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Why Vaccinations Shouldn't be Optional

Zoii

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I'm arguing for freedom of choice, and for the freedom to practice what we personally believe, as long as we don't measurably infringe on anyone else's right to do the same.
So i guess then your position is that ones choice NOT to vaccinate DOESNT impact on anyone else. But if you believe it DID impact on others, you would support mandatory vaccination?

OR - another example of that is - you chose not to vaccinate - you contracted a virulent form of Turbucleosis, so the government has enforced clinical isolation on you - Do you believe the governments action was fair? (and this does happen in USA and Australia for certain types of comunnicable diseases)
 
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ananda

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My position is first: freedom, and secondly: recompense after the fact, by proving injury or trespass.

My position is definitely not: "prevention" before the fact, under the opinion of those who think they know better than everyone else. (If this were the case, then perhaps imposing the Buddhist Path upon everyone would be a fine idea, under the idea that I think I know better than everyone else, for example.)
 
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Zoii

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Ok I acknowledge you have fixed ideas - but you see the whole paradigm of health is prevention FIRST, and Disease Response SECOND. It pervades everything in health (though Im not an expert because Im doing science at uni ). The whole issue around keeping healthy by eating correctly, exercise etc is about prevention which is way better than waiting until you have diabetes and then responding with treatment.

The same is true of our infectious diseases. It is better to prevent the diease rather than teating it. thats why health depts advocate the use of condoms, sanitation, handwashing and yes - vaccination.

When any of us gets an infection it has a ripple effect that isnt isolated to just YOU. You inevitably spread your infection even before you realise you have it. You have time off work which effects your industry. You pass it onto family members. You consume the health care budget dollar. And for you personally, you have a period of not being the person you want to be.

I know I wont change your view, but I hope you understand the reasons why it is that those of us that strongly support compulsaory vaccination do so. You also have to acknowledge that freedoms to choose also means institutions are free to choose how they will respond to your infection. Its why when your child is sick it wont be allowed in a day care centre. And many take it further and say if your not immunized you cant come in. They have the welfare of all to consider not just the one who opts out.


Oh and BTW - a buddhist pathway is just fine by me - its a good pathway regardless of your religous beliefs
 
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Denadii

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If your vaccines are so good, and you get yours, why do you worry so much about the fact that I don't. Don't you think your vaccination will protect you from me?
 
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Zoii

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Denadi
If your vaccines are so good, and you get yours, why do you worry so much about the fact that I don't. Don't you think your vaccination will protect you from me?
No I would regard that as being selfish - to just worry about yourself. Being vaccinated I am likely to be just fine. No I worry for those that are vulnerable to your refusal. Eg new born children, the very elderly, or those who have known allergies to vaccine products. The actions of your refusal perpetuates and adds to the incidence of the disease. So yes I'll be fine. You wont. others wont. They are the victims of your actions
 
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ananda

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That is perfectly fine. Everyone has a right to choose however way they wish to address prevention for themselves.

All private individuals & institutions have a right of choice, including the ability to exclude others from private property.
 
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Denadii

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Sorry....Too many people are damaged or killed by these wonder vaccines...They're not putting that junk into this body. No way!
 
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Zoii

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My vaccination is Psalm 91. It has Never failed me. Never made me sick, never damaged me.
I understand what youre saying. I read what I wrote and my writing style sounded really harsh. Sorry I didnt mean to write so harshly, but hope you understood the point I was trying to make.
 
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Zoii

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That is perfectly fine. Everyone has a right to choose however way they wish to address prevention for themselves.


All private individuals & institutions have a right of choice, including the ability to exclude others from private property.
Well if you agree to that then I presume you dont have an issue with excluding people from public areas. After all I and the rest of the community dont want to share a train with someone who has H1N1 influenza
 
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Zoii

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My vaccination is Psalm 91. It has Never failed me. Never made me sick, never damaged me.
Thats really good for you but remember many arent as fortunate as you and dont have your seeming resistance to infection. So if your immune to everything then thats pretty amazing. But what of those who arent so lucky, dont get immunized, get infected, and give it to the vulnerable eg the elderly or infant. They wont even know they would have spread their infection. Yet their action has been a death warrant
 
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ananda

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Well if you agree to that then I presume you dont have an issue with excluding people from public areas. After all I and the rest of the community dont want to share a train with someone who has H1N1 influenza
I stated "private" ... not "public".

I and my community would much rather share a train only with those who follow the Eightfold Path too; but, I accept that in the public realm, there is great room for freedom.
 
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Zoii

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I stated "private" ... not "public".
So you do not advocate for the public health laws that mandatorily quaranteen those who chose not to vaccinate, and contracted an infection the health department deemed as an unacceptable risk to the community?
 
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ananda

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So you do not advocate for the public health laws that mandatorily quaranteen those who chose not to vaccinate, and contracted an infection the health department deemed as an unacceptable risk to the community?
No, I'm not an advocate for that. That is not the proper role for public government.

Governments have misused their power and money for unscrupulous ends, and are untrustworthy to have that power.
 
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Zoii

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No, I'm not an advocate for that. That is not the proper role for public government.
But you are aware those laws already exist and are enforced if you have one of the following
  • Cholera.
  • Diphtheria.
  • Infectious tuberculosis.
  • Plague.
  • Smallpox.
  • Yellow fever.
  • Viral hemorrhagic fevers.
  • Severe acute respiratory syndromes.

and can be invoked with other emerging infectious diseases

Surely youre not advocating that those infected with such disorders have the perrogative to get on a train, go to a shopping centre, drink from the public water fountain, handle the fruit at the grocer, look after children at child care, or share the public toilets.
 
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ananda

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I'm saying that those with an ounce of sense in themselves would voluntarily do what they believe is right.
 
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Zoii

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I'm saying that those with an ounce of sense in themselves would voluntarily do what they believe is right.
Im guessing from how you worded your reply, that your all for applying the law of forced quarantine for those that dont possess that "ounce of sense".

Im also guessing you fully understand that many would not know what was right - hence why they MUST respond to what they are directed to do NOT "what they believe is right" - If you get Ebola I dont want YOU to do what YOU think is right because that may be inadequate and noone wants you to impose your risks on others... and Im also guessing your understanding my point on the value of government actions when it comes to public health.
 
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ananda

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Im guessing from how you worded your reply, that your all for applying the law of forced quarantine for those that dont possess that "ounce of sense".
No, I'm not. Would you like it if I forced you to recant your Christian faith for the Buddhist Path, if I believe you didn't have an ounce of sense?

No, I don't concur.
 
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Zoii

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No, I'm not. Would you like it if I forced you to recant your Christian faith for the Buddhist Path, if I believe you didn't have an ounce of sense?

No, I don't concur.
Well thankfully you are not obviously either a policy maker or enforcer of public health matters lest you be condoning those with Ebola to stroll through our shopping centres. I find your argument on every occasion that you wouldnt impose your religion on anyone so why should anyone place any restrictions on those with virulent infectious diseases, in order to safeguard the community.... I find your argument weak if thats all you can use - and fortunately so do the worlds law makers or Ebola would have annihilated Africa and then continued into Europe and America and Asia.
 
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ananda

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Under your argument, all those who are vaccinated - like yourself - should be stripped of freedoms then, because you are literally carriers of the disease - not those who haven't been vaccinated.
 
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