Why Vaccinations Shouldn't be Optional

[Saricharity]

all people afflicted with shingles immediately realize they have them and need to take proper precautions while contagious.

This is true. My friend had shingles at around the same time as me and she was 16 too. She too thought only seniors developed shingles. Both our mothers and families were puzzled by the diagnosis. However, I question how rare it is because I know other children and teenagers who have had shingles too. Some were vaccinated for chickenpox and some were not.
I didn't know I had shingles until the rash appeared and went to the doctor. My rash was never open blisters so I was told it was not contagious to any of my siblings.

 

[Saricharity]

I still have scars on my back from shingles

Oh, Ella, I'm so sorry. You must have had a much worse case than I.
Did you get vaccinated for shingles? My doctor suggested that I get the vaccine because it is possible, although very rare, to get shingles again. The pain was excruciating. I remember pacing the house and texting friends in other time zones to help keep my mind off it. I had some very sweet friends who kept me company, one in particular. I don't talk with her very often, and sometimes I miss her.

 

[Saricharity]

As a college student, I had professors that would not allow test rescheduling no matter how sick you were. I once had to be dragged into the lecture hall by my fiancé to take a test because I was so sick and hadn't gotten any sleep thanks to bouts of throwing up (rotavirus, holy crap, it felt like my stomach and intestines were trying to leave my body like a xenomorph). It was either go take the test on the given date, or accept a 0 on 25% of the points for the whole class. I've seen peers come in with mono and the flu multiple times, and even the students that do take a day off only take 1 because they can't afford to miss any more, meaning that they are still coming in very infectious.

This is an excellent observation.
This is true in the workforce as well.
Perhaps, we should look at ways to make changes so that people can feel like they can take time off when they are sick, no matter what ailment they have.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I think you answered your own question.

Hahahahahahaha, nothing can be demonstrated to be 100% safe. Ever. Heck, I could even present a decent amount of evidence supporting that oxygen you breathe in contributes to mutations in your cells that can build up and result in cancer and cellular death. But evidence heavily supports the conclusion that actually contracting influenza and other diseases is far more dangerous than receiving a vaccine, to the point that it is laughable to consider the latter worth avoiding. Cars are far more dangerous than vaccines, even to people that choose not to drive, yet we allow people to drive cars regardless. Here, I even have the number of pedestrians that were killed by vehicles in the US in 2015: 5,376 Pedestrian Safety | Motor Vehicle Safety | CDC Injury Center

In comparison, while I can't seem to find a number attributed for "death by vaccine" at all, I will compare this to the reported number of severe symptoms from the Chicken pox vaccine over the course of 3 years and 9.7 million injections (no exact number for the proportion of this concluded to be the wild type virus or other factors independent of the vaccine): about 262 (6,580 symptoms reported with 4% of them being severe)
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/i...ster_Vaccine_rates_information_sheet.pdf?ua=1

That's not even deaths, that's just the number of severe symptoms people reported experiencing after getting the vaccine that they attributed to the vaccine themselves rather than the professional conclusion. That's about a 0.00027% chance of getting a severe complication from that vaccine. In contrast, before the vaccine was used in the US, in the early 1990s, about 4 million people per year would get chicken pox, and of those people, a minimum estimate of 8,000 had to be hospitalized and around 100 people would die from it every year Chickenpox | Monitoring Vaccine Impact | Varicella | CDC. That makes for at least a 0.2% chance of severe enough complications to put you in the hospital (note that not all symptoms reported to be "severe" from the vaccine were necessarily ones that demanded hospitalization), and at least a 0.0025% chance of death. What is your logical argument that freedom of choice means people should be allowed to freely choose a 0.2% chance of a severe complication great enough to be hospitalized over a 0.00027% chance of a severe complication (assuming that none of the people that reported were mistaken about the cause of the severe symptom being the vaccine)?

But again, if choosing not to vaccinate only affected oneself, then I would have no issue with people voluntarily making an illogical choice. But it doesn't, so I am not okay with people arguing that their freedom to ignorantly make a bad choice exceeds the health and safety of the people around them.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I think you answered your own question.

Lol, you have a less than 0.1% chance of getting a complication from a vaccine severe enough to actually warrant concern, and you'd greatly reduce that chance by being sure not to get vaccines with the same potential side effects at the same time, but many diseases one is vaccinated against have a higher percentage of killing those infected than that. One choice is so obviously less dangerous to make that to argue that just having a chance of danger means that something should never be required would demand that the government couldn't enforce anything.

 

[Go Braves]

Not to open a whole other can of worms but I do not think God would be super pleased with mankind using legally aborted human fetuses. I highly doubt God would see it as a slap in His face if people choose not to vaccinate since Abortion is killing a life that God began.
Some childhood vaccines, including the one against rubella, are cultured in 'WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts'. Other common vaccines, including those for chicken pox, hepatitis and rabies, are also propagated in cells originating from legally aborted human fetuses, according to the FDA.

Well Saricharity, I don't think God would be pleased by folks twisting things around like what you've done here. I see that as dishonesty, I reckon God does too seeing how He clearly disapproves of half-truths.

I can tell you for fact that the nursery & the preschool at some Baptist churches require proof of immunization, on account of my girlfriend having to show hers to teach Sunday school. Both at the church where we met in Georgia & the church she goes to now near Ole Miss. My mom stays in the nursery during services, taking care of the littles. She had to show hers too. We're definitely pro-life. The whole "my body, my choice" thing anti-vaxxers have written on here just makes my head shake hard.
Parents don't have to show proof just to drop their littles off at the nursery but they do to enroll in the preschool. Georgia & Mississippi don't let folks get personal belief exemptions. I think GA lets you get religious exemptions but no way is our Baptist preschool going to accept that from Baptist parents. Parents can take their kids on over to the Christian Scientists if they please.

Are you saying if your child got bit by a dog with rabies you wouldn't get her a rabies shot lickety split?

Paul Offit is quoted as saying, "to remove human fibroblast cells entirely from vaccines is out of the question.

Could you give the context for that please?

 

[Go Braves]

I attended high school and my parents filed an exemption with the local health unit.

Well, I'm glad that the school made them do that at the very least. Your posts had me worried schools up there were so dang lackadaisical about this that parents could just check a box or something. Put no effort into it. Why did your folks ask for an exemption for you? Did they have to provide any statements or anything like that?

I believe the personal exemptions have been allowed since 1984 in Canada. It was an amendment to the act as a result of a committee of parents fighting against the mandatory immunization Legislation that passed in 1982.
You can read more about it here:
History - Vaccine Choice Canada

Well I'm glad that most parents up there are responsible enough for their kids & their communities they don't ask for exemptions.

Obviously there's still rules about it in Canada, seeing how 5000 kids were recently suspended in Ontario on account of not having their immunization records up to date. From what I've gathered, most of the parents didn't object to vaccines, they'd just been dragging their heels at getting the paperwork in on time & the process for submitting that paperwork isn't as streamlined as it ought to be.

This is from last week
Almost 400 students suspended over incomplete immunization records

This is from last month
Over 5,000 elementary school kids suspended in Toronto for out-of-date immunization records

This is from last fall
659 students suspended for incomplete immunization records in Windsor, Ont.

Like I said at top, Georgia doesn't allow folks to get exemptions based on their beliefs, & really just take the religious requests from Christian Scientists. Mississippi where my girl lives now hasn't allowed for any exemptions except on account of medical things for a long while.

 

[Go Braves]

Thanks.

A lot of parallelism. And both suffer from the rule of unintended consequence. Both save a LOT of lives every year, but both can also be killers.

The Mandatory seat belt use law went into effect in Michigan in the late 1980s. Before that, usually I wore it; but not always. The morning of August 17 1984, 6.45 am. A morning I did NOT wear my seat belt and that fact is what allows me to sit here at my desk this morning typing this post.

I got "T-boned" on my way to work (only a block from there). My 1970 Cutlass Supreme (2 door) had retro-fitted seat belts bolted thru the floor to the undercarriage frame. That was the common practice in those days. So they were separate from the seats. When hit, the driver door was smashed to about the centerline of the steering column, and the seat was moved sideways an equal amount. But the frame remained intact. Had I been wearing the belt, it would have cut me in half.

After surgery, a local police officer asked me a bunch of questions about the accident; most of which I was too groggy to answer. One of them was whether I wore a seat belt or not. I told him I did not remember, so he replied: "You lived. I will put down that you were wearing it." It was only afterward when I actually saw the specifics of the damage I realized I could NOT have been wearing it.

But the problem with anecdotes like that is they are taken as the norm rather than an exceptional situation and circumstance. Seat belts save many more lives than they take, and vaccines are the same. Yes, some have bad reactions to some part of their content; but those cases are a very small minority.

We got T-boned a few years back, on account of my mom skidding through a stop sign. A truck hit us. PTL the truck driver had been driving extremely slow on account of the weather & taking as many precautions as he could, so it wasn't near as bad as it could have been. This was during a real big winter storm in the South, 2014. Folks up North are prepared for driving in the snow & ice. Folks down here aren't for the most part on account of how it's so rare to have that big of a storm. I got a shoulder injury on account of the seat belt. It'd have been much worse had I not been wearing it.

I hadn't thought of the 2 being parallel till y'all started talking about it but I now see how it is, for sure.

 

[Go Braves]

Rare, but it still happens.
In fact, 3.1 billion dollars has been paid out by the U.S. Government for vaccine injury.
Sadly, Canada does not have such compensation available. (except in Quebec)

Have you ever compared how much has been paid out on account of seat belt malfunctions causing injury to folks in the US during that time? Dollars to donuts what's paid out for vaccine injury is crumbs in comparison to that. I'm glad Canada doesn't have something comparable. Thanks for letting us know that.

Do you wear a seat belt when you get into a car? If you don't, when you get pulled over for a violation on account of that, are the officers willing to accept you saying that you weren't wearing one on account of how it could have caused you injury?

 

[Ronald]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but new research confirms that aluminum adjuvant in vaccines cause autism.
Let me remind everyone that in the 60's autism occurred in one in 2500 babies. That is .04%. Now it has grown to one in 160 babies. In the U.K. it's up to 1.1% of the population. I think a class action law suit will bring fix wagons. I have much against the medical industry, the Big Pharma and FDA, they are all in collusion - but that's just me.

--------------------------------------------------------
The 2011 Dr. Mitkus' (who works for the FDA) sole study on aluminum in vaccines dispelled the dangers and fears of it's relationship to autism. I took the liberty of highlighting material from the article, however, I do recommend you reading it all and sharing it with your loved ones so that they don't believe (like PsychoSara) that vaccines are not harmful.

"Since then, scientists around the world are proving him wrong.

Recent science, completed all over the world, is pointing the finger at aluminum adjuvant injected into newborns as the probable cause of autism. Here’s a simple graphic to explain what has been learned:

· From Canada, 2012: “Aluminum (Al) is highly neurotoxic and has been shown to impair both prenatal and postnatal brain development in humans and experimental animals.”

· From France, 2013: “However, continuously escalating doses of this poorly biodegradable adjuvant in the population may become insidiously unsafe, especially in the case of overimmunization or immature/altered blood brain barrier…”

· From France, 2015: “Thus alum and other poorly biodegradable materials taken up at the periphery by phagocytes circulate in the lymphatic and blood circulation and can enter the brain using a Trojan horse mechanism similar to that used by infectious particles. Previous experiments have shown that alum administration can cause CNS dysfunction and damage, casting doubts on the exact level of alum safety.”

· From France, 2016: “We conclude that Alhydrogel [aluminum adjuvant] injected at low dose in mouse muscle may selectively induce long-term Al cerebral accumulation and neurotoxic effects.”

· From England, 2017: “The amount of aluminum in the brain tissue was, I would say, extraordinarily high. Very high. My group has measured the aluminum content of probably more than one hundred human brains, and these brain tissues taken from the individuals with a diagnosis of autism were some of the highest we’ve measured bar none. The only ones we’ve seen that are similar were a recent study of familial Alzheimer’s. This in itself is a very important finding.”

Aluminum adjuvant, when injected, can
1) impair brain development,
2) remain in the brain much longer than thought,
3) is brought into the brain by macrophages that grab the aluminum from the vaccine injection site and recirculate it,
4) may actually be worse when injected in small doses repeatedly (like it’s done during vaccination), and
5) there’s remarkably high levels of aluminum in the brains of people diagnosed with autism


Dr. Chris Exley, Keele University who is arguably the world’s leading expert on aluminum neurotoxicology said,

“I did not see a role for aluminum in autism. And I didn’t see a role for aluminum in vaccines in autism. I have to change my mind now on both of these. I have to change my mind that aluminum has a role in autism, I believe it now does. Now, because I have seen the same cells that we will see at an injection site carrying a cargo of aluminum into the brain tissue of individuals who died with autism I would now say that we have to think very carefully about who receives a vaccine that includes an aluminum adjuvant. We need to think carefully, is this vaccine a life-saving vaccine or not? If it isn’t, don’t have it with an aluminum adjuvant.”
He ended the quote by saying He would shy away from any vaccines containing aluminum. He now also believes “aluminum has a role in autism.”

"In 2016, Neil Miller published a study in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons called “Aluminum in childhood vaccines is unsafe” where he too disassembled Dr. Mitkus’ study, stating it had “major flaws”...


"The “Big 6” of aluminum science have stepped forward, changing everything
At great potential cost to their careers, it appears that six scientists — none American — have stepped forward to sound the alarm loudly about the extreme danger of aluminum, and perhaps initiate a reckoning of the true cause of the autism epidemic once and for all. Dr. Chris Exley of Keele University; Drs. Romain Gherardi and Guillemette Crepea of Université Paris Est Créteil; Drs. Christopher Shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic of the University of British Columbia; and Dr. Yehuda Shoenfeld of Tel Aviv University have all contributed to the understanding we now have of aluminum, and the way it appears uniquely able to trigger immune activation events in the brains of certain children, leading to autism..."


All information from this site:

https://worldmercuryproject.org/news/a-lone-fda-scientist-could-end-the-autism-epidemic/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgLffsqiS2gIVhuDICh0DqAqjEAAYASAAEgK3mPD_BwE

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[Go Braves]

This is true. My friend had shingles at around the same time as me and she was 16 too. She too thought only seniors developed shingles. Both our mothers and families were puzzled by the diagnosis. However, I question how rare it is because I know other children and teenagers who have had shingles too. Some were vaccinated for chickenpox and some were not.
I didn't know I had shingles until the rash appeared and went to the doctor. My rash was never open blisters so I was told it was not contagious to any of my siblings.

Several pages back a lady from Canada had said y'all didn't have the vaccine for chicken pox as early as we did. That surprised me, on account of how I'd thought your public health care was better than ours. If that's true, then that explains why you'd know more kids & teens who had shingles, on account of them not getting the chicken pox vaccine & getting chicken pox, which then caused the shingles. I thought it was interesting what @Stanfordella said about how a vitamin D deficiency can make somebody young more prone to getting shingles. There's probably more folks up there with vitamin D deficiencies than down South where we get a whole lot more nice weather to go out and get the vitamin from the sun.

Now the vaccine technically can cause shingles but like Sarah here already said worrying about that is akin to worrying about a dog without any teeth who is missing its lower jaw biting you. I'm sorry you had shingles. That would be rough.

 

[Go Braves]

This is an excellent observation.
This is true in the workforce as well.
Perhaps, we should look at ways to make changes so that people can feel like they can take time off when they are sick, no matter what ailment they have.

That's what everybody would like, for sure, but it's not feasible for it to happen. Especially for folks with minimum income kind of jobs. On account of too many folks fibbing, say they're too sick to come in to work, or go to class, there's less tolerance of it. More places demand a note from the Dr. but going to the Dr. cost money so even folks who are legit sick won't go, unless they're so sick they're worried they're knocking on heaven's door.

Maybe up in Canada y'all have better policies about that sort of thing.

You can't protect yourself from everything but you should do all that you can to protect yourself, protect everybody else, from what you can.

 

[Go Braves]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but new research confirms that aluminum adjuvant in vaccines cause autism.
Let me remind everyone that in the 60's autism occurred in one in 2500 babies. That is .04%. Now it has grown to one in 160 babies. In the U.K. it's up to 1.1% of the population. I think a class action law suit will bring fix wagons. I have much against the medical industry, the Big Pharma and FDA, they are all in collusion - but that's just me.

I don't think you've burst anybody's bubbles. Especially not Sarah's on account of how she's gotten her facts on this right.

All your links go to a sneaky anti-vaxxer site pretending as if it's some official impartial site. Like it's been talked about here already, this is another attempt to try to prove an argument from taking something from a study out of context. Willing to bet that if you read through all those papers for yourself, you'd see that it doesn't support what that site is saying it does.

Is this the study you're talking about where a scientist proved that the extremely tiny amount of aluminum in vaccines posed virtually no risk?
Updated aluminum pharmacokinetics following infant exposures through diet and vaccination. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Ronald]

I don't think you've burst anybody's bubbles. Especially not Sarah's on account of how she's gotten her facts on this right.

All your links go to a sneaky anti-vaxxer site pretending as if it's some official impartial site. Like it's been talked about here already, this is another attempt to try to prove an argument from taking something from a study out of context. Willing to bet that if you read through all those papers for yourself, you'd see that it doesn't support what that site is saying it does.

Is this the study you're talking about where a scientist proved that the extremely tiny amount of aluminum in vaccines posed virtually no risk?
Updated aluminum pharmacokinetics following infant exposures through diet and vaccination. - PubMed - NCBI

These are legitimate studies from foreign countries that refute the research which the FDA passed to defuse all the fears and worries. It was flawed research by Dr. Mitkus, ordered by the FDA.
Corruption, irresponsibility, denial and money is behind all of it. This is a travesty of the highest order. Giving kids vaccines to protect them from minor non life threatening diseases and subjecting almost 1 % of them to autism and other problems. Aluminum is also linked to Alzheimer's as well. Thats our fault, we drink and eat from aluminum cans that leach into our foods and we also cook with aluminum as well. Scientists in the states would probably be threatened if they went up against the FDA or the BIG PHARMA companies.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are cures for many diseases that are suppressed, so that their drugs and procedures can make hundreds of billions of dollars. The government is actually in collution with them. Laws are passed to protect them and squash any natural cures available. You cannot say Vitamin C cures an illness, because the law claims that only drugs can.They exist their own swamp, the medical industry pushes their drugs ( the pond scum from the swamp), which can harm you more than heal you.
Make the vaccines without toxic metals - for Pete's sake and for our health.
As far as Sarah goes, do you really want to trust a psycho?

 

[Zoii]

Not to open a whole other can of worms but I do not think God would be super pleased with mankind using legally aborted human fetuses. I highly doubt God would see it as a slap in His face if people choose not to vaccinate since Abortion is killing a life that God began.
Some childhood vaccines, including the one against rubella, are cultured in 'WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts'. Other common vaccines, including those for chicken pox, hepatitis and rabies, are also propagated in cells originating from legally aborted human fetuses, according to the FDA.
Paul Offit is quoted as saying, "to remove human fibroblast cells entirely from vaccines is out of the question."

The problem I have when you make argumemts here is that you express yourself so as to emphasize a portion of fact and leave out the rest that dilutes your argument. Its not scientific to talk in that way. Be open, disclose benefits and risks objectively. Simply say it as it is - to do otherwise is simply dishonest.

To answer your point. Some vaccines use cell lines originally derived from two aborted foetuses back in 1964 and 1970. Vaccines do not draw from foetuses today, but rather those cells derived from that time.

Now can you see the difference between what you state and the truth?
Now that doesnt totally remove the ethical principle your arguing, but I find it most dishonest of you to lead readers to think they are preparing vaccines from aborted foetuses.

A really good ethical review of this issue can be found coming from the ethics commission of the vatican Vatican Statement on Vaccines Derived From Aborted Human Fetuses

But I shall simply lay down the actual facts whether positive or negative..... and I wish when you discuss things that you'd do the same.

Vaccines currently produced using human cell lines that come from aborted foetuses

To date, there are two human diploid cell lines which were originally prepared from tissues of aborted foetuses (in 1964 and 1970) and are used for the preparation of vaccines based on live attenuated virus: the first one is the WI-38 line (Winstar Institute 38), with human diploid lung fibroblasts, coming from a female foetus that was aborted because the family felt they had too many children (G. Sven et al., 1969). It was prepared and developed by Leonard Hayflick in 1964 (L. Hayflick, 1965; G. Sven et al., 1969)3 and bears the ATCC number CCL-75. WI-38 has been used for the preparation of the historical vaccine RA 27/3 against rubella (S.A. Plotkin et al, 1965)4. The second human cell line is MRC-5 (Medical Research Council 5) (human, lung, embryonic) (ATCC number CCL-171), with human lung fibroblasts coming from a 14 week male foetus aborted for "psychiatric reasons" from a 27 year old woman in the UK. MRC-5 was prepared and developed by J.P. Jacobs in 1966 (J.P. Jacobs et al, 1970)5. Other human cell lines have been developed for pharmaceutical needs, but are not involved in the vaccines actually available.

The vaccines that are incriminated today as using human cell lines from aborted foetuses, WI-38 and MRC-5, are the following:

A) Live vaccines against rubella:

• the monovalent vaccines against rubella Meruvax®!! (Merck) (U.S.), Rudivax® (Sanofi Pasteur, Fr.), and Ervevax® (RA 27/3) (GlaxoSmithKline, Belgium);
• the combined vaccine MR against rubella and measles, commercialized with the name of M-R-VAX® (Merck, US) and Rudi-Rouvax® (AVP, France);
• the combined vaccine against rubella and mumps marketed under the name of Biavax®!! (Merck, U.S.),
• the combined vaccine MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) against rubella, mumps and measles, marketed under the name of M-M-R® II (Merck, US), R.O.R.®, Trimovax® (Sanofi Pasteur, Fr.), and Priorix® (GlaxoSmithKline UK).

B) Other vaccines, also prepared using human cell lines from aborted foetuses:

• two vaccines against hepatitis A, one produced by Merck (VAQTA), the other one produced by GlaxoSmithKline (HAVRIX), both of them being prepared using MRC-5;
• one vaccine against chicken pox, Varivax®, produced by Merck using WI-38 and MRC-5;
• one vaccine against poliomyelitis, the inactivated polio virus vaccine Poliovax® (Aventis-Pasteur, Fr.) using MRC-5;
• one vaccine against rabies, Imovax®, produced by Aventis Pasteur, harvested from infected human diploid cells, MRC-5 strain;
• one vaccine against smallpox, AC AM 1000, prepared by Acambis using MRC-5, still on trial.

 

[Zoii]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but new research confirms that aluminum adjuvant in vaccines cause autism.
Let me remind everyone that in the 60's autism occurred in one in 2500 babies. That is .04%. Now it has grown to one in 160 babies. In the U.K. it's up to 1.1% of the population. I think a class action law suit will bring fix wagons. I have much against the medical industry, the Big Pharma and FDA, they are all in collusion - but that's just me.

--------------------------------------------------------
The 2011 Dr. Mitkus' (who works for the FDA) sole study on aluminum in vaccines dispelled the dangers and fears of it's relationship to autism. I took the liberty of highlighting material from the article, however, I do recommend you reading it all and sharing it with your loved ones so that they don't believe (like PsychoSara) that vaccines are not harmful.

"Since then, scientists around the world are proving him wrong.

Recent science, completed all over the world, is pointing the finger at aluminum adjuvant injected into newborns as the probable cause of autism. Here’s a simple graphic to explain what has been learned:

· From Canada, 2012: “Aluminum (Al) is highly neurotoxic and has been shown to impair both prenatal and postnatal brain development in humans and experimental animals.”

· From France, 2013: “However, continuously escalating doses of this poorly biodegradable adjuvant in the population may become insidiously unsafe, especially in the case of overimmunization or immature/altered blood brain barrier…”

· From France, 2015: “Thus alum and other poorly biodegradable materials taken up at the periphery by phagocytes circulate in the lymphatic and blood circulation and can enter the brain using a Trojan horse mechanism similar to that used by infectious particles. Previous experiments have shown that alum administration can cause CNS dysfunction and damage, casting doubts on the exact level of alum safety.”

· From France, 2016: “We conclude that Alhydrogel [aluminum adjuvant] injected at low dose in mouse muscle may selectively induce long-term Al cerebral accumulation and neurotoxic effects.”

· From England, 2017: “The amount of aluminum in the brain tissue was, I would say, extraordinarily high. Very high. My group has measured the aluminum content of probably more than one hundred human brains, and these brain tissues taken from the individuals with a diagnosis of autism were some of the highest we’ve measured bar none. The only ones we’ve seen that are similar were a recent study of familial Alzheimer’s. This in itself is a very important finding.”

Aluminum adjuvant, when injected, can
1) impair brain development,
2) remain in the brain much longer than thought,
3) is brought into the brain by macrophages that grab the aluminum from the vaccine injection site and recirculate it,
4) may actually be worse when injected in small doses repeatedly (like it’s done during vaccination), and
5) there’s remarkably high levels of aluminum in the brains of people diagnosed with autism


Dr. Chris Exley, Keele University who is arguably the world’s leading expert on aluminum neurotoxicology said,

“I did not see a role for aluminum in autism. And I didn’t see a role for aluminum in vaccines in autism. I have to change my mind now on both of these. I have to change my mind that aluminum has a role in autism, I believe it now does. Now, because I have seen the same cells that we will see at an injection site carrying a cargo of aluminum into the brain tissue of individuals who died with autism I would now say that we have to think very carefully about who receives a vaccine that includes an aluminum adjuvant. We need to think carefully, is this vaccine a life-saving vaccine or not? If it isn’t, don’t have it with an aluminum adjuvant.”
He ended the quote by saying He would shy away from any vaccines containing aluminum. He now also believes “aluminum has a role in autism.”

"In 2016, Neil Miller published a study in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons called “Aluminum in childhood vaccines is unsafe” where he too disassembled Dr. Mitkus’ study, stating it had “major flaws”...


"The “Big 6” of aluminum science have stepped forward, changing everything
At great potential cost to their careers, it appears that six scientists — none American — have stepped forward to sound the alarm loudly about the extreme danger of aluminum, and perhaps initiate a reckoning of the true cause of the autism epidemic once and for all. Dr. Chris Exley of Keele University; Drs. Romain Gherardi and Guillemette Crepea of Université Paris Est Créteil; Drs. Christopher Shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic of the University of British Columbia; and Dr. Yehuda Shoenfeld of Tel Aviv University have all contributed to the understanding we now have of aluminum, and the way it appears uniquely able to trigger immune activation events in the brains of certain children, leading to autism..."


All information from this site:

https://worldmercuryproject.org/news/a-lone-fda-scientist-could-end-the-autism-epidemic/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgLffsqiS2gIVhuDICh0DqAqjEAAYASAAEgK3mPD_BwE

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Youre one of the few Anti Vaxers that provide references for your views. Youve taken the time to write a lot so the least i can do is to read each of your sources and consider the objective evidence within my knowledge/skill-set. I'll respond when I have the time to do that. I announce my position to be very pro-vax, but I compliment you on the way you write.

EDIT post reading the posters material. I retract that the poster writes scientifically, on the contrary I have found a serious lack of objectivity

 

[Zoii]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but new research confirms that aluminum adjuvant in vaccines cause autism.
Let me remind everyone that in the 60's autism occurred in one in 2500 babies. That is .04%. Now it has grown to one in 160 babies. In the U.K. it's up to 1.1% of the population. I think a class action law suit will bring fix wagons. I have much against the medical industry, the Big Pharma and FDA, they are all in collusion - but that's just me.

--------------------------------------------------------
The 2011 Dr. Mitkus' (who works for the FDA) sole study on aluminum in vaccines dispelled the dangers and fears of it's relationship to autism. I took the liberty of highlighting material from the article, however, I do recommend you reading it all and sharing it with your loved ones so that they don't believe (like PsychoSara) that vaccines are not harmful.

"Since then, scientists around the world are proving him wrong.

Recent science, completed all over the world, is pointing the finger at aluminum adjuvant injected into newborns as the probable cause of autism. Here’s a simple graphic to explain what has been learned:

· From Canada, 2012: “Aluminum (Al) is highly neurotoxic and has been shown to impair both prenatal and postnatal brain development in humans and experimental animals.”

· From France, 2013: “However, continuously escalating doses of this poorly biodegradable adjuvant in the population may become insidiously unsafe, especially in the case of overimmunization or immature/altered blood brain barrier…”

· From France, 2015: “Thus alum and other poorly biodegradable materials taken up at the periphery by phagocytes circulate in the lymphatic and blood circulation and can enter the brain using a Trojan horse mechanism similar to that used by infectious particles. Previous experiments have shown that alum administration can cause CNS dysfunction and damage, casting doubts on the exact level of alum safety.”

· From France, 2016: “We conclude that Alhydrogel [aluminum adjuvant] injected at low dose in mouse muscle may selectively induce long-term Al cerebral accumulation and neurotoxic effects.”

· From England, 2017: “The amount of aluminum in the brain tissue was, I would say, extraordinarily high. Very high. My group has measured the aluminum content of probably more than one hundred human brains, and these brain tissues taken from the individuals with a diagnosis of autism were some of the highest we’ve measured bar none. The only ones we’ve seen that are similar were a recent study of familial Alzheimer’s. This in itself is a very important finding.”

Aluminum adjuvant, when injected, can
1) impair brain development,
2) remain in the brain much longer than thought,
3) is brought into the brain by macrophages that grab the aluminum from the vaccine injection site and recirculate it,
4) may actually be worse when injected in small doses repeatedly (like it’s done during vaccination), and
5) there’s remarkably high levels of aluminum in the brains of people diagnosed with autism


Dr. Chris Exley, Keele University who is arguably the world’s leading expert on aluminum neurotoxicology said,

“I did not see a role for aluminum in autism. And I didn’t see a role for aluminum in vaccines in autism. I have to change my mind now on both of these. I have to change my mind that aluminum has a role in autism, I believe it now does. Now, because I have seen the same cells that we will see at an injection site carrying a cargo of aluminum into the brain tissue of individuals who died with autism I would now say that we have to think very carefully about who receives a vaccine that includes an aluminum adjuvant. We need to think carefully, is this vaccine a life-saving vaccine or not? If it isn’t, don’t have it with an aluminum adjuvant.”
He ended the quote by saying He would shy away from any vaccines containing aluminum. He now also believes “aluminum has a role in autism.”

"In 2016, Neil Miller published a study in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons called “Aluminum in childhood vaccines is unsafe” where he too disassembled Dr. Mitkus’ study, stating it had “major flaws”...


"The “Big 6” of aluminum science have stepped forward, changing everything
At great potential cost to their careers, it appears that six scientists — none American — have stepped forward to sound the alarm loudly about the extreme danger of aluminum, and perhaps initiate a reckoning of the true cause of the autism epidemic once and for all. Dr. Chris Exley of Keele University; Drs. Romain Gherardi and Guillemette Crepea of Université Paris Est Créteil; Drs. Christopher Shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic of the University of British Columbia; and Dr. Yehuda Shoenfeld of Tel Aviv University have all contributed to the understanding we now have of aluminum, and the way it appears uniquely able to trigger immune activation events in the brains of certain children, leading to autism..."


All information from this site:

https://worldmercuryproject.org/news/a-lone-fda-scientist-could-end-the-autism-epidemic/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgLffsqiS2gIVhuDICh0DqAqjEAAYASAAEgK3mPD_BwE

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Well I regret my first appraisal of your capacity to write objectively and with credibility. You write with an apparent well constructed technique, so at first glance it appeared you have something credible to read and that I should invest my time to it in order to remain objective and reasoned.

I have now read all your sources.

To the reader - this is an example of an appauling lack of scientific regard to this topic. Remember to believe or disbelieve a particular point, you shouldnt base your view on anyone's opinion or point of view. The only credible evidence is objective research. The research should be ideally of a large population, longitudinal (meaning conducted over a long period), and be double-blinded.

Allow me to take you through each article he cites as supposelldy scientifically researched evidence:

The first link titled Canada 2012 - This isnt even research its a commentary piece/ discussion paper.

The link Titled France 2013 - A research of a small population of mice. A proportion of the mice population showed cerebral penetration and retention of Aluminium. - You cannot correlate this finding to humans... nor can you conclude that cerebral intracelluar penetration of Aluminum in mice correlates to human Autism. Thats not to say this research isnt worth replicating and continuing to investigate correlates to humans...it is. But its a disgraceful leap to suggest detection of Al in mice = Autism in humans.

The 3rd link - grrrr frustrating - this again is just a discussion paper not research

The 4th link was embarrasingly not even published . he has linked to somebodies unpublished paper that hasnt even been peer reviewed (or published in a journal) that looked at 5 cases of Autism and purported to find high concentrations of aluminium..... the method was full of measurement errors and variances, there were no controls and the reported levels were within normal brain cell limits so - I hope for thier sake they dont get it published because its an atrocious piece of work.

So what does this all mean - it means the longitudinal studies need to continue and what work that has been done needs to be expanded. CDC do monitor longitudinal trends. Thus far noone has demonstrated a link between the Aluminium in vaccines and Autism. Its disappointing that the interest I had in the post I am responding to turned out to be hyperinflated and unsubstantiated.

Now to this statement:
"I have much against the medical industry, the Big Pharma and FDA, they are all in collusion - but that's just me"

This declares a lack of objectivity - Its declaring your belief in a conspiracy theory which for some reason I didnt pick up on ealier. To suggest that such great advances as the availability of insulin, antibiotics, and anti-arrhythmics is a pharmaco-medico conspiracy shoots down your credibility completely. Please say this to a diabetic that their condition and insulin treatment is a conspiracy - and let me know how you fare wth your argument. I need to let you know I am now retracting my compliment I paid you in a previous post.

The poor science base behind your arguments along with your conspiracy theories suggests that you should be disregarded by anyone with common sense.

 

[Go Braves]

These are legitimate studies from foreign countries that refute the research which the FDA passed to defuse all the fears and worries. It was flawed research by Dr. Mitkus, ordered by the FDA.
Corruption, irresponsibility, denial and money is behind all of it. This is a travesty of the highest order. Giving kids vaccines to protect them from minor non life threatening diseases and subjecting almost 1 % of them to autism and other problems. Aluminum is also linked to Alzheimer's as well. Thats our fault, we drink and eat from aluminum cans that leach into our foods and we also cook with aluminum as well. Scientists in the states would probably be threatened if they went up against the FDA or the BIG PHARMA companies.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are cures for many diseases that are suppressed, so that their drugs and procedures can make hundreds of billions of dollars. The government is actually in collution with them. Laws are passed to protect them and squash any natural cures available. You cannot say Vitamin C cures an illness, because the law claims that only drugs can.They exist their own swamp, the medical industry pushes their drugs ( the pond scum from the swamp), which can harm you more than heal you.
Make the vaccines without toxic metals - for Pete's sake and for our health.
As far as Sarah goes, do you really want to trust a psycho?

Well Ronald, Sarah isn't the one who's been writing posts that belong in the Conspiracy Theory section. Her posts have been factual & informative, not mis-informative. She hasn't just copied & pasted things from someplace else, either. She's done the work herself which I & other folks are sure to appreciate.

Zoii did a great job responding to the rest of what you wrote, so I'm leaving it at that.

 

[Neal82]

The thread got off to a terrific start, then stumbled on the second post. If the anti-vaxxer myth that sanitation and not vaccination eradicated disease was posted so early into the discussion I have to wonder how many of the other myths are on these pages. I suspect we could start a game of anti-vaxxer myths BINGO.

 

[Kentonio]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but new research confirms that aluminum adjuvant in vaccines cause autism.
Let me remind everyone that in the 60's autism occurred in one in 2500 babies. That is .04%. Now it has grown to one in 160 babies. In the U.K. it's up to 1.1% of the population. I think a class action law suit will bring fix wagons. I have much against the medical industry, the Big Pharma and FDA, they are all in collusion - but that's just me.

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The 2011 Dr. Mitkus' (who works for the FDA) sole study on aluminum in vaccines dispelled the dangers and fears of it's relationship to autism. I took the liberty of highlighting material from the article, however, I do recommend you reading it all and sharing it with your loved ones so that they don't believe (like PsychoSara) that vaccines are not harmful.

"Since then, scientists around the world are proving him wrong.

Recent science, completed all over the world, is pointing the finger at aluminum adjuvant injected into newborns as the probable cause of autism. Here’s a simple graphic to explain what has been learned:

· From Canada, 2012: “Aluminum (Al) is highly neurotoxic and has been shown to impair both prenatal and postnatal brain development in humans and experimental animals.”

· From France, 2013: “However, continuously escalating doses of this poorly biodegradable adjuvant in the population may become insidiously unsafe, especially in the case of overimmunization or immature/altered blood brain barrier…”

· From France, 2015: “Thus alum and other poorly biodegradable materials taken up at the periphery by phagocytes circulate in the lymphatic and blood circulation and can enter the brain using a Trojan horse mechanism similar to that used by infectious particles. Previous experiments have shown that alum administration can cause CNS dysfunction and damage, casting doubts on the exact level of alum safety.”

· From France, 2016: “We conclude that Alhydrogel [aluminum adjuvant] injected at low dose in mouse muscle may selectively induce long-term Al cerebral accumulation and neurotoxic effects.”

· From England, 2017: “The amount of aluminum in the brain tissue was, I would say, extraordinarily high. Very high. My group has measured the aluminum content of probably more than one hundred human brains, and these brain tissues taken from the individuals with a diagnosis of autism were some of the highest we’ve measured bar none. The only ones we’ve seen that are similar were a recent study of familial Alzheimer’s. This in itself is a very important finding.”

Aluminum adjuvant, when injected, can
1) impair brain development,
2) remain in the brain much longer than thought,
3) is brought into the brain by macrophages that grab the aluminum from the vaccine injection site and recirculate it,
4) may actually be worse when injected in small doses repeatedly (like it’s done during vaccination), and
5) there’s remarkably high levels of aluminum in the brains of people diagnosed with autism


Dr. Chris Exley, Keele University who is arguably the world’s leading expert on aluminum neurotoxicology said,

“I did not see a role for aluminum in autism. And I didn’t see a role for aluminum in vaccines in autism. I have to change my mind now on both of these. I have to change my mind that aluminum has a role in autism, I believe it now does. Now, because I have seen the same cells that we will see at an injection site carrying a cargo of aluminum into the brain tissue of individuals who died with autism I would now say that we have to think very carefully about who receives a vaccine that includes an aluminum adjuvant. We need to think carefully, is this vaccine a life-saving vaccine or not? If it isn’t, don’t have it with an aluminum adjuvant.”
He ended the quote by saying He would shy away from any vaccines containing aluminum. He now also believes “aluminum has a role in autism.”

"In 2016, Neil Miller published a study in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons called “Aluminum in childhood vaccines is unsafe” where he too disassembled Dr. Mitkus’ study, stating it had “major flaws”...


"The “Big 6” of aluminum science have stepped forward, changing everything
At great potential cost to their careers, it appears that six scientists — none American — have stepped forward to sound the alarm loudly about the extreme danger of aluminum, and perhaps initiate a reckoning of the true cause of the autism epidemic once and for all. Dr. Chris Exley of Keele University; Drs. Romain Gherardi and Guillemette Crepea of Université Paris Est Créteil; Drs. Christopher Shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic of the University of British Columbia; and Dr. Yehuda Shoenfeld of Tel Aviv University have all contributed to the understanding we now have of aluminum, and the way it appears uniquely able to trigger immune activation events in the brains of certain children, leading to autism..."


All information from this site:

https://worldmercuryproject.org/news/a-lone-fda-scientist-could-end-the-autism-epidemic/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgLffsqiS2gIVhuDICh0DqAqjEAAYASAAEgK3mPD_BwE

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

“The claim, by Chris Exley, a professor of bioinorganic chemistry at Keele University, has been criticised by fellow scientists, who described his research as flawed, said it is “absurd” to draw conclusions from it, and raised concerns over a possible conflict of interest, all of which he denies.

Exley has claimed in the past that aluminium causes Alzheimer’s disease and is linked to breast cancer. His department has received money from a company that sells silicon-rich mineral water, which he thinks “everyone should drink every day to remove toxic aluminium from their bodies and brains”.“

These Scientists Say A British Professor's Claim That Aluminium Is Linked To Autism Is "Absurd"