WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

[rjs330]

Good grief!!!

That is not Jesus treating the law like "hearsay," that is Jesus the Lawgiver giving new law for the New Covenant.

UR is not serving you well.

Since Jesus is God only he could give new commands and "add" to the Law. He has full authority to do so. He did not come to do away with the law, but to fulfill.it. he NEVER treated it like hearsay.

 

[ozso]

So you can not be saved from sin and live in darkness under the power of Satan and die that way, and still be saved? Cause that's not what some UR people have claimed. They even use the scripture that says every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. Saying that scripture means everyone will.believe.

But that doesn't happen before death. Therefore you can get saved and believe after you die.

"That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe." 1 Timothy 4:10. UR sees that as a separation of unbelievers from believers both being saved, but those who believe are especially saved.

 

[sparow]

You aren't familiar with Matthew chapters five and six? He treats the Law like hearsay.

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago... But I tell you..."

I cannot help you friend.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe." 1 Timothy 4:10. UR sees that as a separation of unbelievers from believers both being saved, but those who believe are especially saved.

Perhaps you need to spend more time studying about what Universalism actually teaches.

 

[sparow]

That appears to be a judgmental disparagement to someone you've barely spoken with.



Are you saying that you are a prophet?



The OT isn't invalid. The Old Testament Old covenant was foretelling of the Messiah to come who would establish a New Covenant New Testament Colossians 2:17. And the fact that Jesus came to establish a New Covenant New Testament, is why He was called a false prophet and was crucified for it.

There isn't any requirement for more prophets of the kind you may have in mind; Jesus was the last prophet, prophesy already extends past the end of time, we should know what is coming; if we don't we are asleep and with out excuse. But there are other types of prophets; John the baptist, according to Jesus was the greatest of all prophets born to women (some prophets were not), and the only prediction John made was the kingdom of God was near; Jesus expects His followers to be prophets, there is a NT prophesy saying they will be prophets, not to make predictions but preach the Gospel that John and Jesus preached and not to be false prophets
;

 

[ozso]

There isn't any requirement for more prophets of the kind you may have in mind; Jesus was the last prophet, prophesy already extends past the end of time, we should know what is coming; if we don't we are asleep and with out excuse. But there are other types of prophets; John the baptist, according to Jesus was the greatest of all prophets born to women (some prophets were not), and the only prediction John made was the kingdom of God was near; Jesus expects His followers to be prophets, there is a NT prophesy saying they will be prophets, not to make predictions but preach the Gospel that John and Jesus preached and not to be false prophets
;

How did you determine that I'm "not able to discern between the teaching of God and the teaching of men"?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Scripture determines what is true and what is not true and is why "scripture is the only rule of faith." Scripture determines what is from God and what is not from God as we are guided by His Spirit. Scripture therefore is how we can know the difference between the teachings and traditions of men and the truth of Gods' Word that we are to try the Spirits to see if they are from God or not.

 

[sparow]

How did you determine that I'm "not able to discern between the teaching of God and the teaching of men"?

I don't recall exactly, but if you were following Jesus you would not be a universalist. A teaching of men or doctrine of men is where a man is the authority behind the teaching, not Jesus or Jehovah.

 

[ozso]

I don't recall exactly, but if you were following Jesus you would not be a universalist. A teaching of men or doctrine of men is where a man is the authority behind the teaching, not Jesus or Jehovah.

I'm someone who knows about universalism. I also know about Catholicism, Protestantism, Calvinism and Arminianism etc. So which one of those am I?

Every doctrine I know of says its teaching is from the authority of the words of Jesus and Jehovah in scripture. So the criteria you've laid out applies to virtually all Christian teaching.

 

[ozso]

I don't recall exactly, but if you were following Jesus you would not be a universalist. A teaching of men or doctrine of men is where a man is the authority behind the teaching, not Jesus or Jehovah.

One other thing. Saying or implying someone isn't following Jesus ie is not a Christian is strictly against CF rules. So you might want to hold back on making personal judgements against others and just stick to discussing the topic.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'm someone who knows about universalism. I also know about Catholicism, Protestantism, Calvinism and Arminianism etc. So which one of those am I?

Every doctrine I know of says its teaching is from the authority of the words of Jesus and Jehovah in scripture. So the criteria you've laid out applies to virtually all Christian teaching.

Then how are you going to know which one is telling you the truth?

 

[sparow]

I'm someone who knows about universalism. I also know about Catholicism, Protestantism, Calvinism and Arminianism etc. So which one of those am I?

Every doctrine I know of says its teaching is from the authority of the words of Jesus and Jehovah in scripture. So the criteria you've laid out applies to virtually all Christian teaching.

One cannot depend on any Church as an authority; it is every man for himself. Some churches are better some worse, some don't force their doctrine on you, others do, some allow you to pursue your own narrow path that leads to life using them as a vehicle; I found the SDA like that, they do have minimum beliefs about four I think,one would not be there if one was not keeping the Sabbath, but we disagree on a lot (I am not one). The falling away has to occur before Jesus returns. This has been going on for a long time.

Universally, or most Churches make up the prostitute Jezebel riding on the back of the beast. Read the message to the seventh church in Revelation, it sums up the church to day.

 

[ozso]

One cannot depend on any Church as an authority; it is every man for himself. Some churches are better some worse, some don't force their doctrine on you, others do, some allow you to pursue your own narrow path that leads to life using them as a vehicle; I found the SDA like that, they do have minimum beliefs about four I think,one would not be there if one was not keeping the Sabbath, but we disagree on a lot (I am not one). The falling away has to occur before Jesus returns. This has been going on for a long time.

Universally, or most Churches make up the prostitute Jezebel riding on the back of the beast. Read the message to the seventh church in Revelation, it sums up the church to day.

There are those who have been convinced that most of the Body of Christ is the apostate harlot of babylon beast riding jezebel et al. Whereas they're one of the chosen few who aren't. Such malarkey has been generated by the likes of EG White and HW Armstrong etc. Even if they don't see it and or can't admit to it, that kind of teaching is probably how it started for them.

BTW, are you getting this ur thread mixed up with one of the sabbath law threads?

 

[ozso]

Then how are you going to know which one is telling you the truth?

One of the first steps is not committing to any particular doctrine. That's why my profile says Christian, rather than Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, Calvinist, SDA etc. Another step is not reading the Bible as a Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, Calvinist, SDA etc in order to maintain objectivity.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

One of the first steps is not committing to any particular doctrine. That's why my profile says Christian, rather than Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, Calvinist, SDA etc. Another step is not reading the Bible as a Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, Calvinist, SDA etc in order to maintain objectivity.

Wrong answer. Go read John 16:13; John 7:17; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27. We can never know Gods' truth if God is not our guide and teacher.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

So Scripture is just the springboard to launch our own notions of God.

More like a sausage to mince through the meatgrinder of systematic theology.

Scripture is alive, you can kill a butterfly and pin it to a table, but nobody will understand its truth, because it's dead and can't fly.

It's like trying to explain colour to a blind person.

Assertion without demonstration is assertion without merit.

Your interpretation leads to the punishment and destruction of most of mankind. It is no different from the pharisees' interpretation that led to the crucifixion of Christ. Both lead to murder and blaming the victim.

It's not about the external text killing while the internal meaning gives life.
That's a notion of man, not Scripture.

The Scriptural distinction is drawn between sincerity and hypocrisy of intention, not between text and meaning of script.

Gobbledegook.

 

[Saint Steven]

The OT isn't invalid. The Old Testament Old covenant was foretelling of the Messiah to come who would establish a New Covenant New Testament Colossians 2:17. And the fact that Jesus came to establish a New Covenant New Testament, is why He was called a false prophet and was crucified for it.

Right.
I like these statements in Hebrews eight.

Hebrews 8:7, 13
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[ozso]

Not at all dear friend. It is called scripture opposing the opinions, and teachings and traditions of men that are not supported by the scriptures that lead others away from God and His Word. Our opinions do not really mean much in God's eyes. According to the scriptures, only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow it *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. Of course if you have scripture to support your view your welcome to share it and of course you are free to believe as you wish, that is between you and God.

It's amazing how many times I've read that spiel from you and a couple of others. I practically have it memorized.

 

[Andrewn]

UR doesn't teach that there's a second chance, or that there's salvation after death.

If there is no 2nd chance after death, how are all people saved? Obviously, not all people are saved in this life, are they?

 

[Andrewn]

Biblical is where the Bible OT, it self is the doctrine, everything in the NT should be tested against the OT.

You got this backward. Everything in the OT should be tested against the NT, not the other way around .