the arguments against are baseless.

HIM said:
In fact they very seldom deal with the text shared.

Hi HIM

I dealt extensively with Acts 10 in post #323 as you had asked, focusing on katharos, akatharos, and koinos, as you suggested.

(This came up as we were discussing Romans 14:5
One man esteems one day as more important. Another esteems every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind )

I don't see your response to that post. I invite you to follow up, if you wish

Aaron112 · Nov 30, 2024

Jerry N. said:
If the Council of Laodicea tried to stop keeping the Sabbath on Saturday in canon 29, it must have been a common practice.

Sinning has always been common. Adultery, idolatry, disobeying YHVH, not honoring Shabbat, lying, greed, covetousness - all common, many times promoted!

ozso · Nov 30, 2024

Jerry N. said:
If the Council of Laodicea tried to stop keeping the Sabbath on Saturday in canon 29, it must have been a common practice.

Aaron112 said:
Sinning has always been common. Adultery, idolatry, disobeying YHVH, not honoring Shabbat, lying, greed, covetousness - all common, many times promoted!

The Council of Laodicea established an edict against Judaizing. Paul spoke against Judaizing in Galatians.

HIM · Dec 1, 2024

ozso said:
2000 years of Christian orthodoxy is only unorthodox according to latter-day fringe sects and cults.

And the Bible, the word of God in a lot of circumstances

HIM · Dec 1, 2024

Leaf473 said:
Right, because he sees all kinds of animals

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10:12 - New American Standard Bible

and on it were all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the sky.

www.biblegateway.com

But keep in mind he only mentions seeing Common and unclean animals.

Him said, He said he had never ate anything common or unclean.

Leaf473 said:
Right, though there's a textual question about whether it's common OR unclean or common AND unclean

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10:14 - New American Standard Bible

But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.”

www.biblegateway.com

Keep in mind in respect to that, that there is no "textual question" in the retelling of the vision in 11:8 or the giving of the actual reason for the vision in 10:28. In both these circumstances there is a distinction being made between what is common and unclean. They are not the same in Peter's eyes.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Acts 11:8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.

Leaf473 said:
But let's assume it's supposed to be OR and follow that out

I try not to assume anything.

Leaf473 said:
Those that had started out clean, but had been made common maybe through touching something unclean?

Yes. That is why Peter did not see anything that he could eat when all manner of animals were shown him.

Leaf473 said:
So three categories, it looks to me

No two. Common and unclean. There were no clean animals due to the intermingling.

Leaf473 said:
It looks to me like God is referring to all animals, since that's what was in the vision

No. He only mentions cleansing the common. He never mentions cleansing the unclean.

Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Leaf473 said:
Possibly because he saw them in close proximity to the unclean animals?

Right

Leaf473 said:
They were all in the same sheet? Peter was steeped in the traditions of the Pharisees,

Regardless, God said that if something clean touched an unclean thing the clean thing was unclean.

That has nothing to do with the Pharisees and their manmade traditions

Leaf473 said:
I'm especially interested in your take on Romans 14:20 about all things being clean.

But maybe you've answered that recently, and I just haven't gotten to that post yet

The same word used for common in Acts 10:14,15,28 is the same word a few translations mistranslated unclean in Romans 14. In Romans 14 Paul is only addressing Animals that were considered common due to defilement not the unclean ones.

ozso · Dec 1, 2024

ozso · Dec 1, 2024

HIM said:
And the Bible, the word of God in a lot of circumstances

The word of God is used in virtually every unorthodox doctrine and heresy. Even Muslims use verses from the New Testament to substantiate Islam.

Leaf473 · Dec 1, 2024

HIM said:
But keep in mind he only mentions seeing Common and unclean animals.

(I do plan to deal with your entire post, but I wanted to get this question out of the way first )

What Peter says is that he has never eaten anything common or unclean (koinos or akatharos)

Not that those were the only animals that he saw

What is in the sheet is all tetrapods "πάντα τὰ τετράποδα" as well as other classes of animals

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10:14 - New American Standard Bible

But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.”

www.biblegateway.com

Now, important question, if I'm following your post right:

Could there have been both a cow and a sow in the sheet? Would that fit the text?

HIM said:
Keep in mind in respect to that, that there is no "textual question" in the retelling of the vision in 11:8 or the giving of the actual reason for the vision in 10:28. In both these circumstances there is a distinction being made between what is common and unclean. They are not the same in Peter's eyes.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Acts 11:8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.

I try not to assume anything.

Yes. That is why Peter did not see anything that he could eat when all manner of animals were shown him.

No two. Common and unclean. There were no clean animals due to the intermingling.

No. He only mentions cleansing the common. He never mentions cleansing the unclean.

Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Right

Regardless, God said that if something clean touched an unclean thing the clean thing was unclean.

That has nothing to do with the Pharisees and their manmade traditions

The same word used for common in Acts 10:14,15,28 is the same word a few translations mistranslated unclean in Romans 14. In Romans 14 Paul is only addressing Animals that were considered common due to defilement not the unclean ones.

Leaf473 · Dec 1, 2024

Leaf473 said:
Could there have been both a cow and a sow in the sheet? Would that fit the text?

And an additional question

if yes to the above, is Peter being told to eat both the cow and the sow, @HIM?

FreeinChrist · Dec 1, 2024

ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a small clean up. Please keep it civil.

Michael Z · Dec 1, 2024

I confess I did not read the 600+ posts but I will say I keep the sabbath, not out of obligation, but rather with thanksgiving. I take it as a time to rest. My body appreciates it and I do relaxing activities like watching a show or putting a puzzle together. Sometimes I wonder if churches like to cram too many activities into a Sunday and keep an ultra tight schedule with no wiggle room. Like today, the roads were icy and service started with opening hymns exactly at 11:00, as opposed to giving folks a few minutes. I like punctuality myself for business meetings, but I don’t think a sabbath service should be like that.

BNR32FAN · Dec 1, 2024

SabbathBlessings said:
Do you really want to go through this all again? We have discussed for a few years now. Only a thus saith the Lord that we don't have to keep the Sabbath will convince me. So far no has produced this scripture.

I’ve quoted Colossians 2:16 more times than I can count which says exactly that. You just always bring up the “ordinances” argument that doesn’t stand up to scripture.

BNR32FAN · Dec 1, 2024

SabbathBlessings said:
The apostles observed every Sabbath just as Jesus commanded them to observe everything He commanded, The Sabbath is the only day God gave a name and number. God said the Sabbath is on the seventh day Exo 20:10 who is above God to change anything He wrote and He spoke. No one. Why its still called the Sabbath all throughout the bible and the fact its still called it in the NT is proof it never went anywhere for God's people.

A really good example of the apostles teaching the gentiles is when they begged for more gospel preaching on the next Sabbath, instead of the apostles correcting them and saying, church is now day 1.

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Did they do that? No, almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God on the Sabbath

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

And the gentiles were also keeping every Sabbath with the Jews along with the apostles

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

It was noted the apostles kept every Sabbath in several places, nothing to indicate they did not follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ who also kept the Sabbath in the same manner Luke 4:16-17

If we abide in Him we will also keep His commandments
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Following in His footsteps 1 John 2: 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Thats what a Christian means, to be a follower of Christ- He will only lead us on the narrow path back to reconciliation Rev 22:14

Do you really want to go through this all again? We have discussed for a few years now. Only a thus saith the Lord that we don't have to keep the Sabbath will convince me. So far no has produced this scripture. I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me or yourself. The Sabbath is a pillar of Truth- God started it at Creation when everything was according to God's perfect plan. God kept, Jesus kept, His faithful followers kept, His apostles kept, all of His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 and I know I can't sanctify or bless myself and without His blessing or sanctification we really are nothing. God blessed, man simply cannot reverse Num 23:20 and sad they try so hard.

Jesus told them to teach the disciples to observe all that He had taught them. They never once told anyone to keep the Sabbath in the scriptures. Paul specifically taught the exact opposite in Colossians 2:16.

JesusFollowerForever · Dec 1, 2024

Bob S said:
Did Jesus fulfil the prophesies concerning His coming? I assume you will answer yes. So, that would mean that Jesus brought to an end the prophesies concerning Him. Jesus own word were I came to fulfil the Law and the prophets. If He brought to an end the prophesies then because He stated He also in the same sentence He had to have meant He brought the Law to an end. You cannot have it both ways now can you? Paul states in 2Cor3:6-11 that the 10 commandments were only temporary. The King James version states that they were "done away". The Laws of the old covenant stopped at Calvary where Jeus introduced the new and better covenant of Grace. He ratified it with His own blood. 2Cor 3:6-11 also states that the Holy Spirit replaced the 10 commandments. Mankind is now guided by the Blessed Holy Spirit not some commands that were written on stones that Israel filed to keep.

no not yet he did not fulfill the prophecy about his second coming and the establishment of the millennial kingdom,

Bob S said:
Have you been reading the writings of Ellen White, the prophet of the SDAs? She taught that the 10 commandments reflects God's character. That is a completely false statement. Are you aware that there is not one word in all of the 10 commandments that asked the Israelites to love God or their fellow man. Is Jesus God? Have you studied John 15:10 14. Love is the great theme of all of the New Covenant teachings

I do know who Ellen G white is but I did not read her writings so I cannot comment.

Jesus' summary of the Ten Commandments in those two great commandments captures the essence of the Decalogue. The first four commandments focus on our relationship with God worshipping Him exclusively, not making idols, not taking His name in vain, and keeping the Sabbath holy. These align with Jesus' teaching to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind" (Matthew 22:37, referencing Deuteronomy 6:5).

The last six commandments address our relationships with others, honouring parents, not murdering, not committing adultery, not stealing, not bearing false witness, and not coveting. These reflect the command to "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39, referencing Leviticus 19:18).

In this way, Jesus emphasizes that love, toward God and others, is the foundation of the law and the prophets.

you can consult some commentaries most would, I believe say the same things,

Bob S said:
Not one jot or one tittle would pass from the Law until ALL Jesus came to do was fulfilled. If you think, for some reason, you can separate out part of the Law you are not understanding what Jesus said. Until Jesus brought to an end to the old covenant with its over 613 laws not on jot could be removed from the Law.

Moral laws are forever. Israel's Sabbaths were ceremonial. The ceremonial laws were for one nation, Israel. Not one other nation has been instructed by God to observe any day.

Is that what scripture tells us? Where did you pick up that tidbit of falsehood?

what falsehood? please explain, did I make a mistake? please clarify.

Bob S said:
Open my heart to what you are proclaiming? My heart is open to the real truth. I, at one time, was indoctrinated to what you are posting. I began studying the Word in place of trusting the doctrines of a church that was based on a woman's false visions.

who did indoctrinate you? who is that woman with her false visions. I am not part of any denomination, I follow Christ and him only, i follow no preacher, I do not go to church simply because I could never find one that followed the truths of what Jesus is teaching. Also I do not know everything far from it I will speak only of what I know and am certain, If I do not know I something ( it happens a lot) would let you know. the bible has many layers of truths and it takes time to see them and we see only what the Holy spirit of God, the comforter lets us know, for instance I do not know much about end time prophecy , certain aspects of it are obscure to me some other not.

I am willing to discuss anything with you but I suggest that we try to go about one topic at a time for the sake or clarity.

so now let me know of this falsehood you speak of.

Blessings.

BNR32FAN · Dec 1, 2024

SabbathBlessings said:
They are ordinances are different from the commandments as shown ...

Neh 9:13 “You came down also on Mount Sinai,
And spoke with them from heaven,
And gave them just ordinances and true laws,
Good statutes and commandments.

Its the context as well, there are no food, drink offerings, new moons, sabbath(s) etc in the Ten Commandments the Ten Commandments were not handwritten, they were written by the finger of God. The weekly Sabath, is "the" Sabbath" that is holy and blessed by God, not the definition of contrary and against. Hebrews 9:10-15 and Hebrews 10:1-22 show which shadow laws its pointing to- animal sacrifices pointing to Christ. Not any of the Ten Commandments which is what s sin when breaking. Rom 7:7 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30

How does something God blessed and made holy become contrary and against? Only God can reverse His blessing Num 23:20, when did He do that on the Sabbath?

God said:

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who [a]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Verse 15 tells us which set of commandments.

God identified His law as plainly as He could possibly do. God wrote it with His own finger on stone Exo 31:18 He spoke it with His own voice Exo 20:1 He numbered them by design Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 He said no more was added to His Ten Commandments Deut 5:22 and then right in this unit of Ten that He wrote and He spoke He collectively called them "My commandments" and said if you love Me, keep them Exo 20:6. I don't think there was much more God could have done to express His will for mankind Psa 40:8 Heb 8:10. Is there someone greater than God? I am not aware of anyone else who is greater than God and God put His signature/seal right in the Sabbath commandment- showing His name ( God) Title (Creator) and Territory (Heaven and Earth) Exo 20:11

God said Remember- Man says forget. Jesus said He is Lord of the Sabbath man says get rid of it.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

We will see how it all plays out soon enough.

The passages I quoted specifically referred to the 10 commandments as statutes and ordinances. Are you just going to ignore that fact and keep pretending that the passage doesn’t say what it actually says?

ozso · Dec 1, 2024

Michael Z said:
I confess I did not read the 600+ posts but I will say I keep the sabbath, not out of obligation, but rather with thanksgiving. I take it as a time to rest. My body appreciates it and I do relaxing activities like watching a show or putting a puzzle together. Sometimes I wonder if churches like to cram too many activities into a Sunday and keep an ultra tight schedule with no wiggle room. Like today, the roads were icy and service started with opening hymns exactly at 11:00, as opposed to giving folks a few minutes. I like punctuality myself for business meetings, but I don’t think a sabbath service should be like that.

Church can be hectic for many. Especially for those with kids. I think the perfect formula is sleep in and rest on Saturday and worship and fellowship on Sunday the Lord's Day. If one is blessed enough to have a M thru F work schedule that is.

SabbathBlessings · Dec 2, 2024

BNR32FAN said:
I’ve quoted Colossians 2:16 more times than I can count which says exactly that. You just always bring up the “ordinances” argument that doesn’t stand up to scripture.

So if you believe the Sabbath ended at the Cross that somehow what God blessed and made holy became contrary and against and something God wrote with His own finger became handwritten by Moses. Only God can reverse His blessing on the Sabbath - where is the thus saith the Lord?

Jesus in His own Words rebukes this sad misinterpretation of Col 2:14-17 leading many people to disobey one of God's written and spoken commandments as if anyone has more Authority than God.

Jesus said the Sabbath would be kept decades after His Cross for His faithful up to His Second Coming.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day

Thats fine you can believe Paul's words over Jesus. Paul can't save you, but Jesus is the way, the Truth and life...

Paul a servant of Christ was hard to understand hence why we have this warning people twist his teachings 2 Peter 3:16 and a good application of it is pitting Paul to contradict Jesus our Lord, Savior and Redeemer. Not even something Paul kept Col 2:16 the way people misinterpret as he was faithful to God's commandments decades after the Cross Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 Acts 15:21 Acts 13:16 etc etc because that is what a Christian does, they follow the Lamb

SabbathBlessings · Dec 2, 2024

Michael Z said:
I confess I did not read the 600+ posts but I will say I keep the sabbath, not out of obligation, but rather with thanksgiving. I take it as a time to rest. My body appreciates it and I do relaxing activities like watching a show or putting a puzzle together. Sometimes I wonder if churches like to cram too many activities into a Sunday and keep an ultra tight schedule with no wiggle room. Like today, the roads were icy and service started with opening hymns exactly at 11:00, as opposed to giving folks a few minutes. I like punctuality myself for business meetings, but I don’t think a sabbath service should be like that.

Just so you are aware this is the Sabbath commandment.

Written and spoken personally by God.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Sunday is the first day of the week, the Sabbath is the seventh day or Saturday.

God bless!

Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

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