Why The Trinity is a False Teaching - Summarized Doctrinal Reasons

[civilwarbuff]

As will all of us....you included.....

 

[redleghunter]

Who's spirit be delivered in the day of the Lord? The spirit of the ones delivering him up to Satan. Hence why the passage goes on to say that a little leaven leavens the whole bread. The leaven, who was this person that sinned, is removed, or rather killed by Satan, for the sake of the bread, meaning the assembly, so that the spirit of those in the assembly might be spared, not the spirit of the man being delivered up to Satan

Yet Galatians 6:1 and James 5:19-20 instruct the church to restore repentant brothers.

 

[cgaviria]

As will all of us....you included.....

Those who are elect will not shake, they will find his coming to be cause for joy, as salvation has come.

 

[cgaviria]

Yet Galatians 6:1 and James 5:19-20 instruct the church to restore repentant brothers.

Indeed, if he commits a minial sin while being a babe in Christ. If, however, this brother is committing sins like adultery, homosexuality, murder, or any sins punishable by death, he ought to be delivered over to Satan for his own destruction.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Those who are elect will not shake, they will find his coming to be cause for joy, as salvation has come.

Mat 9:10 While he was having dinner at Matthew's home, many tax collectors and sinners arrived and began eating with Jesus and his disciples.
Mat 9:11 The Pharisees saw this and asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?"
Mat 9:12 When Jesus heard that, he said, "Healthy people don't need a physician, but sick people do.
Mat 9:13 Go and learn what this means: 'I want mercy and not sacrifice,' because I did not come to call righteous people, but sinners."
Mat 9:14 Then John's disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but your disciples don't fast?"
Mat 9:15 Jesus asked them, "The wedding guests can't mourn as long as the groom is with them, can they? But the time will come when the groom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast."
Mat 9:16 "No one patches an old garment with a piece of unshrunk cloth, because the patch pulls away from the garment, and a worse tear results.
Mat 9:17 Nor do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will spill out, and the skins will be ruined. Instead, they pour new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved."
1Co 2:14 A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated.

 

[redleghunter]

Sara called Abraham lord, and Peter refers to this in...

1 Peter 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord [G2962]. Compare this to Jesus being called lord - G2962.

What's your point? Kyrios has many applications in the NT and LXX. One size does not fit all in Greek. That is why context is important when applying exegesis.

 

[cgaviria]

Mat 9:10 While he was having dinner at Matthew's home, many tax collectors and sinners arrived and began eating with Jesus and his disciples.
Mat 9:11 The Pharisees saw this and asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?"
Mat 9:12 When Jesus heard that, he said, "Healthy people don't need a physician, but sick people do.
Mat 9:13 Go and learn what this means: 'I want mercy and not sacrifice,' because I did not come to call righteous people, but sinners."
Mat 9:14 Then John's disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but your disciples don't fast?"
Mat 9:15 Jesus asked them, "The wedding guests can't mourn as long as the groom is with them, can they? But the time will come when the groom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast."
Mat 9:16 "No one patches an old garment with a piece of unshrunk cloth, because the patch pulls away from the garment, and a worse tear results.
Mat 9:17 Nor do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will spill out, and the skins will be ruined. Instead, they pour new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved."
1Co 2:14 A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated.

This Matthew verse that doesn't correlate with your statement that the elect will shake at the coming of Christ. It's like saying "the Lord will descend on the clouds", and then quoting a verse about an angel making a donkey talk. Doesn't correlate.

 

[redleghunter]

Read this,

One of the major deceptions present in this time is that you can continue sinning and that somehow God will forgive you each time. I hear it time and time again, we are fallen, that's why we sin, and there is grace for that. While there is indeed favor, this is not a license to sin. First and foremost, before jumping into the ability to stop sinning, I must first discuss what the power of the spirit really does. Throughout scripture we see evidence that receiving the spirit is not just some sort of figurative event that occurs, as most perceive it to be, it happens with real physical manifestations and signs of having received it. In one occurence we see written,

And spirit of the LORD shall spring upon you, and you shall prophesy with them, and you shall turn into another man. (1 Samuel 10:6 [ABP])

This scripture was talking about Saul. Notice how the scripture says, and "you shall turn into another man". It is talking about an inward mental change, a literal change and rewiring of his mind to become someone else. How did this happen? As a consequence of the spirit springing upon him. The mental change is literally a possession of the mind, but not by an evil force, but by the spirit of God. And what also happened? He began prophesying, and this was an outward sign. It was so evident what had just happened that look further at what is written,


In a more modern way of translating, they were practically saying, "what happened here, is Saul, the son of Kish, now a prophet?". They were in shock.

In further reading, we have a prophecy in Ezekiel stating how God would cause his people to follow him and keep his commandments,


The first thing to note here is God putting a new heart in you. Heart is synonymous with the mind, but more specifically where the desires are. We see another usage here of the word "heart",


The heart is also where desires and intentions lie, as is the usage in many other passages. So what does he also do? He puts in a new spirit in you. And what else? A new heart, meaning, a new mind and new desires. This prophecy is also indicating that it will be dispensed differently than it was before, yet even in the way it was dispensed before, we saw indications of how powerful it was to change the mind of a person. What will this new spirit cause a man to do? It will cause him to "go by my ordinances and you shall keep my judgments, and you shall observe them." Meaning you will obey God. Why is it different now than before? Because of the blood of Jesus Christ has now been shed, and so now this new spirit operates in the power of that blood of Jesus Christ, causing you to change have a different mind and also desires, whereas before it didn't to those that had holy spirit and still sinned, because the blood of the true lamb of God hadn't been shed yet, and the blood of animals was never able to cause a man to stop sinning, yet was only able to atone for sins. This prophecy is now fulfilled in these days by the outpouring of the holy spirit as a result of the shedding of the blood of the true lamb of God. The new spirit that is given now imparts the ability to sin no more. Why? Because the blood of Jesus has now been poured. His blood, which is higher than the blood of animals, is indeed able to cause a man to stop sinning through the power of holy spirit, whereas before, the blood of animals was never able to change the heart (mind and desires), as it is written,


This is why it is a new spirit, since it now causes you to change your mind and desires, and how it coincides with God saying, "I will give you a new heart of flesh". In this passage we also read, "I will remove the stone heart", what exactly does this mean? It means it will remove your old fleshly mind which has evil desires (This is where Paul talks about the fleshly nature), which is also the root of sin, and give you a new heart, that desires to obey God and causes you to keep his commandments and not sin anymore. Receiving holy spirit is in fact so powerful that it causes a man to now stop sinning and change removes evil desires, and thus this is why we read,


Why is he also not able to sin anymore? Because his desires have been changed by being possessed by God. This is one scripture that is ignored or twisted by many, because they don't understand how it is possible to stop sinning. They think they have received holy spirit figuratively, and while they are still aware of their own sinful desires, they cant comprehend how one can stop sinning while having this "figurative" spirit. It is not just a figurative thing, it is literal, and it comes with outward manifestations of it. It is only possible by receiving this Spirit that you can stop sinning, that possesses you and causes you to follow after God, and changes your inner desires. Being born of God is receiving this Spirit. Going further, Paul also says that it is impossible for us to stop sinning, which is true because we are still in our fallen nature if we don't receive this holy spirit, which is why it is necessary to receive holy spirit, so that through its power we may then finally be able to stop sinning, but not by our own power, but by the power of the spirit. Its not anything in our own nature, because our minds are fleshly and our desires are evil, but because of God putting his spirit in you and causing you to follow after him that you are then able to walk perfectly before him. If you could indeed keep sinning while having holy spirit, you would be breaking scripture that says that you cannot sin when being born of God. So therefore, anyone that still sins does not truly have the spirit of God. Jesus even says,


How can anyone be perfect and why would Jesus demand such a seemingly impossible thing? It's because perfection, that is, inward perfection, is imparted by holy spirit, which then makes inner perfection possible. Jesus also told the woman after he forgave her sins,


In Romans Paul goes on to eloquently explain this fallen nature that is in us before having the Spirit,


We are born in sin even before we commit any sins, this is our fallen nature, that nature of our minds, and nothing that is within us is able to follow after God. As it is even written,


Notice how they were called sinners even from the womb, before they were even able to commit sins. Its imputed on us already before birth. Paul even says,


Even in 1 John we read,


This doesn't mean that we continue to sin, because in the verses before, it said no one that is born of God sins. What it means is that we have all sinned in the past. Only Jesus Christ did not sin, ever. So what does Paul go on to say after explaining this very evil nature that has befallen all of man, including himself, which is why he calls himself "wretched man"? He says,


Did you catch that? The ones in Christ Jesus, "not walking according to the flesh, but according to the spirit", or more clearly explained, not walking according to the flesh anymore, but now presently walking according to the spirit. What this really means is this, at one point I did walk in the flesh, but now I walk in the Spirit. How? By having the spirit. You can't both walk in the flesh and in the Spirit at the same time. You can only walk in one or the other. And also meaning, before I had the fleshly nature, but now that I have the spirit, I have been freed from the fleshly nature. Look what Paul then says, "the law of the spirit of the life in Christ Jesus freed me". Paul is in fact affirming that he has now been freed from sin and from his very fleshly nature. Because of the spirit. He affirms this again,


He is in fact affirming that he is not walking after the flesh anymore, not now presently only walking after the spirit. Again, Paul makes another affirmation about this,


Again, you are not in the flesh anymore, but now in spirit, and what does he say after? If indeed the spirit of God lives in you. You can only be set free by your sinful nature and desires and not walk in the flesh anymore only if you have the spirit of God in you. How much more clear can Paul be? Yet many still misunderstand out of ignorance and justify their own continuance of committing sins. They falsely think you can walk in the flesh and in the spirit at the same time. Not according to Paul. Paul further says,


Whoever has received the spirit of God is a son of God, being born of God, who can no longer sin. This coincides with other previous scriptures. Do we have other scriptures indicating that a person can stop sinning? Yes, look at this prophecy in Daniel concerning Jesus,


This scripture is often misinterpreted and many believe the false teaching of a "7 year tribulation" as the final week in this prophecy because they don't understand how sin could've been "finished off" knowing themselves that they still continue sinning. Well, sin is "finished off" because of the power the holy spirit gives to cause a person to stop sinning. This prophecy was already fulfilled after the death of Jesus Christ, ending the 70 weeks prophecy. It didn't just stop, then resume in the future over 2,000 years later as many falsely believe. The 70 weeks were sequential years and it was completed with the death of Jesus Christ and the Pentecost that brought in the Holy Spirit giving the inner perfection and finishing off of sins. Even in Hebrews we have another affirmations concerning perfection and those that are sanctified by holy spirit,


So what about grace, or rather, favor? I prefer the use of the word favor because it more accurately conveys in English what is meant by the word grace, in that he chooses to show mercy and compassion, while we don't deserve it, and he doesn't really have to do it, he just merely shows it because he chooses to show his kindness. God does whatever he pleases. This is his creation and his work, and we are creatures made by him, created as sinners. He does whatever he wants with us. The favor of God is bestowed upon us in that while being in our fallen nature not deserving his mercy, he still chose to be merciful with us, forgive our previous sin, and bestow upon us the gift of his spirit, to be sons of the living God empowered to stop sinning because of his spirit. This is where the favor of God demonstrated. As Paul even says,


And he also says,


Therefore, it is God who shows the mercy, to whomever he pleases. It is nothing that we have done, it is merely his favor, and in fact, his choosing, that you anyone receives the gift of holy spirit.

No one here so far argues we are new creatures when God in His Grace regenerates our souls.

At issue is your claim of being sinless. Yes we can say such as the righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed to us by Grace through faith.

Yet we still have these bodies of fallen flesh which wars against the New creature. We sometimes lose some more than others but none of us are perfected.

If your point is we can wilfully continue to sin and say "hey I'm good" we are told to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith.

If we stumble we are to lift each other up and repent. If we wallow in our sin after being confronted (Matthew 18) we are to be put out.


If we are repentant we are to be restored.

I understand you may see such as a crutch to be used to keep on sinning but it is not. It's called Grace.

 

[redleghunter]

Theres gotta be some linguists here.....but I think if you are going to "quote" Sara you have to do it in Hebrew not Greek.

What was the original point.

 

[redleghunter]

God can make anyone he pleases into an apostle, it was not just restricted to the twelve, as even Paul was not one of the original twelve. I am not an apostle, I am merely a student of scripture, a believer in Jesus Christ. However, I have been given wisdom to understand these passages correctly. And thus this wisdom, is what I am speaking, in hopes that others may also come to sound doctrine, and not believe in all these terrible false doctrines that exist in the world today, causing people to err and lose their salvation.

There were some clear qualifications for an apostle. The first is noted in Acts 1. If one walked with Christ on earth or had direct interaction with the Risen Christ, they met the first criteria. No one today can make a claim to the above.

Why do you think your interpretations of the Bible are true and others in error? Have you spoke to angels giving you special insight or were discipled by someone claiming greater insight?

I believe you truly nail down Christ calls us to purity and to follow Him means do what He says.

I believe you err we do so perfectly before our bodies are made perfect and glorified.

The only work which we can uplift as truly righteous and Holy is the Work of Christ. To Him be all glory and majesty.

 

[redleghunter]

You can't walk in both the flesh and the spirit at the same time. Either you walk in one, or the other, but not one moment the flesh, then another moment the spirit, and vice verse. Paul also affirms this. The teaching that you can still sin and walk in the spirit is a false doctrine.

Yet you said we still do sin.

The reality is we have this wonderful new creation, yet still in our fallen shells of flesh. Yes we have died with Christ in baptism to the flesh to put on our new man in Christ. Yet we are not disembodied. We are justified, being sanctified but not yet glorified. Romans 8 points out the relationships and standings.

To say we do not walk after the flesh is correct. That is our compass heading on a new ship.

Do you see being perfected attainable in this mortal life?

 

[redleghunter]

Indeed, if he commits a minial sin while being a babe in Christ. If, however, this brother is committing sins like adultery, homosexuality, murder, or any sins punishable by death, he ought to be delivered over to Satan for his own destruction.

Again no argument on the call to purity.

What would you consider a "minial" sin? Are you also applying Jesus' standard of sins in the mind and heart?

Based on the above why weren't David and Bathsheba stoned to death? Why did God spare them?

 

[redleghunter]

Did you read that longer post I gave you to read?

Yes I did. My response was to get clarification.

 

[redleghunter]

This isn't so, because even in that same verse it says, "for the destruction of the flesh", meaning so that he may be killed, so that "the spirit", not "his spirit" of those who delivered him may be saved. This is just one more scripture twisted and skewed by ignorant people. Sigh.

What makes you think everyone else got it wrong and you are right?

Do you have the depth of expository of a John Gill who knew the native languages used in the OT and NT?

Here's an example of proper exegesis:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/1-corinthians-5-5.html

 

[Wgw]

Theres gotta be some linguists here.....but I think if you are going to "quote" Sara you have to do it in Hebrew not Greek.

Unless one has a copy of Origen's Hexapla this is unlikely to be of much help either.

 

[Goatee]

You have to take this further in regards to minial sins, which are "sins not leading to death", one can live perfect and not even commit menial sins, when one is baptized in holy spirit. I am relieved that you are closer to the truth than this other person on here who was resisting me on even the sin of adultery, as if you could commit adultery and still be saved. Absolutely appalling, and it infuriates me that someone would say that, which could cause other babes in the faith to be lead astray. People who say such things truly deserve death.

Thats me then! Doomed to hell.

Yes, i have committed adultery and have said so on these forums. Am i proud of that? No! Have i failed God and my wife? Yes, massively! Did i repent? Yes! Did i sin again? Yes! Unfortunately. As my priest told my, i am weak. But, i have not committed that sin again! I confessed, sought absolution and with deepest sorrow in my heart and soul have begged God to guide me in my life.

It must be so easy for you being pure and white and sinless. I am but a fool and a poo of society. I fell MASSIVELY before God and my family. Maybe i will go straight to hell. You know, i accept that. I accept the punishment from God because i am willing to suffer for eternity for what i have done. For betraying God and my wife.

I hope and pray every day that i have turned the corner and left that sin behind. Believe me, i have no intention of sinning that massive sin again!! God knows this, my family knows this.

Jesus said he came to save sinners. I very much pray that if it his will, i hope he will indeed save my soul. What i have been through, and going through is a hard cross to carry, let alone the pain i have caused my family.

Going on what you say though, there is no forgiveness. I beg to disagree. God is full of Mercy. Full of Love. Full of compassion. He wants us to go to his open arms and repent. Just like the prodigal son.

I very much hope that you continue in your sinless ways my friend. I wish i had never committed adultery but i cannot turn the clock back. All i can do is pray and believe in the words of Jesus Christ.

 

[7xlightray]

Theres gotta be some linguists here.....but I think if you are going to "quote" Sara you have to do it in Hebrew not Greek.

Take that up with Peter the next time you see him, ...but I assume Peter knows what he is talking about.

Peter said, Sara called Abraham lord [G2962].
Which is the same lord [G2962] used of Christ.

Your really having a hard time with this. Even if you quote Sara in Hebrew [H113 - lord] it's the same Hebrew word [H113 – lord] use for referring to God, ...so Peter got it right. The point is, it does not matter how you look at it, "lord" does not mean God, in Hebrew, nor Greek. It can refer to God, or it could refer to man.

 

[redleghunter]

Going on what you say though, there is no forgiveness. I beg to disagree. God is full of Mercy. Full of Love. Full of compassion. He wants us to go to his open arms and repent. Just like the prodigal son.

Indeed.

 

[Strong in Him]

I know I'm going to regret this, but anyway.

No one is sinless, except Jesus Christ.

Absolutely correct.

However, when one is born of God, one is perfected, and thus not able to sin any longer, as it is impossible.

No, that's incorrect.

When someone repents, receives Jesus, is born again and becomes a Christian, they receive eternal life, John 3:16, 36; John 6:40. They are new creations and have new life, 2 Corinthians 5:17. At that point, the devil gets mad, because they now belong to God, and will do everything possible to try to get them to turn away - including whispers like, "you've messed up; God can't love you now, you might as well give up." This is a lie from the father of all lies.
John says in his first epistle that if we confess our sins he (God) is faithful and just and will forgive us, 1 John 1:9. In chapter 2 he said that, although he was writing so that they would not sin, if they did, they could be sure that they had someone who could intercede for them, 1 John 2:1.
Jesus taught us to pray, "forgive us our trespasses". Scripture says that when we sin, we need to confess it and not try to cover it up, and repent, then God will forgive us and make us clean.

If a Christian says that they know the love and grace of God and love him too, but continually and deliberately sin against him, purposely doing those things they know will hurt him and refusing to repent - then it is reasonable to question their love for God, their understanding of salvation and walking in the light. But a Christian who sins, repents and is cleansed, is forgiven - not condemned.

It IS possible for us to sin after we become Christians; 1) because you have just admitted that no one is perfect, 2) because we are still human, living in a fallen world and are still being sanctified and 3) because the devil tries hard to tempt us, make us sin and turn away from God. His biggest lie is then, "why not give up; you've just blown it."
But the only way we can't be forgiven, is if we don't confess. If we don't believe we have done anything wrong, try to keep it from God or justify it.

If everyone who became a Christian was made perfect, there'd be a lot of perfect people around - some of whom could then find other perfect people, marry them and have perfect children. There'd be perfect churches too - whole areas of the world would contain people who were absolutely perfect - so where are they?

 

[redleghunter]

Take that up with Peter the next time you see him, ...but I assume Peter knows what he is talking about.

Peter said, Sara called Abraham lord [G2962].
Which is the same lord [G2962] used of Christ.

Your really having a hard time with this. Even if you quote Sara in Hebrew [H113 - lord] it's the same Hebrew word [H113 – lord] use for referring to God, ...so Peter got it right. The point is, it does not matter how you look at it, "lord" does not mean God, in Hebrew, nor Greek. It can refer to God, or it could refer to man.

Show me an example of H113 in TaNaKh referring to God. We can take it from there. I hope you are not equating H113 with H3068.