WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

[Shrewd Manager]

We need to take on Paul's personal perspective of being the chief among sinners. And that of the tax collector and cry out `God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

Yes, and even more than that, we need to have a true sense/ conviction of how imperfect, impure and downright evil we are in the ineffable holy shekinah glory. Most believers seem to simply have no conception or just think it's some kind of game where they get to say 'No flies on me, I'm with Jesus'. We're saved by the faith of Christ, even the greatest saint knows that true humility is the way.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We need to take on Paul's personal perspective of being the chief among sinners. And that of the tax collector and cry out `God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

True but is that were we stay or do we by God's grace and faith walk in His Spirit now in newness of life *see Romans 6:1-23; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; 1 John 2:3-4?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I think scripture teaches salvation after death. Jesus has conquered death, it's no obstacle. He judges the quick and the dead, and his judgments are righteous. Holds the keys, jailbreaks the prisoners, retrieves the goods, raises the dead etc. That's what the work of the cross was about, the death of mankind in Adam and raising to life anew in Christ.

I would like you do show me a single scripture that says that the wicked receive eternal life and get a second chance after the second coming? - There is no scripture for that teaching. It is not biblical or is it supported in the scriptures.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

With respect, that's not the main argument imho. The main argument is that UR glorifies God (and has the most scriptural support). If Salvation is the omega plan, it's no victory to have to concede most of the nuts you created were just too tough for you to crack. Doubt not that even the most cynical unbeliever and wicked sinner is within reach. God will go further to save than the devil can go to destroy, Jesus will go through death and hell to pluck you from the fire. Aye there's your good news, if you can handle it.

And in that glory, the certainty that God will overcome all opposition, are we made more than conquerors. Those who fail to grasp universalism really don't get that God is unlike the others, they just want to make Him a bigger Caesar. Not same same, velly different.

How does Universalism glorify God if it teaches the same thing as the Serpent who said to Eve in the garden of Eden that if you disobey God you will not surely die? Can you see similarities here in the teachings of Universalism in giving eternal life to the unrepentant wicked after the second coming and Genesis 3:1-5?

Take Care.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I would like you do show me a single scripture that says that the wicked receive eternal life and get a second chance after the second coming? - There is no scripture for that teaching. It is not biblical or is it supported in the scriptures.

Take Care.

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? (Luke 11:13)

But we're holy and righteous, not like those evil apostles.

What makes you righteous, did you offer yourself up for crucifixion to save someone who hates you? What did you do that makes you so much more deserving, so much less wicked than anyone else?

So if the wicked get destroyed, we all get destroyed. The wicked get saved, that's how we begin to stop being wicked. Purification and healing in repentance by the grace of God.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

How does Universalism glorify God if it teaches the same thing as the Serpent who said to Eve in the garden of Eden that if you disobey God you will not surely die? Can you see similarities here in the teachings of Universalism in giving eternal life to the unrepentant wicked after the second coming and Genesis 3:1-5?

Take Care.

It glorifies God by teaching that none can resist the transformative power of His grace, that every knee will bow and tongue confess - in spirit and in truth.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? (Luke 11:13)

But we're holy and righteous, not like those evil apostles.

What makes you righteous, did you offer yourself up for crucifixion to save someone who hates you? What did you do that makes you so much more deserving, so much less wicked than anyone else?

So if the wicked get destroyed, we all get destroyed. The wicked get saved, that's how we begin to stop being wicked. Purification and healing in repentance by the grace of God.

Like I said earlier can show me a single scripture that says that the wicked receive eternal life and get a second chance after the second coming? - There is no scripture for that teaching. It is not biblical or is it supported in the scriptures.

Take Care.

 

[Saint Steven]

It glorifies God by teaching that none can resist the transformative power of His grace, that every knee will bow and tongue confess - in spirit and in truth.

That's great, thanks. Here's some scriptural support.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It glorifies God by teaching that none can resist the transformative power of His grace, that every knee will bow and tongue confess - in spirit and in truth.

This does not answer my earlier question to you either. I asked you how does Universalism glorify God if it teaches the same thing as the Serpent who said to Eve in the garden of Eden that if you disobey God you will not surely die? Can you see similarities here in the teachings of Universalism in giving eternal life to the unrepentant wicked after the second coming and Genesis 3:1-5?

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That's great, thanks. Here's some scriptural support.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)

None of these scriptures however say that the wicked will be saved after the second coming of Jesus now do they?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

This does not answer my earlier question to you either. I asked you how does Universalism glorify God if it teaches the same thing as the Serpent who said to Eve in the garden of Eden that if you disobey God you will not surely die? Can you see similarities here in the teachings of Universalism in giving eternal life to the unrepentant wicked after the second coming and Genesis 3:1-5?

Take Care.

It doesn't answer your question because it UR doesn't teach the same thing as the serpent. Come on, what have you done to deserve eternal life?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It doesn't answer your question because it UR doesn't teach the same thing as the serpent. Come on, what have you done to deserve eternal life?

I respectfully disagree. Universalism teaches the wicked will receive eternal life after the second coming right? Genesis 3:1-5 is the serpent telling Eve that if they disobey God they will not surely die. This is the same message as Universalism isn't it?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I respectfully disagree. Universalism teaches the wicked will receive eternal life after the second coming. Genesis 3:1-5 is the serpent telling Eve that if they disobey God they will not surely die. This is the same message as Universalism isn't it?

Nope, they'll die and be resurrected to judgment, and by judgment receive the life of Christ that saves. Will you be busy working your way up the ladder of divine ascent on your own steam while they're killing the fatted calf in the next room and celebrating?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nope, they'll die and be resurrected to judgment, and by judgment receive the life of Christ that saves. Will you be busy working your way up the ladder of divine ascent on your own steam while they're killing the fatted calf in the next room and celebrating?

Which is what I said. Universalism teaches the wicked will receive eternal life after the second coming right? How is Genesis 3:1-5 the serpent telling Eve that if they disobey God they will not surely die not the same message as Universalism?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Which is what I said. Universalism teaches the wicked will receive eternal life after the second coming right? How is Genesis 3:1-5 the serpent telling Eve that if they disobey God they will not surely die not the same message as Universalism?

Because they surely died. And their wickedness was overcome. How will any of our sins be overcome in the day. Perhaps you're so pure that Jesus will need to ask for your forgiveness, but as for me I'll need big cleansing and healing, were God to have a piano dropped on me tomorrow.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Because they surely died. And their wickedness was overcome. How will any of our sins be overcome in the day. Perhaps you're so pure that Jesus will need to ask for your forgiveness, but as for me I'll need big cleansing and healing, were God to have a piano dropped on me tomorrow.

You no we are talking about eternal life and eternal death right? Universalism teaches the wicked will receive eternal life after the second coming? So how is Genesis 3:1-5 the serpent telling Eve that if they disobey God they will not surely die not the same message as Universalism saying that the wicked receive eternal life for disobeying God after the second coming?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

You no we are talking about eternal life and eternal death right? Universalism teaches the wicked will receive eternal life after the second coming? So how is Genesis 3:1-5 the serpent telling Eve that if they disobey God they will not surely die not the same message as Universalism saying that the wicked receive eternal life for disobeying God after the second coming?

Universalism doesn't teach the wicked will receive life, so long as they continue in judgment. In fact, that's partly what makes us wicked - the bad habit of condemning others. So when we overcome our urge to condemn others and find it in our hearts to be merciful, we become a little less wicked, moving from curse towards blessing, where the path to salvation and the life eternal starts to open up, a state of being in Christ.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Universalism doesn't teach the wicked will receive life, so long as they continue in judgment. In fact, that's partly what makes us wicked - the bad habit of condemning others. So when we overcome our urge to condemn others and find it in our hearts to be merciful, we become a little less wicked, moving from curse towards blessing, where the path to salvation and the life eternal starts to open up, a state of being in Christ.

So let me understand you correctly. Are you saying now that the wicked do not receive eternal life now after God's judgement and they are punished and tortured in the lake of fire until God forces them all into repentance?

 

[Saint Steven]

... were God to have a piano dropped on me tomorrow.

Oh my, that's quite a picture. - lol
Way funnier than being hit by a public transit bus.

When we get to the afterlife we will know as we are known.
Will we be able to name the last Chord we heard?
The accompaniment for our departure.

Or the existential question would be: If God dropped a piano on me, but I didn't hear it, did it really happen?

Depends on where you end up I suppose.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I think it's a sin when we act like we *know* God's plans, based on the instructions we were given to live out our own lives.

What is the purpose of the Bible? To know which other people are saved, or how we should manage ourselves?