Why Vaccinations Shouldn't be Optional

[Go Braves]

I have no problems acknowledging real concerns from all of us as consumers. What I do not like is the spreading of misinformation. I am particularly disturbed by someone such as @Saricharity who appears to have such poor strengths at analysing research. Ive seen her refer to several articles and then extrapolate well beyond the reported results. Normally I wouldn't care what anyone writes here on CF. But in a topic such as this when someone is pretending to be informed and misinforming on critical societal issues, then i take exception.

I shall start dropping systematic reviews for readers to make their own judgements as the wilful misinformation that people like @Saricharity with zero background in these matters, is harmful to at risk groups particularly neonates, in-uterine fetuses, the elderly, and the immunodeficient.


I need to say again to any reading watching - Its not that vaccines are free from adverse events - They do but they are (depending on the vaccine) in the order of 2:100 000. I also need to highlight that foods such as peanuts, fish and natural therapy products have similar rates of adverse events.

You've touched on the real problem, @Zoii. Misinformation. The one link I saw from @Saricharity is to a blog site run where anonymous folks give misinformation about medical studies. I clicked on a few. Those bloggers prey upon the ignorance of folks who feel too intimidated to read the medical studies for themselves & instead just trust the "analysis" given of them. Professionals who have done real research will put their name by it. Will put it up for peer review. They won't post to blogs.

 

[Go Braves]

How Plumbing (Not Vaccines) Eradicated Disease

Well Pat, I'm going to stick with the actual evidence that vaccinations eradicated diseases instead of that lifestyle blog. If I want to buy myself a $40 laxative (intestinal cleanse) I'll go back to that lifestyle blog. I have no doubt that plumbing sure did help out mankind but it's not what caused the end of polio, smallpox.

I see a third world plague coming to California due to
the amount of fecal matter and waste needles being
dumped into the streets by the homeless and illegal
aliens. Then again, it's already happening, and they
just aren't widely reporting it. Yet.
California declares state of emergency over deadly hepatitis A outbreak

Sign of the times:
San Francisco poop map: real thing or a rumor?

Well Pat, this is what the doctor in your source said

"Vaccinating people at risk of exposure is the most effective tool we have to prevent the spread of hepatitis A," said California Department of Public Health Director Dr. Karen Smith.

The hepatitis A shot is already required for children, but now health officials are recommending it for people who are homeless and drug users.

I'm glad it's required for children.

 

[pat34lee]

Various such matter and worse is being used 'legally'? on farmer's crop's soil across the usa --- a guarantee of future plagues , (and cause of past plagues) , beyond anything seen before ......

Specifically, human fecal waste. And yes, the
workers are crapping in the fields, here and
in Mexico, making people sick who eat it.

Hungry yet?
FDA: Mexicans Defecating in Farm Fields Getting Americans Sick
https://www.amren.com/news/2014/06/immigrants-bringing-diseases-across-border/

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Specifically, human fecal waste. And yes, the
workers are crapping in the fields, here and
in Mexico, making people sick who eat it.

Various city water treatment plants have recently admitted they are allowed legally (and do) to sell the human excrement to farmers for fertilizer .

(treatment at the water treatment plants may not do anything to stop the spreading of drugs and disease , viruses and bacteria and pesticides and heavy metal toxins,
to the farmer's fields) Possibly the "sunshine" over the fields is supposed to help!?!?
Even toxin/ drugs in the tap water are not required to be removed ! ! ! They don't even have to tell anyone what is in the water ! (including of toxic heavy metals from the contaminated bleach they ADD on purpose all the time to the tap water instead of food-grade bleach to add 'desired' chlorine to the water supply)...
From this, it gets worse..... day after day....

 

[pat34lee]

I'm glad it's required for children.

On the off chance that they will go abuse
drugs with dirty needles? Sounds like the
excuse for giving a vaccine to young girls
for HPV, just in case they decide to have
sex with an infected person.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Decades ago was published a book called "The Poisoning of America". Anyone know if it is still published or available ? (I couldn't find it since about 15 years ago)

 

[Go Braves]

On the off chance that they will go abuse
drugs with dirty needles?

LOL! Well Pat, in the article you posted it explains how Hepatitis A is commonly transmitted through contaminated food. Children eat food, Pat! With little kids, they often don't show symptoms of Hep A like adults. So they can be running around, wiping snot off their nose, sticking their hands in their mouths & sharing toys, with nobody realizing they're contagious till it's too late. The vaccine helps to prevent outbreaks, on top of protecting the kids.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The vaccine helps to prevent outbreaks, on top of protecting the kids.

"They" say. "your opinion" , often disputed, and often statistics show otherwise, depending on "they" and who you choose to trust.

Also not considering the other ways that were used for centuries to stop and to prevent outbreaks, that worked and may often work better than injections of toxins into the children's bodies to try to accomplish something that might never be a problem, and often doesn't work anyway ! (a placebo often works more often than the toxins used ! ) (placeboes may work 60% of the time, and toxins might work 20% of the time) .... give or take whatever you want to think before finding out for real.

 

[Saricharity]

You realize there's aluminum in food, right? Lol.

Are you seriously comparing ingestion to injection? I hope not because there is no comparison.

 

[Saricharity]

I'm happy to see people seriously looking at this topic.
I always hope people will look beyond just the surface.

It did not abandon vaccination during that time. It practiced notification, isolation, quarantine, disinfection AND vaccinations.

No, not during the time frame I quoted. During that time period, they abandoned vaccination.

Chicken pox isn't deadly for most folks but it's caused serious problems for some. A gal on here has talked about how awful it was for her, ruined her health for life. Have you ever had shingles, or known anybody who has? It's horrible. Better to prevent it.

Yes, I am familiar with that girl, and I am sorry that happened to her.
Yes, I have had shingles. It is a horrible affliction. The varicella vaccination does NOT prevent shingles. Anyone who has had chickenpox or the chickenpox vaccine is at risk for the painful skin condition. Both diseases are caused by the varicella-zoster virus, which stays in the body after chickenpox clears and may reactivate later in life. The vaccine sheds as well. A child in my church who was immunocompromised from cancer treatment caught chicken pox from his sister who was vaccinated against it. He was very sick. It was a horrible time for his entire family.
There is speculation that vaccinating for CP has caused shingles to occur in children and younger adults. In the past, only the elderly came down with shingles. That is no longer true. Coming in contact with children with chickenpox actually is an immunity boost for adults and helps prevent shingles. Now they have created a vaccine for shingles as well.
Shot may help shield against shingles
I will pass but thought I'd leave that here.

you got into a huff.

Isn't it interesting you thought I was in a huff? Must be because this is a forum. Just so you know, I am way past getting in a huff over what is posted in an internet forum.

Well if it was actually true it would concern me, but it's not.

Except it is true. Show me evidence that it is not.

The inaccuracies he spewed out have caused messes to be cleaned up for the past 2 decades. I don't feel the least bit sorry for that charlatan.

And you continue to perpetuate lies about him instead of finding out the real truth. Have you read his side? I highly doubt you have. You likely believe everything you have read about him on the internet. It's quite a shame actually.
A 2012 UK High Court ruled that the verdicts of professional misconduct and ethics violations by the British General Medical Council “were unsupported by the evidence.” Vera Sharav conducted an extensive review of the Wakefield charges. She summarized her report as follows:

“All of the documented evidence and testimonies submitted to the General Medical Council, upon which GMC issued its guilty verdicts against Dr. Wakefield and his two co-defendants in 2010, were subsequently forensically assessed by the UK High Court in March 2012, in the appeal of Professor John Walker-Smith, the senior clinician and senior author of the Lancet case series. The High Court determined that the verdicts of professional misconduct and ethics violations were unsupported by the evidence.”

In rendering the High Court decision, after thorough assessment of all the evidence, testimonies and verdicts by the UK General Medical Council (GMC), Justice John Mitting overturned the verdicts and excoriated the entire GMC proceedings as: “not legitimate,” “perverse,” “unsustainable” and “untenable.”

The following is a link to the entire in-depth report: L’affaire Wakefield: Shades of Dreyfus & BMJ’s Descent into Tabloid Science - AHRP

If anyone is to blame for the past two centuries, it's the media. They twist the truth and are so good at fear-mongering.

So you're not an anti-vaxxer, you just play one on the internet?

Nope, neither.
As I said before, I'm pro-informed choice.
If you have done your research and you feel informed and comfortable rolling up your sleeve to be injected, then, by all means, do so. Just do not force others to follow suit.

I am fervently against forced medical intervention.
There is no such thing as one drug that fits all....that includes vaccines.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Are you seriously comparing ingestion to injection? I hope not because there is no comparison.

Nope, not the same thing. And yet both result in absorption of things into the body. And fundamentally toxicity is defined by dose. Even oxygen is toxic at a high enough dose. If the body absorbs far more of something through regular diet than would ever happen through a vaccine, without ill effect, then fear over something being in a vaccine at a perfectly safe level is nothing more than irrational fear.

If I'm more likely to have more mercury absorbed into my body through the consumption of a plate of fish and chips than a vaccine, then either I should become terrified of eating fish; or else recognize that toxicity is about dose. Eating a plate of fish and chips isn't going to hurt me, at least not in regard to potential mercury content.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I am fervently against forced medical intervention.

Got it. So if someone sees you at a restaurant and you end up choking on a piece of food that went down the wrong pipe, nobody should do anything about it--but let you choke to death.

As for me? Big fan of forced medical intervention. If I'm choking, help me. If my heart stops beating, zap me. If I'm drowning, pull me ashore and give me CPR. I'm totally down with intervening to save my life, or intervening to save the lives of others.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Kaon]

It should be an individual's choice to inject one's self with what one considers poison, or cure. There should be no mandatory requirement for vaccines for many reasons. I am not fine with people dying every year from the flu after taking a vaccine. I do not want to take squalene or any other adjuvant IM, IV or PO. I certainly do not want a vaccine with such things that I must take every year.

This is insane.

 

[Saricharity]

the wilful misinformation that people like @Saricharity with zero background in these matters, is harmful to at risk groups particularly neonates, in-uterine fetuses, the elderly, and the immunodeficient.

I never claimed to have a doctorate in immunology. Do you?
But, if I cause even one person to look deeper into the topic and not just blindly roll up their or their children's sleeve, then THAT will be good.
I want people to be INFORMED and maybe even ask to read a vaccine insert.
I want people to have a conversation with their doctor. Ask questions.
Most doctors have no clue what is in vaccines.
Vaccines can be harmful to at-risk groups, particularly babies, the elderly and the immunocompromised.
Two sides to every story.
An emerging body of evidence indicates that vaccines can damage a child’s developing brain and immune system, leading to neurodevelopmental disorders, learning disabilities, ADHD, asthma, anaphylactic food allergies, diabetes and autoimmune disorders.
Vaccination: Basic Concerns - Vaccine Choice Canada

@Saricharity who appears to have such poor strengths at analysing research.

Nope, I'm actually very good at it. I just don't analyze it for anyone else.

in a topic such as this when someone is pretending to be informed and misinforming on critical societal issues, then i take exception.

Well, it's a good thing I am not misinforming.
I am providing another perspective and hopefully, others quietly reading along will be spurred to do their own research and not blindly believe the mainstream.
Asking questions is good.

 

[Saricharity]

As for me? Big fan of forced medical intervention. If I'm choking, help me. If my heart stops beating, zap me. If I'm drowning, pull me ashore and give me CPR. I'm totally down with intervening to save my life, or intervening to save the lives of others.

You are so incredibly funny.

 

[Saricharity]

Professionals who have done real research will put their name by it. Will put it up for peer review. They won't post to blogs.

Except many professionals who have done real research and have nothing to gain by doing so have been vilified because they have dared to question vaccines...so it makes perfect sense why they will remain anonymous.
They state their reasons quite clearly.

Vaccine Papers Is Anonymous
This blog is anonymous for these reasons:
1) To avoid nasty “ad hominem” personal attacks and internet harassment.
2) To focus attention where it belongs: the science. Our goal is to encourage people to look at the scientific evidence for themselves, and anonymity furthers that goal.
3) “Argument by authority” is not respected here. What matters is the science, and nothing else.
Objective, science-based analysis of vaccine dangers

They are not the only ones who have concerns about Aluminum adjuvants.
Aluminum FAQs

There are more and more professionals with concerns.

 

[Saricharity]

Well if you decide to bring that up, Saricharity, post it in the Conspiracy Theories section.

Instead, I will post this.
146 Research Papers Supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link | Autism Spectrum | Autism

Dr. Thompson claims the federal agency ordered him and his colleagues to destroy study findings that confirmed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism. Representative Bill Posey read Dr. Thompson’s statement into the Congressional record. REP Bill Posey Calling Investigation CDC's MMR reasearch fraud

Until the cause of autism is known, to make the claim – “vaccines do not cause autism” is unscientific and irresponsible.

where anonymous folks give misinformation about medical studies. I clicked on a few.

Show me the misinformation you read.

Well most childhood vaccines in the US don't contain mercury anymore & haven't in a long time. If you'd really done your research you'd know that fact.

Except I have.

The thimerosal-containing influenza vaccine is recommended at least annually and occasionally twice annually for children and even for women who are pregnant. The undisputed fact is children regularly receive vaccinations that contain thimerosal. To make the claim that “there aren’t any childhood vaccines that contain thimerosal” is blatantly dishonest.

 

[Saricharity]

@Saricharity although espousing to be an expert

I never once espoused to be an expert on immunology.
I am passionately against vaccines being mandated. I am passionately against any medical intervention being mandated.
Mandatory vaccination violates the medical ethic of informed consent, the Nuremberg Code, and the Universal Declaration of Bioethics and Human Rights.

To anyone here including @Saricharity if you have an argument then place your double-blinded control research papers down for the reader to analyse.

The safety of the current CDC vaccine schedule has never been proven in large, long-term clinical trials.

No independent trials confirm the safety of giving multiple vaccinations at once.

The current vaccine schedule has never been tested for safety in the real world way in which the schedule is implemented.

Most vaccine safety trials use control groups consisting of other vaccinated populations or placebos
containing aluminum. These are not true placebos.

 

[Saricharity]

Nope, not the same thing. And yet both result in absorption of things into the body. And fundamentally toxicity is defined by dose. Even oxygen is toxic at a high enough dose. If the body absorbs far more of something through regular diet than would ever happen through a vaccine, without ill effect, then fear over something being in a vaccine at a perfectly safe level is nothing more than irrational fear.

If I'm more likely to have more mercury absorbed into my body through the consumption of a plate of fish and chips than a vaccine, then either I should become terrified of eating fish; or else recognize that toxicity is about dose. Eating a plate of fish and chips isn't going to hurt me, at least not in regard to potential mercury content.

-CryptoLutheran

Injecting vaccines directly into the muscle is much more likely to result in toxic outcomes since only 0.25% of dietary aluminum is absorbed systemically, and even that is rapidly filtered out by the kidneys, whereas injected aluminum is absorbed into the blood almost entirely, and accumulates much more readily in the brain and various internal organs.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Injecting vaccines directly into the muscle is much more likely to result in toxic outcomes since only 0.25% of dietary aluminum is absorbed systemically, and even that is rapidly filtered out by the kidneys, whereas injected aluminum is absorbed into the blood almost entirely, and accumulates much more readily in the brain and various internal organs.

1. Kidneys work by filtering your blood.
2. Where do you think absorbed aluminum from ingestion goes in order to get filtered by the kidneys. Answer: See point number 1

-CryptoLutheran