WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

[LoveGodsWord]

Have you seen this?

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

I do not think it is a good idea to take scriptures from their context and seek to build a whole doctrine around it and read into the scriptures what they do not say and do not teach while disregarding the rest of the bible...

What is the context of Romans 5:18-19?

Romans 5:1 [1], Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: [2], By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Which agrees with the very words of Jesus here...

John 3:36 He that believes on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.

God has made provision for the salvation of all mankind. God's salvation however is "conditional" on believing and following what God's Word says.

Take Care

 

[Clare73]

Scriptures are already provided starting here linked. What do you think these scriptures are saying?

Do you disagree with any of the following?

If so, please quote what you disagree with.
Feel free to respond in Salvation Lost thread.

True faith saves.
True faith obeys.
But it is not faith's obedience which saves, it is only faith itself, apart from its works which saves (Ephesians 2:8-9).

And that's because "Salvation is the Lord's!" (Revelation 7:10, Revelation 19:1),
his and his alone! (Revelation 4:11, Revelation 7:12)
Man cannot say he contributed anything. . .whatsoever! (Ephesians 2:9; Romans 4:2; 1 Corinthians 1:29; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5).
For God neither gives his glory to nor shares his glory with another! (Isaiah 48:5, Isaiah 42:8).

Having been to the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-8) and given understanding of its importance and necessity, Paul is most emphatic that salvation and justification are apart from faith's works (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:2; Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20-21; Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11), but which necessary obedience leads to righteousness (Romans 6:16) leading to holiness (Romans 6:19) of sanctification, which is God's will for the believer (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you disagree with any of the following?

If so, please quote what you disagree with.

True faith saves.
True faith obeys.
But it is not faith's obedience which saves, it is only faith itself, apart from its works which saves (Ephesians 2:8-9).

And that's because "Salvation is the Lord's!" (Revelation 7:10, Revelation 19:1),
his and his alone! (Revelation 4:11, Revelation 7:12)
Man cannot say he contributed anything. . .whatsoever! (Ephesians 2:9; Romans 4:2; 1 Corinthians 1:29; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5).
For God neither gives his glory to nor shares his glory with another! (Isaiah 48:5, Isaiah 42:8).

Having been to the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-8) and given understanding of its importance and necessity, Paul is most emphatic that salvation and justification are apart from faith's works (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:2; Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20-21; Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11), but which necessary obedience leads to righteousness (Romans 6:16) leading to holiness (Romans 6:19) of sanctification, which is God's will for the believer (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

I do agree that "true faith saved and true faith obeys what Gods' Word says. Faith according to James and Paul is not separate from obeying what Gods' Word says *James 2:13-26; Romans 3:31; Hebrews 11:1-40. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by genuine faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 and according to James there is no such thing as faith that does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods' Word. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) *1 John 2:3-4. Therefore according to the scriptures, we demonstrate our faith by believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from the heart. Anything else is the dead faith of devils and is not saving faith which is why Jesus says "by their fruit you shall know them" *Matthew 7:12-23.

Genuine faith therefore is demonstrated as believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from a new heart that loves (Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-4) which is God's new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow what Gods' Word says (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; see also Romans 6:1-23 and 1 John 3:4-9; Revelation 14:12).

Justification from sin therefore is faith alone because there is nothing that we can do to atone for our sins. Sanctification on the other hand is Christian growth and growing in God's grace to become more and more like Jesus as we receive a knowledge of what Gods' Word says and is seen as believing and obeying Gods' Word from the heart as we walk in the power of Gods' Spirit *Galatians 5:16 which is a work of a lifetime and not a one time event *see John 8:31-36; Matthew 11:28-30 but is continuous growth leading to godliness *Titus 2:11-12

Take Care.

 

[Clare73]

True faith saves. . .True faith obeys.
But it is not faith's obedience which saves, it is only faith itself, apart from its works which saves (Ephesians 2:8-9). And that's because "Salvation is the Lord's!" (Revelation 7:10, Revelation 19:1), his and his alone! (Revelation 4:11, Revelation 7:12)
Man cannot say he contributed anything. . .whatsoever! (Ephesians 2:9; Romans 4:2; 1 Corinthians 1:29; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5).

For God neither gives his glory to nor shares his glory with another! (Isaiah 48:5, 42:8).
Having been to the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-8) and given understanding of its importance and necessity, Paul is most emphatic that salvation and justification are apart from faith's works (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:2; Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20-21; Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11), but which necessary obedience leads to righteousness (Romans 6:16) leading to holiness (Romans 6:19) of sanctification, which is God's will for the believer (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

I do agree that "true faith saved and true faith obeys what Gods' Word says. Faith according to James and Paul is not separate from obeying what Gods' Word says *James 2:13-26; Romans 3:31; Hebrews 11:1-40. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by genuine faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 and according to James there is no such thing as faith that does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods' Word. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) *1 John 2:3-4. Therefore according to the scriptures, we demonstrate our faith by believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from the heart. Anything else is the dead faith of devils and is not saving faith which is why Jesus says "by their fruit you shall know them" *Matthew 7:12-23.

Genuine faith therefore is demonstrated as believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from a new heart that loves (Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-4) which is God's new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow what Gods' Word says (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; see also Romans 6:1-23 and 1 John 3:4-9; Revelation 14:12).

Justification from sin therefore is faith alone because there is nothing that we can do to atone for our sins. Sanctification on the other hand is Christian growth and growing in God's grace to become more and more like Jesus as we receive a knowledge of what Gods' Word says and is seen as believing and obeying Gods' Word from the heart as we walk in the power of Gods' Spirit *Galatians 5:16 which is a work of a lifetime and not a one time event *see John 8:31-36; Matthew 11:28-30 but is continuous growth leading to godliness *Titus 2:11-12

Take Care.

I do agree that "true faith saved and true faith obeys what Gods' Word says. Faith according to James and Paul is not separate from obeying what Gods' Word says *James 2:13-26; Romans 3:31; Hebrews 11:1-40. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by genuine faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 and according to James there is no such thing as faith that does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods' Word. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) *1 John 2:3-4. Therefore according to the scriptures, we demonstrate our faith by believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from the heart. Anything else is the dead faith of devils and is not saving faith which is why Jesus says "by their fruit you shall know them" *Matthew 7:12-23.

Genuine faith therefore is demonstrated as believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from a new heart that loves (Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-4) which is God's new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow what Gods' Word says (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; see also Romans 6:1-23 and 1 John 3:4-9; Revelation 14:12).

Justification from sin therefore is faith alone because there is nothing that we can do to atone for our sins. Sanctification on the other hand is Christian growth and growing in God's grace to become more and more like Jesus as we receive a knowledge of what Gods' Word says and is seen as believing and obeying Gods' Word from the heart as we walk in the power of Gods' Spirit *Galatians 5:16 which is a work of a lifetime and not a one time event *see John 8:31-36; Matthew 11:28-30 but is continuous growth leading to godliness *Titus 2:11-12

Please quote from my post above that with which you disagree.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Please quote from my post above that with which you disagree.

There is really not enough written in your post to know exactly what you believe. If you are in agreement with the post you are quoting from then we are in agreement. I do believe saving faith saves and genuine faith leads to obeying what Gods' Word says. If you disagree with my post you are quoting from, then I am happy to show how I have interpreted your post as conflating justification with sanctification if I read your post correctly. Are you in agreement with the post you are quoting from in post # 263?

Take Care.

 

[Clare73]

There is really not enough written in your post to know exactly what you believe. If you are in agreement with the post you are quoting from then we are in agreement. I do believe saving faith saves and genuine faith leads to obeying what Gods' Word says. If you disagree with my post you are quoting from, then I am happy to show how I have interpreted your post as conflating justification with sanctification if I read your post correctly. Are you in agreement with the post you are quoting from in post # 263?

I am quoting nothing of yours from post #263.

It is my post I am quoting, #262, which you copied at the top of your post #263.

Justification (dikaiosis) = declared "not guilty," Christ's righteousness imputed (Romans 3:21), as God's righteousness (Romans 1:17) was imputed to Abraham because of faith (Genesis 5:16; Romans 4:3, Romans 4:5)

Sanctification (hagiasmos) = set apart, from sin and to God in one's life and practice

Justification and sanctification are not conflated in my post.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It is my post I am quoting in post #263.Justification (dikaiosis) = declared "not guilty," Christ's righteousness imputed, as God's righteousness (Romans 1:17, Romans 3:21) was imputed to Abraham because of faith Sanctification (hagiasmos) - set apart, from sin and to God Justification and sanctification are not conflated in my post.

Actually post # 263 is my post not your post. I asked you do you agree with it? If so we are in agreement. I did not ask you for a word definition of justification or sanctification. I said there is not enough information provided in your earlier post to know exactly what you believe or what your saying.
If you are in agreement with post # 263 that I wrote in response earlier, then we are in agreement. I do believe as you stated earlier that saving faith saves and genuine faith leads to obeying what Gods' Word says. If you disagree with post # 263, then I am happy to show how I have interpreted your post as conflating justification with sanctification if I read your post correctly. Are you in agreement with the post you are quoting from in post # 263?

Take Care

 

[Clare73]

Actually post # 263 is my post not your post.

Is there anything you disagree with in post #262?

If there is, please quote it.

Do you not intend to do that?

Justification and sanctification are not conflated in my post #262.

(Righteousness of) Justification (dikaiosis) = declared/pronounced "not guilty" by God, Christ's righteousness imputed (Romans 3:21), as God's righteousness (Romans 1:17) was imputed to Abraham because of faith (Genesis 5:16; Romans 4:3, Romans 4:5)

(Righteousness of) Sanctification (hagiasmos) = set apart, from sin and to God in one's life and practice

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Is there anything you disagree with in post #262?
If there is, please quote it. Do you not intend to do that? Justification and sanctification are not conflated in my post #262. Justification (dikaiosis) = declared/pronounced "not guilty" by God, Christ's righteousness imputed (Romans 3:21), as God's righteousness (Romans 1:17) was imputed to Abraham because of faith (Genesis 5:16; Romans 4:3, Romans 4:5)
Sanctification (hagiasmos) = set apart, from sin and to God in one's life and practice

I am asking you for clarification before I answer you so I understand what your trying to say and what you believe. Can you help me here rather than repeat what you posted already? Do you agree with post # 263 that I sent you earlier? If so we are in agreement. I did not ask you for a word definition of justification or sanctification. I said there is not enough information provided in your earlier post to know exactly what you believe or what your saying. Which is why I am asking for clarification. If you are in agreement with post # 263 that I wrote in response earlier, then we are in agreement. From reading your post I do believe as you stated earlier that saving faith saves and genuine faith leads to obeying what Gods' Word says. From reading your post t sounds like your conflating justification with sanctification which is why I am asking for clarification (not word definitions). So are you in agreement with the post you are quoting from in post # 263?

Take Care.

 

[Clare73]

I am asking you for clarification before I answer you so I understand what your trying to say and what you believe. Can you help me here rather than repeat what you posted already?

No, I can't . . .I've stated it as completely and clearly as I know how.
And it is that statement taken at its word, as it is, that I am asking if you disagree with.

So you don't intend to quote that with which you disagree in my post #262?

I have not conflated Biblical justification and sanctification there, as is seen in the following:

(Righteousness of) Justification (dikaiosis) = declared/pronounced "not guilty" by God, Christ's righteousness imputed (Romans 3:21), as God's righteousness (Romans 1:17) was imputed to Abraham because of faith (Genesis 5:16; Romans 4:3, Romans 4:5)--as in Romans 1:17, 3:20-22, 24, 4:3-6, 9, 13, 22, 8:10, 9:30, 10:3; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 3:9, 5:21; Galatians 2:21, 3:6, 11, 21; Hebrews 10:38, 11:7; James 2:23; 2 Peter 2:21, 3:13

(Righteousness of) Sanctification (hagiasmos) = set apart, from sin and to God in one's life and practice--as in Acts 24:25; Romans 6:13, 16, 18-20; Ephesians 4:24, 5:9; 1 Timothy 6:11; 2 Timothy 2:22, 3:16, 4:9; Titus 3:5; Hebrews 5:13, 12:11; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 2:29, 3:7

And since sanctification (righteousness) is the fruit of justification (righteousness)--Philipppians 1:11, the word righteousness sometimes means both--as in Romans 14:17; 2 Corinthians 6:7, 14; Ephesians 6:14; James 5:16; 1 Peter 3:12.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, I can't . . .I've stated it as completely and clearly as I know how.
And it is that statement taken at its word, as it is, that I am asking if you disagree with.

So you don't intend to quote that with which you disagree in my post #262?

I have not conflated Biblical justification and sanctification there, as is seen in the following:

(Righteousness of) Justification (dikaiosis) = declared/pronounced "not guilty" by God, Christ's righteousness imputed (Romans 3:21), as God's righteousness (Romans 1:17) was imputed to Abraham because of faith (Genesis 5:16; Romans 4:3, Romans 4:5)--as in Romans 1:17, 3:20-22, 24, 4:3-6, 9, 13, 22, 8:10, 9:30, 10:3; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 3:9, 5:21; Galatians 2:21, 3:6, 11, 21; Hebrews 10:38, 11:7; James 2:23; 2 Peter 2:21, 3:13

(Righteousness of) Sanctification (hagiasmos) = set apart, from sin and to God in one's life and practice--as in Acts 24:25; Romans 6:13, 16, 18-20; Ephesians 4:24, 5:9; 1 Timothy 6:11; 2 Timothy 2:22, 3:16, 4:9; Titus 3:5; Hebrews 5:13, 12:11; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 2:29, 3:7

And since sanctification (righteousness) is the fruit of justification (righteousness)--Philipppians 1:11, the word righteousness sometimes means both--as in Romans 14:17; 2 Corinthians 6:7, 14; Ephesians 6:14; James 5:16; 1 Peter 3:12.

As posted earlier I did not ask you for a definition of justification and sanctification. If you cannot answer my questions for clarification as to what your trying to say then how does any one know what your talking about and why is it so hard to answer my question do you agree with post # 263 that I sent you earlier? I did not think that was a very hard question and it would at least let me know if you are saying the same thing and we are in agreement or not. Your earlier post to me was vague that was the reason I was asking you for clarification so I do not have a misunderstanding as to what you believe before responding.

 

[rjs330]

Just wondering how this topic moved from UR to the current discussion. Perhaps you should open a different thread? Cause it seems like you guys definitely have commonalities is your belief on UR.

In another discussion on UR I found the supporters really lacking in regards to handling some very important scriptures. And there are no scriptures that support salvation after death.

 

[ozso]

Just wondering how this topic moved from UR to the current discussion. Perhaps you should open a different thread? Cause it seems like you guys definitely have commonalities is your belief on UR.

In another discussion on UR I found the supporters really lacking in regards to handling some very important scriptures. And there are no scriptures that support salvation after death.

Is it that they're lacking, or that they're being disregarded? It was already explained to you that UR doesn't teach that there's a second chance, or that there's salvation after death. Yet you are persisting with that scenario.

What I've noticed about those who argue against UR is they argue against ideas that don't/ shouldn't exist within UR belief.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It was already explained to you that UR doesn't teach that there's a second chance, or that there's salvation after death. Yet you are persisting with that scenario. What I've noticed about those who argue against UR is they argue against ideas that don't shouldn't exist within UR belief.

It seems you do not know what Universalism teaches. Go do some more research. Of course Universalism teaches that the wicked will be saved (All men). This of course is not biblical or supported in the scriptures. The teachings of Universalism is simply repeating the first lies told by the serpent to Eve in the garden of Eden that says you can disobey God and not surely die *Genesis 3:1-5.

Take Care.

 

[rjs330]

Is it that they're lacking, or that they're being disregarded? It was already explained to you that UR doesn't teach that there's a second chance, or that there's salvation after death. Yet you are persisting with that scenario.

What I've noticed about those who argue against UR is they argue against ideas that don't/ shouldn't exist within UR belief.

It's interesting that at least some UR people have espoused that you do have to believe to be saved. That salvation is based on belief. So, if that is the case you have to believe before you die.

Then others do say everyone will believe. If everyone believes, you are required to have that happen after death.

So, do you believe that you have to have belief in Jesus in order to be saved or not as Jesus said in John? Or all the other scripture that speak of believe on Him?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It's interesting that at least some UR people have espoused that you do have to believe to be saved. That salvation is based on belief. So, if that is the case you have to believe before you die.

Then others do say everyone will believe. If everyone believes, you are required to have that happen after death.

So, do you believe that you have to have belief in Jesus in order to be saved or not?

I have been speaking to many here that believe that the wicked will be tortured in the lake of fire until they repent and God forces them to follow him then God gives them eternal life. I mean what kind of God is that? Not the one of the bible.

 

[rjs330]

I have been speaking to many here that believe that the wicked will be tortured in the lake of fire until they repent and God forces them to follow him then God gives them eternal life. I mean what kind of God is that? Not the one of the bible.

I have been discussing the doctrine of UR with those that believe in it and it often degenerates into a discussion on hell etc.

I much rather just discuss the doctrine of UR because it's two different subjects.

I think a thread on what happens to the dead after they die in regards to the saved and unsaved is a great topic for another thread.

 

[sparow]

In the early church it was known as Apocatastasis. Christian universalism is biblical in that it uses a lot of proof texts from the Bible. As for what the Pope believes, you might be surprised if you watch this four minute video:

What you describe isn't what biblical is, unless you are changing established concepts and language placing yourself outside the normal Judaeo/Christian space. Biblical is where the Bible OT, it self is the doctrine, everything in the NT should be tested against the OT.

If Based on scripture was Biblical then the Koran would be Biblical.

 

[sparow]

Yes. I think I have seen both of them. - lol

It would be good for you to view this unbiased presentation about the three biblical Christian views of the final judgment. (hell)

I am interested in what people think, but I discriminate, I listen long to people with a good argument and little to people with only opinion.

The final judgement of the wicked is the second death, whether that is unpleasant or painful I do not know, but the second death is a cancellation; it involves all records one's person being deleted such that there is no memory of the person having ever existed, nothing that would enable the person to be resurrected. Read about it in Revelation.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I am interested in what people think, but I discriminate, I listen long to people with a good argument and little to people with only opinion.

The final judgement of the wicked is the second death, whether that is unpleasant or painful I do not know, but the second death is a cancellation; it involves all records one's person being deleted such that there is no memory of the person having ever existed, nothing that would enable the person to be resurrected. Read about it in Revelation.

Do you mean 'Blessed are the dead that die in Christ from here on in'? (Rev 14:13)

Or those that are 'hurt' by the second death? (Rev 2:11). Being hurt is probably not the big ticket item when you're facing eternal death, or am I missing something?

And how about the repentant nations, who come in Revelation 21:24-26 through the ever-open Pearly Gates to worship? That's ALL the nations, as per the new song prophecy of Revelation 15:4. Won't be singing the new song yourself, prefer the old 78s?

And what about the leaves of the tree of life for the healing of these renewed nations in Revelation 22:2?

Just keeps on coming, cascading truth to behold as God makes all things new, but can you actually see it though the morass of Caananite doctrine you've been fed?

You know Paul died daily. Lest a grain of wheat fall to the ground, how can we have the new wineskins?