Why The Trinity is a False Teaching - Summarized Doctrinal Reasons

[nothead]

How hard would it be for you to cease your comic-book talk, where you sound like Peppermint Patty, with all this "sir" stuff. I know you think it's clever, but I still say it seriously detracts from your presentation. Also, as I have suggested before, you need to carefully review the biblical passages that Trinitarians call on. They definitely are not speaking out of thin air, as you falsely caricaturize them.

I've investigated the deity of Jesus, have you done so sir yourself? The investigation truly took about six months...and that is when I realized Shema negates Jesus being God altogether. Impossible. And when that happened, I knew Trinitarianism was as I have considered for over twenty years ALSO more impossible than I previously considered it.

 

[nothead]

I find your critique of the Trinity is OK, but that's about it. It lacks any real imagination. God may very well have complex social relationships with himself or herself that we do not have. I think that creation is God's way of entering into complexity and therefore self-consciousness. Hence, in creation, God differentiated into Father and Son, in whom God created all things. Creation is both other than God and yet part of the being of God. God can glorify Christ, in the sense I can bless and glorify parts of my body. My cells are individual feeling entities or personalities. In one sense, they are other than me, yet they are also part of me.

Sounds mystical. Maybe not so much biblical. Keep to the text, and we can usually agree. Sola Scriptura, sir.

A trinitarian HAS to say Jesus is Co-Creator. FIND it in text, and then we can agree and be on that Michael Jackson commercial in the sky. Holdin' hands and singing angelic songs.

 

[Hoghead1]

Sounds mystical. Maybe not so much biblical. Keep to the text, and we can usually agree. Sola Scriptura, sir.

A trinitarian HAS to say Jesus is Co-Creator. FIND it in text, and then we can agree and be on that Michael Jackson commercial in the sky. Holdin' hands and singing angelic songs.

Yes, it is mystical. No, we can't just stick with Scripture when it comes to the Trinity. The Trinitarian doctrines are largely extra-biblical in nature. The Trinity is implied in Scripture, but not fully worked out there.

 

[Hoghead1]

I've investigated the deity of Jesus, have you done so sir yourself? The investigation truly took about six months...and that is when I realized Shema negates Jesus being God altogether. Impossible. And when that happened, I knew Trinitarianism was as I have considered for over twenty years ALSO more impossible than I previously considered it.

Well, I think you should do some more investigating and cool it with the wise-guy silly talk.

 

[nothead]

Yes, it is mystical. No, we can't just stick with Scripture when it comes to the Trinity. The Trinitarian doctrines are largely extra-biblical in nature. The Trinity is implied in Scripture, but not fully worked out there.

Why WASN'T the Trinity fully worked out, when from the gospels alone, EACH one alone a man woman or child COULD FIND the gospel Way and in turn life everlasting sir? You think the first gen saints were TOO RETARDED to get the Paradigm of Trinity or what, sir? And HOW would a Paradigm developed as an EXTENSION of gospel be salvific in and of itself, sir? God any idears? God straight up and sharp thinking? God God Theology?

Really the admission that this TRINITY Paradigm was an ADD-ON, has a dire implication. Either Jesus was fully UNAWARE of the issue, or he thought it TOO MUNDANE to even say specifically. And what would this mean to YOU sir?

 

[nothead]

Well, I think you should do some more investigating and cool it with the wise-guy silly talk.

Thanks, you know I always take your words straight to mine own heartless heart.

 

[Hoghead1]

Why WASN'T the Trinity fully worked out, when from the gospels alone, EACH one alone a man woman or child COULD FIND the gospel Way and in turn life everlasting sir? You think the first gen saints were TOO RETARDED to get the Paradigm of Trinity or what, sir? And HOW would a Paradigm developed as an EXTENSION of gospel be salvific in and of itself, sir? God any idears? God straight up and sharp thinking? God God Theology?

One major reason being that the Bible is not a book of systematic theology and metaphysics. The latter were the contributions of Hellenic culture to Christianity.

 

[nothead]

One major reason being that the Bible is not a book of systematic theology and metaphysics. The latter were the contributions of Hellenic culture to Christianity.

Neither do I treat it as such. Thank you for your support. Alms would be nice too.

Oh...WAIT. You are saying hellenistic influences are GOOD for us. Wow sir. How many angels can dance on the tip of a needle sir? Know THAT gnostic thingybobber and be a sage, sir.

 

[Hoghead1]

Neither do I treat it as such. Thank you for your support. Alms would be nice too.

Less smart-alec, sarcastic remarks would also be nice, too, on your part.

 

[nothead]

Less smart-alec, sarcastic remarks would also be nice, too, on your part.

I yam what I yam. Better HOPE I don't eat ona them cans of YUCK sir.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

imallllikeokwaitwhat,

Sorry to cut in but what is illogical about the trinity to you specifically?
What is your context that you believe about the God head and that you think is so logical and more logical than the trinity and can you prove it by scripture? Jerry Kelso

All of it. Some specifics are god becoming a baby and removing his "godness" to become the perfect sacrifice for human kind. Which is somewhat of a fraud if he was God. It goes against everything we know about God being just and honest. Which God is of course but if you buy into the trinity then God is just playing games with us. God can indeed take the form of a man which he did in a few places in the old testament and in revelation but he didn't do it as Jesus. He appeared to abraham with the 2 angels. You could also argue he appeared as a man or some physical form to john in revelation when hes on his throne holding the scrolls. Also you could argue it at genesis when adam and eve hear him walking around.

Back to the trinity, it just doesn't pass the common sense test as well. God became a man to save us all. That is how much God loves us that he "cheats" and lies to give us all this happy ending. How does the trinity make God a liar and cheater? Well he would be a cheater if he breaks his rules and a liar if he says there is one God and there are three in one which isn't in the bible. I don't believe God is a cheater or a liar. I don't believe God has to cheat to beat the devil. Neither do I think he has to lie to us about being one God. Nor hide there is three in one like trinitarians believe.

The trinity is about 100 verses taken out of context and mistranslated to create a coequal three in one trinity. You can't just cherry pick verses and say oh thomas said jesus was his god therefore he is God. Jewish people for one believe in one God not three persons in one godhead. So if the trinity exists it must have been hidden and if hidden never revealed by anyone in the bible.

The burden of proof of there being a trinity lays on the trinitarian. I am not convinced at all by any of the evidence of trinitarians. I've already spent a lot of time debunking the verses used to prove the trinity like john 1:1 etc. If you come into these verses with the preconceived idea like the translators of these verses that there is this trinitarian godhead then of course you will believe in the trinity. I myself however have no bias and seek only the truth and without the blinders on can see the truth.

Can god remove his godly abilities hop into marys womb and have his turn in this fun existence we call life and study the old testament and become tempted by the devil and play this farfetched absurd game with humanity? Even if the answer is yes the question would be how can he be just and good if he is playing these games with humanity and the devil? The answer is God is good and just and he takes his creation very seriously and would never do such a thing. Man would do such things but not our father in heaven. This is not a game. It would be if the trinity is true. God wouldn't be just and good if the trinity is true. God isn't thee God if the trinity is true. God is God because he is just and good and holy and has perfect love etc..... Without even one of these characteristics he couldn't be God. And there would be no God but I believe there is a God and thats why I don't believe in the trinity because it contradicts everything the bible says about God.

 

[jerry kelso]

All of it. Some specifics are god becoming a baby and removing his "godness" to become the perfect sacrifice for human kind. Which is somewhat of a fraud if he was God. It goes against everything we know about God being just and honest. Which God is of course but if you buy into the trinity then God is just playing games with us. God can indeed take the form of a man which he did in a few places in the old testament and in revelation but he didn't do it as Jesus. He appeared to abraham with the 2 angels. You could also argue he appeared as a man or some physical form to john in revelation when hes on his throne holding the scrolls. Also you could argue it at genesis when adam and eve hear him walking around.

Back to the trinity, it just doesn't pass the common sense test as well. God became a man to save us all. That is how much God loves us that he "cheats" and lies to give us all this happy ending. How does the trinity make God a liar and cheater? Well he would be a cheater if he breaks his rules and a liar if he says there is one God and there are three in one which isn't in the bible. I don't believe God is a cheater or a liar. I don't believe God has to cheat to beat the devil. Neither do I think he has to lie to us about being one God. Nor hide there is three in one like trinitarians believe.

The trinity is about 100 verses taken out of context and mistranslated to create a coequal three in one trinity. You can't just cherry pick verses and say oh thomas said jesus was his god therefore he is God. Jewish people for one believe in one God not three persons in one godhead. So if the trinity exists it must have been hidden and if hidden never revealed by anyone in the bible.

The burden of proof of there being a trinity lays on the trinitarian. I am not convinced at all by any of the evidence of trinitarians. I've already spent a lot of time debunking the verses used to prove the trinity like john 1:1 etc. If you come into these verses with the preconceived idea like the translators of these verses that there is this trinitarian godhead then of course you will believe in the trinity. I myself however have no bias and seek only the truth and without the blinders on can see the truth.

Can god remove his godly abilities hop into marys womb and have his turn in this fun existence we call life and study the old testament and become tempted by the devil and play this farfetched absurd game with humanity? Even if the answer is yes the question would be how can he be just and good if he is playing these games with humanity and the devil? The answer is God is good and just and he takes his creation very seriously and would never do such a thing. Man would do such things but not our father in heaven. This is not a game. It would be if the trinity is true. God wouldn't be just and good if the trinity is true. God isn't thee God if the trinity is true. God is God because he is just and good and holy and has perfect love etc..... Without even one of these characteristics he couldn't be God. And there would be no God but I believe there is a God and thats why I don't believe in the trinity because it contradicts everything the bible says about God.

i'mlikeokwaitwhat,

1. All of it is your opinion. Every position has certain parts that can have somewhat logic even according to certain scripture, but this doesn't mean that in the overall context it is right. So you are a little misled on this or were not aware of it or what you said or whatever the case may be.

2. I don't believe God removed his Godness and most trinitarians don't believe that way. This means you are either talking about some other kind of trinitarian or it is your opinion and conjecture. So their is no fraud on my part. Jesus claimed deity in his life on earth and that is the big reason the scribes and pharisees wanted to kill him then because he equaled himself with God so this doesn't contradict that God wasn't just and honest. My view of the trinity is not what you claim it is.

3. God has a spirit body and in the old testament the second person of the Godhead would not be Jesus because his time had not come yet to fulfill.
Appearing in different forms God can do as an eternal spirit.

4. God has a spirit body and Jesus is Spirit but he also has his human body that is still glorified because he showed he prints to Thomas after the resurrection and in Revelation 5. This does not do away with the second person of the Godhead of Jesus deity as the begotten of the first person of the Godhead who became the Father in the end of the old testament period when the law and the prophets concerning the prophecies about the Messiah and the Mosaic law was to come to an end. Adam and Eve had literal dialogue with God and that is scripture that is literal and not an allegory. So far you haven't made any valid point for trinity being illogical.

5. Your common sense test: God became a man to save all. Correction; God became a man but was still God; the God Man.

6. Your accusation is that the belief in trinity makes God a cheater and a liar.
You didn't say how he is cheating or what rule he is breaking. You are basing your opinion on your belief that God being one is only one in number and that three in one according to the trinity is not scriptural which I have posted scriptures to prove that wrong. Compound unity is taught throughout scripture with all 3 members of the Godhead and they execute their responsibilities independent of each other. John specifically states their are three that bear record and witness in heaven. They are all called God and Lord and Yehovah etc. which proves them all being deity so the oneness is in unity that is never unbroken.
This means your cheater liar theory is erroneous and cannot be proved by scripture. They were not hidden and the main reason for God being one for the believer was unity but for the unbeliever was to thwart the idea of pantheism that the heathens believed in and not cause confusion or for the heathen to try and bring God down to their level.

7. Your 100 verses out of context is your opinion and hermeneutics and definitions and beliefs and you haven't proved it by a scripture or how those 100 verses are out of context.
I don't believe in cherry picking verses because one has to take in account all the scriptures and their immediate context and how it differs or harmonizes with the overall context. At the same time I would have to say that 100 verses is not cherry picking because in those 100 I would use the very scriptures you use to prove there is no trinity to prove that your point of view is wrong.

8. I do not believe in having blinders and I believe in complete exegesis so I am not beholding strictly to any and every type of specific school of thought.
I have not seen your view of John 1:1 but I am sure that I probably have heard it before as well. Your usage of the interpretation to come to your conclusion can be said of the same thing you say about me and how I arrive at the interpretation and this happens naturally when it comes to exegetical disagreements.
I have no bias either except for the truth. So once again you have given no logical reason that the trinity is illogical.

9. The burden of proof is rightly dividing the word in its proper perspective which is rendered by the scriptures themselves.

10. God can do many things we don't think logical because he is supernatural. There are some things he will not do when it goes against his nature and holiness.
Can God be one as the Father and be separate as the son and talk to him and be the Holy Spirit at the same time doing something else as the oneness denomination believe. Sure it is a possibility but not a probability but to the human logic it would be illogical.
Christadelphians believe Jesus was human only because they know he was a man and know he was made sinless to begin with when he was conceived by the Holy Spirit. This is illogical but Jesus but he couldn't be the true mediator between God and man if he wasn't the God-man. Even though he was God he came to be God in the flesh so he could identify with man and his sufferings which he didn't know as God. Read Hebrews.
Compound unity answers to the submission theory and shows the kenosis of Christ of which he emptied himself of his Godly attributes as far as using them. Most likely you don't believe he can do that but it is just your opinion for you have no scripture to prove otherwise.

10. God is not playing games and you have not proved anything by scripture of what you have just posted that shows believe in the trinity is playing games that he is not just and good. He is just and good because he shows the one in unity between his father and himself in the words, me and my father are one and his body which is one has many members and we are all one in him. Both Jews and Gentiles were reconciled to God to become one body of Christ whereas we are many members and one in him and many members who would become one perfect man. God is good, holy, and just and perfect in love for he is love and the essence of it. Unity is reciprocal and relational and more than one in number but one in perfect unity. So the trinity doesn't do away with any of these characteristics.
So once again you have not proved one thing that makes the trinity illogical or contradictory to the word. Jerry kelso

 

[nothead]

i'mlikeokwaitwhat,

1. All of it is your opinion. Every position has certain parts that can have somewhat logic even according to certain scripture, but this doesn't mean that in the overall context it is right. So you are a little misled on this or were not aware of it or what you said or whatever the case may be.

James White Piddly Argument. The WHOLE of the Bible shows Trinity. NONE of the Bible EVER showed a Trinity.

2. I don't believe God removed his Godness and most trinitarians don't believe that way. This means you are either talking about some other kind of trinitarian or it is your opinion and conjecture. So their is no fraud on my part. Jesus claimed deity in his life on earth and that is the big reason the scribes and pharisees wanted to kill him then because he equaled himself with God so this doesn't contradict that God wasn't just and honest. My view of the trinity is not what you claim it is.

How do you explain then the fact that Jesus did not know things and SAID so?
1) Who touched his hem.
2) What the name of Legion was.
3) Why his God seemed to be separate from him in consciousness at the Cross, at the end.
4) When he would come back to rule one thousand years.
5) Who would sit at his left and right hands in heaven.
6) That he would tarry in the Temple, thereby being able to WARN his parents he would do so, therefore honoring them.

3. God has a spirit body and in the old testament the second person of the Godhead would not be Jesus because his time had not come yet to fulfill.
Appearing in different forms God can do as an eternal spirit.

This would be a possiblility if God can have more than one will, one God-mind. He can't.

This could be possible if God and man can mix, the Godman. Impossible. Like mixing man with a slug, what you got? And how would you get around slime or walk? Indeed, the few POSSIBLE occurrences of God appearing as a man in the OT was considered God POSING as man, RETAINING His own mind and will. And APPEARING as flesh.

The Bible specifically says God is NOT a man that He should lie or the SON OF MAN that He should repent. "Son of man" was IDIOM for being human. How many times did Jesus STATE he was the Son of Man, sir? And how many times is Jesus CALLED a man in NT? 150 times. Problem is, you CAN'T add on GOD since these are absolute statements. Even ANOINTED and SENT he is still a MAN. Empowered by his God, STILL a man. And why CALL him a man ifn he is God anyway? God BECAME man?
Then the GOD in Godman would be and was not emphasized.

4. God has a spirit body and Jesus is Spirit but he also has his human body that is still glorified because he showed he prints to Thomas after the resurrection and in Revelation 5. This does not do away with the second person of the Godhead of Jesus deity as the begotten of the first person of the Godhead who became the Father in the end of the old testament period when the law and the prophets concerning the prophecies about the Messiah and the Mosaic law was to come to an end. Adam and Eve had literal dialogue with God and that is scripture that is literal and not an allegory. So far you haven't made any valid point for trinity being illogical.

Once you let a SINGLE person be equal to YHWH Elohim, you opened the Pandora's Box. What is to STOP the number of Persons, sir? INDEED Benny Hinn SAID there were 9 Persons in God. The RCC SAID that Olde Holy Spirit whom no one EVER worshiped or prayed to specifically was ALSO God. And no end to the confusion, don't you see this?

5. Your common sense test: God became a man to save all. Correction; God became a man but was still God; the God Man.

How could this be again if he did not know all things? Did not beam around like Scotty? Wasn't in two or more places at the same time? Never said or claimed he was God? ALWAYS spoke of his God as "the Father?" NOT himself? SAID by himself he could do nothing? SAID all glory CAME from his Father? SAID the scribe was discerning WHO said there is no God but HE, YHWH? Who could not do miracles in his home town because of the lack of faith? God can't do miracles IN SPITE of us? Huh?

6. Your accusation is that the belief in trinity makes God a cheater and a liar.
You didn't say how he is cheating or what rule he is breaking. You are basing your opinion on your belief that God being one is only one in number and that three in one according to the trinity is not scriptural which I have posted scriptures to prove that wrong. Compound unity is taught throughout scripture with all 3 members of the Godhead and they execute their responsibilities independent of each other. John specifically states their are three that bear record and witness in heaven. They are all called God and Lord and Yehovah etc. which proves them all being deity so the oneness is in unity that is never unbroken.
This means your cheater liar theory is erroneous and cannot be proved by scripture. They were not hidden and the main reason for God being one for the believer was unity but for the unbeliever was to thwart the idea of pantheism that the heathens believed in and not cause confusion or for the heathen to try and bring God down to their level.

WhatokayWait is saying he believes what the Bible says is true not a lie. No more and no less here.

7. Your 100 verses out of context is your opinion and hermeneutics and definitions and beliefs and you haven't proved it by a scripture or how those 100 verses are out of context.
I don't believe in cherry picking verses because one has to take in account all the scriptures and their immediate context and how it differs or harmonizes with the overall context. At the same time I would have to say that 100 verses is not cherry picking because in those 100 I would use the very scriptures you use to prove there is no trinity to prove that your point of view is wrong.

Trinity was "proven" long ago via first the "homoousias" between Jesus and God. But even if true, Homoousias is a zillion miles away from TRINITY. How you got to Trinity only the Vicissitudes of Man can tell.

8. I do not believe in having blinders and I believe in complete exegesis so I am not beholding strictly to any and every type of specific school of thought.
I have not seen your view of John 1:1 but I am sure that I probably have heard it before as well. Your usage of the interpretation to come to your conclusion can be said of the same thing you say about me and how I arrive at the interpretation and this happens naturally when it comes to exegetical disagreements.
I have no bias either except for the truth. So once again you have given no logical reason that the trinity is illogical.

I do. It directly opposes SHEMA. Shema specifically states YHWH Elohim the ONLY God. Jesus wasn't YHWH Elohim. Never said he was.

It directly opposes the First Command of the Ten as well. By abrogating the FIRST Bastions of the Jewish Faith you ALSO abrogated the FIRST Tenets of Hebraic TRUTH sir. IN the Bible. PROCLAIMED by God Himself, whereas your Piddly Trinity Paradigm was not PROCLAIMED by God, any prophet, any apostle any discipe or Jesus himself either.

9. The burden of proof is rightly dividing the word in its proper perspective which is rendered by the scriptures themselves.

James White clone.

10. God can do many things we don't think logical because he is supernatural. There are some things he will not do when it goes against his nature and holiness.

God cannot lie OR repent. God cannot sin. Because God is intrinsically God. Jews knew this. You do not.

Can God be one as the Father and be separate as the son and talk to him and be the Holy Spirit at the same time doing something else as the oneness denomination believe. Sure it is a possibility but not a probability but to the human logic it would be illogical.

Again, your DEFINITION of "God" is not Semitic. NOW you have stepped into the World of the Gnostic.

Christadelphians believe Jesus was human only because they know he was a man and know he was made sinless to begin with when he was conceived by the Holy Spirit. This is illogical but Jesus but he couldn't be the true mediator between God and man if he wasn't the God-man. Even though he was God he came to be God in the flesh so he could identify with man and his sufferings which he didn't know as God. Read Hebrews.
Compound unity answers to the submission theory and shows the kenosis of Christ of which he emptied himself of his Godly attributes as far as using them. Most likely you don't believe he can do that but it is just your opinion for you have no scripture to prove otherwise.

Not a single scripture EVER said Jesus shared Absolute Deity via "compound unity." Find a SINGLE one.

10. God is not playing games and you have not proved anything by scripture of what you have just posted that shows believe in the trinity is playing games that he is not just and good. He is just and good because he shows the one in unity between his father and himself in the words, me and my father are one and his body which is one has many members and we are all one in him. Both Jews and Gentiles were reconciled to God to become one body of Christ whereas we are many members and one in him and many members who would become one perfect man. God is good, holy, and just and perfect in love for he is love and the essence of it. Unity is reciprocal and relational and more than one in number but one in perfect unity. So the trinity doesn't do away with any of these characteristics.
So once again you have not proved one thing that makes the trinity illogical or contradictory to the word. Jerry kelso

The Trinity is an add-on app. You put in your bean hoping to improve it. But it let a virus into your head. Now you are hopelessly corrupted.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

i'mlikeokwaitwhat,

1. All of it is your opinion. Every position has certain parts that can have somewhat logic even according to certain scripture, but this doesn't mean that in the overall context it is right. So you are a little misled on this or were not aware of it or what you said or whatever the case may be.

2. I don't believe God removed his Godness and most trinitarians don't believe that way. This means you are either talking about some other kind of trinitarian or it is your opinion and conjecture. So their is no fraud on my part. Jesus claimed deity in his life on earth and that is the big reason the scribes and pharisees wanted to kill him then because he equaled himself with God so this doesn't contradict that God wasn't just and honest. My view of the trinity is not what you claim it is.

3. God has a spirit body and in the old testament the second person of the Godhead would not be Jesus because his time had not come yet to fulfill.
Appearing in different forms God can do as an eternal spirit.

4. God has a spirit body and Jesus is Spirit but he also has his human body that is still glorified because he showed he prints to Thomas after the resurrection and in Revelation 5. This does not do away with the second person of the Godhead of Jesus deity as the begotten of the first person of the Godhead who became the Father in the end of the old testament period when the law and the prophets concerning the prophecies about the Messiah and the Mosaic law was to come to an end. Adam and Eve had literal dialogue with God and that is scripture that is literal and not an allegory. So far you haven't made any valid point for trinity being illogical.

5. Your common sense test: God became a man to save all. Correction; God became a man but was still God; the God Man.

6. Your accusation is that the belief in trinity makes God a cheater and a liar.
You didn't say how he is cheating or what rule he is breaking. You are basing your opinion on your belief that God being one is only one in number and that three in one according to the trinity is not scriptural which I have posted scriptures to prove that wrong. Compound unity is taught throughout scripture with all 3 members of the Godhead and they execute their responsibilities independent of each other. John specifically states their are three that bear record and witness in heaven. They are all called God and Lord and Yehovah etc. which proves them all being deity so the oneness is in unity that is never unbroken.
This means your cheater liar theory is erroneous and cannot be proved by scripture. They were not hidden and the main reason for God being one for the believer was unity but for the unbeliever was to thwart the idea of pantheism that the heathens believed in and not cause confusion or for the heathen to try and bring God down to their level.

7. Your 100 verses out of context is your opinion and hermeneutics and definitions and beliefs and you haven't proved it by a scripture or how those 100 verses are out of context.
I don't believe in cherry picking verses because one has to take in account all the scriptures and their immediate context and how it differs or harmonizes with the overall context. At the same time I would have to say that 100 verses is not cherry picking because in those 100 I would use the very scriptures you use to prove there is no trinity to prove that your point of view is wrong.

8. I do not believe in having blinders and I believe in complete exegesis so I am not beholding strictly to any and every type of specific school of thought.
I have not seen your view of John 1:1 but I am sure that I probably have heard it before as well. Your usage of the interpretation to come to your conclusion can be said of the same thing you say about me and how I arrive at the interpretation and this happens naturally when it comes to exegetical disagreements.
I have no bias either except for the truth. So once again you have given no logical reason that the trinity is illogical.

9. The burden of proof is rightly dividing the word in its proper perspective which is rendered by the scriptures themselves.

10. God can do many things we don't think logical because he is supernatural. There are some things he will not do when it goes against his nature and holiness.
Can God be one as the Father and be separate as the son and talk to him and be the Holy Spirit at the same time doing something else as the oneness denomination believe. Sure it is a possibility but not a probability but to the human logic it would be illogical.
Christadelphians believe Jesus was human only because they know he was a man and know he was made sinless to begin with when he was conceived by the Holy Spirit. This is illogical but Jesus but he couldn't be the true mediator between God and man if he wasn't the God-man. Even though he was God he came to be God in the flesh so he could identify with man and his sufferings which he didn't know as God. Read Hebrews.
Compound unity answers to the submission theory and shows the kenosis of Christ of which he emptied himself of his Godly attributes as far as using them. Most likely you don't believe he can do that but it is just your opinion for you have no scripture to prove otherwise.

10. God is not playing games and you have not proved anything by scripture of what you have just posted that shows believe in the trinity is playing games that he is not just and good. He is just and good because he shows the one in unity between his father and himself in the words, me and my father are one and his body which is one has many members and we are all one in him. Both Jews and Gentiles were reconciled to God to become one body of Christ whereas we are many members and one in him and many members who would become one perfect man. God is good, holy, and just and perfect in love for he is love and the essence of it. Unity is reciprocal and relational and more than one in number but one in perfect unity. So the trinity doesn't do away with any of these characteristics.
So once again you have not proved one thing that makes the trinity illogical or contradictory to the word. Jerry kelso

1.You asked what was illogical about the trinity and I told you. If something makes no sense it is illogical.

2.Jesus never claimed to be God. If you want to translate and interpret a scripture into jesus saying he is god go ahead but he never says I am god. You have to read it into the scriptures. If it was so clear and cut of jesus saying he is God you and I would not be having this discussion right now.
5. This is absurd. This whole God man doctrine is what makes people turned off by christianity. You are saying god became a man but was still God lol. You can't be a man and still be God. That sounds like some kind of greek mythology.
6.The rule he is breaking is the rules of his nature. His nature of being just. There is nothing just about stepping in himself and saving humanity. If a man handed over the power of the world to satan then it takes a man to take it back. Not a God man. Just listen to yourself. God man??????? thats just absurd. This term is found no where in scripture for a reason.
10. All throughout the old testament it talks about the redeemer being a man. Never a god man. Why do you think a god man is the requirement to be the redeemer of man? That is something man made up.

God becoming a baby then studying the old testament and going through this whole human ordeal and suffering makes jesus a fraud. If jesus was God he couldn't be tempted he couldn't suffer. Yet you just will say he has 2 natures a divine nature and a human nature. That just flips on and off like a light switch at random? Because if he could control it then why would he ever choose the human nature ever? Jesus even said there are things he doesn't know that only the father knows. Why would god in the form of jesus say that?

The trinity is a very important topic and there are way less important things plainly stated in the bible that if you really think God wants us to go on some wild goose chase and make all these convoluted twists and turns of scripture to arrive at this god man theory you have then i'm at a loss for words. Thats not the god jesus spoke of. Or the one found in the bible.

My question for you is why did god Hide the trinity from the jews and from the church? Why didn't paul reveal it? Why didn't jesus reveal it? Why do you have to use verses like john 1:1 and mistranslate and misinterpret it to fit your doctrine? John 1:1 says in the beginning. The beginning of genesis 1? Or the beginning of the new creation? Look at john 20:30 and 31 to find out why john wrote the book.

Jhn 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
Jhn 20:31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The whole book is written so you may know he is the son of God. Not a God man. You have a deeply held belief and have done a lot of reading to justify your position but you have read the wrong books and have come to the wrong conclusion. The orthodox position is incorrect when it comes to this whole god man trinity issue.

I will state this one last time. The logos is the word God uses to represent his purpose for the new creation. This was fulfilled through Jesus Christ.

The word can not be with God and be God likewise the bible says jesus is the image of God. You can not be the image of an object and be the object itself.

You have taken the trinity on faith in the parts that you dont understand, what I am telling you is open your eyes and read a book from the other perspective if you so dare. Just trusting the establishment isn't wise.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

John 1:1 is simple

the logos, the plan, purpose and wisdom of God, was with God, and what God was (i.e., holy, true, pure, righteous, etc.) his logos was too.

 

[Hoghead1]

1.You asked what was illogical about the trinity and I told you. If something makes no sense it is illogical.

2.Jesus never claimed to be God. If you want to translate and interpret a scripture into jesus saying he is god go ahead but he never says I am god. You have to read it into the scriptures. If it was so clear and cut of jesus saying he is God you and I would not be having this discussion right now.
5. This is absurd. This whole God man doctrine is what makes people turned off by christianity. You are saying god became a man but was still God lol. You can't be a man and still be God. That sounds like some kind of greek mythology.
6.The rule he is breaking is the rules of his nature. His nature of being just. There is nothing just about stepping in himself and saving humanity. If a man handed over the power of the world to satan then it takes a man to take it back. Not a God man. Just listen to yourself. God man??????? thats just absurd. This term is found no where in scripture for a reason.
10. All throughout the old testament it talks about the redeemer being a man. Never a god man. Why do you think a god man is the requirement to be the redeemer of man? That is something man made up.

God becoming a baby then studying the old testament and going through this whole human ordeal and suffering makes jesus a fraud. If jesus was God he couldn't be tempted he couldn't suffer. Yet you just will say he has 2 natures a divine nature and a human nature. That just flips on and off like a light switch at random? Because if he could control it then why would he ever choose the human nature ever? Jesus even said there are things he doesn't know that only the father knows. Why would god in the form of jesus say that?

The trinity is a very important topic and there are way less important things plainly stated in the bible that if you really think God wants us to go on some wild goose chase and make all these convoluted twists and turns of scripture to arrive at this god man theory you have then i'm at a loss for words. Thats not the god jesus spoke of. Or the one found in the bible.

My question for you is why did god Hide the trinity from the jews and from the church? Why didn't paul reveal it? Why didn't jesus reveal it? Why do you have to use verses like john 1:1 and mistranslate and misinterpret it to fit your doctrine? John 1:1 says in the beginning. The beginning of genesis 1? Or the beginning of the new creation? Look at john 20:30 and 31 to find out why john wrote the book.

Jhn 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
Jhn 20:31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The whole book is written so you may know he is the son of God. Not a God man. You have a deeply held belief and have done a lot of reading to justify your position but you have read the wrong books and have come to the wrong conclusion. The orthodox position is incorrect when it comes to this whole god man trinity issue.

I will state this one last time. The logos is the word God uses to represent his purpose for the new creation. This was fulfilled through Jesus Christ.

The word can not be with God and be God likewise the bible says jesus is the image of God. You can not be the image of an object and be the object itself.

You have taken the trinity on faith in the parts that you dont understand, what I am telling you is open your eyes and read a book from the other perspective if you so dare. Just trusting the establishment isn't wise.

It is true that the Arians rejected the Deity of Christ on the basis that Christ changed and also suffered, whereas God was assumed to be wholly immutable and without emotion, most especially any form of negative emotion. What happened was that the early church began incorporating Hellenic metaphysics into its theology. The reason is that the Bible is not a book of metaphysics. The Greeks tended to downplay the world of time and change as a big illusion, evil. Hence, they enshrined the
immune and the immutable. Translated into the Christian of doctrine of God, this meat God was understood to be void of body, parts,passions, compassion, wholly immutable, as we finding the major creeds and also the writings of the fathers. However, since WW2 theologians, including myself, have challenged this model for lopsided, unrealistic, unbiblical, and yielding but an insensitive God. An alternative model of God has been proposed which is termed neo-classical theism.

 

[jerry kelso]

1.You asked what was illogical about the trinity and I told you. If something makes no sense it is illogical.

2.Jesus never claimed to be God. If you want to translate and interpret a scripture into jesus saying he is god go ahead but he never says I am god. You have to read it into the scriptures. If it was so clear and cut of jesus saying he is God you and I would not be having this discussion right now.
5. This is absurd. This whole God man doctrine is what makes people turned off by christianity. You are saying god became a man but was still God lol. You can't be a man and still be God. That sounds like some kind of greek mythology.
6.The rule he is breaking is the rules of his nature. His nature of being just. There is nothing just about stepping in himself and saving humanity. If a man handed over the power of the world to satan then it takes a man to take it back. Not a God man. Just listen to yourself. God man??????? thats just absurd. This term is found no where in scripture for a reason.
10. All throughout the old testament it talks about the redeemer being a man. Never a god man. Why do you think a god man is the requirement to be the redeemer of man? That is something man made up.

God becoming a baby then studying the old testament and going through this whole human ordeal and suffering makes jesus a fraud. If jesus was God he couldn't be tempted he couldn't suffer. Yet you just will say he has 2 natures a divine nature and a human nature. That just flips on and off like a light switch at random? Because if he could control it then why would he ever choose the human nature ever? Jesus even said there are things he doesn't know that only the father knows. Why would god in the form of jesus say that?

The trinity is a very important topic and there are way less important things plainly stated in the bible that if you really think God wants us to go on some wild goose chase and make all these convoluted twists and turns of scripture to arrive at this god man theory you have then i'm at a loss for words. Thats not the god jesus spoke of. Or the one found in the bible.

My question for you is why did god Hide the trinity from the jews and from the church? Why didn't paul reveal it? Why didn't jesus reveal it? Why do you have to use verses like john 1:1 and mistranslate and misinterpret it to fit your doctrine? John 1:1 says in the beginning. The beginning of genesis 1? Or the beginning of the new creation? Look at john 20:30 and 31 to find out why john wrote the book.

Jhn 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
Jhn 20:31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The whole book is written so you may know he is the son of God. Not a God man. You have a deeply held belief and have done a lot of reading to justify your position but you have read the wrong books and have come to the wrong conclusion. The orthodox position is incorrect when it comes to this whole god man trinity issue.

I will state this one last time. The logos is the word God uses to represent his purpose for the new creation. This was fulfilled through Jesus Christ.

The word can not be with God and be God likewise the bible says jesus is the image of God. You can not be the image of an object and be the object itself.

You have taken the trinity on faith in the parts that you dont understand, what I am telling you is open your eyes and read a book from the other perspective if you so dare. Just trusting the establishment isn't wise.

i'mlikeokwaitwhat,

1. I can answer your rebuttal but why don't we get to the heart of the matter. Why don't you state 10 reasons that one member in the Godhead is more logical than 3 members in the Godhead, then state the reason why even though some statements will probably be self explanatory and last state your motive because it is important to know what a person believes it, why he believes it and what makes him believe it and how he arrives at the answer and give examples or some kind of substance and logic according to the scriptures. This may save time and more clarify positions, etc. Thanks Jerry Kelso

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

i'mlikeokwaitwhat,

1. I can answer your rebuttal but why don't we get to the heart of the matter. Why don't you state 10 reasons that one member in the Godhead is more logical than 3 members in the Godhead, then state the reason why even though some statements will probably be self explanatory and last state your motive because it is important to know what a person believes it, why he believes it and what makes him believe it and how he arrives at the answer and give examples or some kind of substance and logic according to the scriptures. This may save time and more clarify positions, etc. Thanks Jerry Kelso

1 is more logical because it is what is taught in the bible. There is one God and you may not have any other gods before me is what it says in the bible. Why would God say this if he was hiding the truine God all this time? It is just the whole incarnation thing that makes no sense at all. God became a baby? wat? Just an absurd creation of mans imagination. I don't know why you think I have or need a motive. I'm here just to discuss important topics and perhaps bring forth new ideas or at least expose any flaws in the current system of theology we have. I believe the trinity is false because it makes no sense and is not in the bible and you can just tell its man made. Men to overcomplicate things. I feel bad for all the people who spent the time to read all these books on the trinity and try to understand something not in the bible and then base peoples salvation on whether or not they believe in it even though that is definitely not in the bible. No where in the bible does it say believe in the trinity and ye shall be saved.

 

[jerry kelso]

1 is more logical because it is what is taught in the bible. There is one God and you may not have any other gods before me is what it says in the bible. Why would God say this if he was hiding the truine God all this time? It is just the whole incarnation thing that makes no sense at all. God became a baby? wat? Just an absurd creation of mans imagination. I don't know why you think I have or need a motive. I'm here just to discuss important topics and perhaps bring forth new ideas or at least expose any flaws in the current system of theology we have. I believe the trinity is false because it makes no sense and is not in the bible and you can just tell its man made. Men to overcomplicate things. I feel bad for all the people who spent the time to read all these books on the trinity and try to understand something not in the bible and then base peoples salvation on whether or not they believe in it even though that is definitely not in the bible. No where in the bible does it say believe in the trinity and ye shall be saved.

i'malllikeokwaitwhat,

1. Taught in the bible? That is a reason but your opinion.

2. Thou shall have no other Gods before me is what the Bible says and it was said to show the one true God which is deity of the 3 in 1 because heathens had all different kinds of Gods that had no unity to begin with. God means deity, it doesn't mean one. However, there is only one deity that is in perfect harmony concerning all of life from beginning to end. So there is no scripture that says there is only one deity in the Godhead.

3. He is not hiding the triune God; Hebrews has God the Father calling the Son God. In the old testament it shows three in the Godhead and more than one. Genesis 1:26 etc. You are the one that don't want to believe in the scripture.

4. The whole incarnation and baby scenario you think is so absurd is your opinion and you have no scripture to prove it. The bible said Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.
You think it is man's imagination and the problem is that you forget God is supernatural and his ways are not our ways according to the scripture. You are trying to put God in a box called humanism which makes him limited.

5. Everyone has a motive or a reason of some kind for what they say. One, your motive is trying to disprove the trinity and that is obvious and a given whether out of a good spirit or demeaning or whatever the case may be. The second thing is I don't know you anymore than you know me. You seem very upset and condescending because someone doesn't hold your same view. I am not mad otherwise I would not still try to communicate with you unless I just wanted to argue the point to be arguing or I just wanted to be right and that is not the case.
If it makes sense to you because it sounds logical or whatever that is your prerogative.
I have no problem with you pointing out new or different things to point out that you think are significant or to point out that you think another's pov is flawed. Systems of theologies can go awry but rightly dividing the word is the objective and you have to prove it by that and not just expounding your opinion of what think the bible says or doesn't say in a statement.

6. You say you don't believe in the trinity because it is false, is not in the bible, and you can just tell it is man made is all opinion and conjecture and there is no scripture to back it up.

7. Men do try to overcomplicate things but it doesn't mean that to achieve the interpretation of the scripture on every subject is not always simple.

8. Unless you can back up what you say by scripture you don't need to feel sorry. Do you read books opposite of what the trinity says? Maybe or maybe not. Trying to understand something that is not in the bible is your opinion and it is conjecture. All three of the God head are called God so you can't just simply dismiss it by a plain statement of disagreement.

9. A plain statement can be made and misconstrued on certain points of the subject if the context is not understood.

10. There is not scripture that says believe in the trinity and you shall be saved. There is also no scripture that says believe on the name of God the father and thou shalt be saved either. It says there is only one name whereby one can be saved and that is the name of Jesus which is God the Father's Son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Understand that scripture???????????????????????? Good!

11. You seem to think that a plain statement of fact such as there is no God beside thee overtakes the scriptures that show there are three that are all called God. This is why you need to understand about biblical hermeneutics not to mention the kenosis of Christ.

12. So you can disagree all you want and repeat your opinion and conjecture but that won't make it so. You are welcome to give an adequate scriptural basis across the board on the subject. The whole perception of your statements of not making sense etc. gives the impression of your opinion and your conjecture and what your amount of knowledge that you have that appears limited on the subject overrides biblical hermeneutics.

13. You are welcome to rethink your position and bolster your defense a little bit better scripturally and the understanding of the scriptures for your position to be thought credible. Jerry kelso

 

[Hoghead1]

i'malllikeokwaitwhat,

1. Taught in the bible? That is a reason but your opinion.

2. Thou shall have no other Gods before me is what the Bible says and it was said to show the one true God which is deity of the 3 in 1 because heathens had all different kinds of Gods that had no unity to begin with. God means deity, it doesn't mean one. However, there is only one deity that is in perfect harmony concerning all of life from beginning to end. So there is no scripture that says there is only one deity in the Godhead.

3. He is not hiding the triune God; Hebrews has God the Father calling the Son God. In the old testament it shows three in the Godhead and more than one. Genesis 1:26 etc. You are the one that don't want to believe in the scripture.

4. The whole incarnation and baby scenario you think is so absurd is your opinion and you have no scripture to prove it. The bible said Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.
You think it is man's imagination and the problem is that you forget God is supernatural and his ways are not our ways according to the scripture. You are trying to put God in a box called humanism which makes him limited.

5. Everyone has a motive or a reason of some kind for what they say. One, your motive is trying to disprove the trinity and that is obvious and a given whether out of a good spirit or demeaning or whatever the case may be. The second thing is I don't know you anymore than you know me. You seem very upset and condescending because someone doesn't hold your same view. I am not mad otherwise I would not still try to communicate with you unless I just wanted to argue the point to be arguing or I just wanted to be right and that is not the case.
If it makes sense to you because it sounds logical or whatever that is your prerogative.
I have no problem with you pointing out new or different things to point out that you think are significant or to point out that you think another's pov is flawed. Systems of theologies can go awry but rightly dividing the word is the objective and you have to prove it by that and not just expounding your opinion of what think the bible says or doesn't say in a statement.

6. You say you don't believe in the trinity because it is false, is not in the bible, and you can just tell it is man made is all opinion and conjecture and there is no scripture to back it up.

7. Men do try to overcomplicate things but it doesn't mean that to achieve the interpretation of the scripture on every subject is not always simple.

8. Unless you can back up what you say by scripture you don't need to feel sorry. Do you read books opposite of what the trinity says? Maybe or maybe not. Trying to understand something that is not in the bible is your opinion and it is conjecture. All three of the God head are called God so you can't just simply dismiss it by a plain statement of disagreement.

9. A plain statement can be made and misconstrued on certain points of the subject if the context is not understood.

10. There is not scripture that says believe in the trinity and you shall be saved. There is also no scripture that says believe on the name of God the father and thou shalt be saved either. It says there is only one name whereby one can be saved and that is the name of Jesus which is God the Father's Son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Understand that scripture???????????????????????? Good!

11. You seem to think that a plain statement of fact such as there is no God beside thee overtakes the scriptures that show there are three that are all called God. This is why you need to understand about biblical hermeneutics not to mention the kenosis of Christ.

12. So you can disagree all you want and repeat your opinion and conjecture but that won't make it so. You are welcome to give an adequate scriptural basis across the board on the subject. The whole perception of your statements of not making sense etc. gives the impression of your opinion and your conjecture and what your amount of knowledge that you have that appears limited on the subject overrides biblical hermeneutics.

13. You are welcome to rethink your position and bolster your defense a little bit better scripturally and the understanding of the scriptures for your position to be thought credible. Jerry kelso

Well, I wouldn't be so sure abut the Genesis reference. I think it shows a residual of polytheism, which the Israelites were prone to fall into. Gen. implies a plurality of egos. That is not the Trinity. The Trinity claims there is but one God. Thinking of God as three separate, unique personalities is simply tritheism. which is unbiblical.