Why The Trinity is a False Teaching - Summarized Doctrinal Reasons

[7xlightray]

Had I looked back to part one, I would not have made that comment....my bad.
You have to go back to the original Hebrew to see what Abraham means....
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
אַבְרָהָם ʼAbrâhâm, ab-raw-hawm'; contracted from H1 and an unused root (probably meaning to be populous); father of a multitude; Abraham, the later name of Abram:—Abraham.

Easy to make that kind of mistake.

I was referring to Sara calling him lord.

1 Peter 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord.
Genesis 18:12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?​

 

[cgaviria]

Before I give the answer to this, you tell me what you think it means....I believe because of 1 Cor 2:14 you don't have a clue but here is your chance to prove me wrong.....have at it.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. (1 Corinthians 2:14-15 [KJV])

A natural man is anyone who is not spiritual. A spiritual man understands the word of God and has wisdom concerning the things of God, because the wisdom of God comes forth from the spirit of God, so anyone who is spiritual will understand this wisdom. And anyone who is spiritual, is also able to judge all things, yet he himself cannot be judged by anyone because he has been set free from sin by the spirit of God, therefore no one is able to judge him, as there is nothing to judge anymore. Yet obviously if you are still committing adultery, you have neither known him or seen God, and are thus not a spiritual man,

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (1 John 3:6 [KJV])

And if you are still sinning, you will indeed be judged.

 

[redleghunter]

It's in the scriptures, and they taught these things. You people just ignore and twist those scriptures to justify your own wickedness. And think that by mere prayers of forgiveness that you will somehow be forgiven while you are still breaking the commandments of God.

Sir I don't think you addressed the valid questions posed.

You claimed you are now sinless. How do you know you have not sinned and just don't know it.

Can you point to your exegesis of baptism of the Holy Spirit equals sinless in the fallen flesh?

Have you received fully the redemption of your body? You no longer eagerly await but have arrived at the glorification of your body?

Thanks

 

[civilwarbuff]

Easy to make that kind of mistake.

I was referring to Sara calling him lord.

1 Peter 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord.
Genesis 18:12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?​

lord H113
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
אָדוֹן ʼâdôwn, aw-done'; or (shortened) אָדֹן ʼâdôn; from an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine):—lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with 'Adoni-'.

If you don't have Strong's download esword, you can choose different bibles & Srtong, commentaries, etc. Also hook up with Blue Letter Bible which is where the above comes from....helps a lot.

 

[civilwarbuff]

A natural man is anyone who is not spiritual. A spiritual man understands the word of God and has wisdom concerning the things of God, because the wisdom of God comes forth from the spirit of God, so anyone who is spiritual will understand this wisdom. And anyone who is spiritual, is also able to judge all things, yet he himself cannot be judged by anyone because he has been set free from sin by the spirit of God, therefore no one is able to judge him, as there is nothing to judge anymore. Yet obviously if you are still committing adultery, you have neither known him or seen God, and are thus not a spiritual man,


And if you are still sinning, you will indeed be judged.

You did not answer the question (not surprising) .....What does this

"deliver such a one over to Satan".

mean? It is from your quote....I don't believe you have a clue to what it means.....but prove me wrong....no more tap-dancing.

 

[cgaviria]

You did not answer the question (not surprising) .....What does this
mean? It is from your quote....I don't believe you have a clue to what it means.....but prove me wrong....no more tap-dancing.

It means pray that he may be killed by Satan, that the spirit of those who delivered him may be spared, as a little bit of leaven leavens the entire bread, meaning if you allow such a person to co-exist in the assembly of God, he will also cause the entire assembly to also lose their salvation. This is also evident in the Law of Moses, that Israelite brother who is found sinning, ought to be stoned to death, as to not incur the anger of God upon the entire congregation. Similar concept here, putting away sinful brothers and delivering them to Satan so that they can be destroyed by him. Also, removing the leaven that the entire bread may not be leavened, if you read on further in that passage. Sin in the assembly is a very serious matter.

 

[redleghunter]

You have to take this further in regards to minial sins, which are "sins not leading to death", one can live perfect and not even commit menial sins, when one is baptized in holy spirit. I am relieved that you are closer to the truth than this other person on here who was resisting me on even the sin of adultery, as if you could commit adultery and still be saved. Absolutely appalling, and it infuriates me that someone would say that, which could cause other babes in the faith to be lead astray. People who say such things truly deserve death.

I am sure the mere mental lust for another woman is sin. In Matthew chapter 5 Jesus shows the holiness of God's Law. Where the Jews believed a physical sin must occur, Jesus told us the very thought betrays us.

Are you perfect as the Father in Heaven is Perfect? I'll answer that no you are not, I am not, nor was Mother Theresa. Only Jesus Christ lived that perfect sinless life on earth.

I know Jesus Christ, He is my Savior and Lord, you sir are no Jesus.

Claiming to be sinless is claiming that your body has been glorified as Christ is glorified.

Sorry your doctrine is not Biblical and in error.

 

[redleghunter]

Believers have the right to deliver other believers to Satan for committing sins of death in an assembly of God. Have you not read Paul's instruction, "deliver such a one over to Satan". Any believer that teaches that a believer can still sin and still be right with God deserves to be destroyed because he is causing others to stumble and thus also lose their salvation over such destructive lies.

Paul was an apostle commissioned directly by Jesus Christ.

Are you claiming apostolic authority? And if so, did you meet Christ face to face like the apostles of the NT?

 

[redleghunter]

God's children are not of this world, they have been born from above. We have died to the world and our lives are hid in Christ. Colossians 3.

Are you also claiming you are sinless?

 

[cgaviria]

Paul was an apostle commissioned directly by Jesus Christ.

Are you claiming apostolic authority? And if so, did you meet Christ face to face like the apostles of the NT?

It is not just apostolic authority, hence why even Paul was telling the churches for them to deliver such a one to Satan, all in one agreement with Paul, and condemning this sin that was committed, by delivering such a person to Satan so that this person can be killed by Satan. Sin is a very serious issue and will corrupt an entire assembly, and thus any brother that is sinning must be put away as to not cause the entire assembly to be leavened.

 

[cgaviria]

I am sure the mere mental lust for another woman is sin. In Matthew chapter 5 Jesus shows the holiness of God's Law. Where the Jews believed a physical sin must occur, Jesus told us the very thought betrays us.

Are you perfect as the Father in Heaven is Perfect? I'll answer that no you are not, I am not, nor was Mother Theresa. Only Jesus Christ lived that perfect sinless life on earth.

I know Jesus Christ, He is my Savior and Lord, you sir are no Jesus.

Claiming to be sinless is claiming that your body has been glorified as Christ is glorified.

Sorry your doctrine is not Biblical and in error.

There is a difference between being perfected inwardly by the holy spirit, and then being glorified with the new body of the resurrection. One comes first, then the other.

 

[cgaviria]

Are you also claiming you are sinless?

No one is sinless, except Jesus Christ. However, when one is born of God, one is perfected, and thus not able to sin any longer, as it is impossible.

 

[civilwarbuff]

as a little bit of leaven leavens the entire bread, meaning if you allow such a person to co-exist in the assembly of God, he will also cause the entire assembly to also lose their salvation.

You got that part right, but that is the easy part. The rest not so much. This is your big belief:
1Co 5:5 turn this man over to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.
So, how are they going to turn him over to Satan? Convene a witches coven and conjure him up? Have a midnite Satanic Mass? But you ignore the rest of the verse: so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord. But if his body is destroyed by Satan how will his spirit be saved?..Through his repentance. Being turned over to Satan is to remove him from the church. In reality all outside the church belong to Satan. He has removed himself spiritually already, now he has to be removed phsyically so he understands the consequences of what he has done; he is removed from the church. 1Co 5:13 God will judge outsiders. "Expel that wicked man." But his spirit may still be saved....how?....through repentance, grace, forgiveness which is what he and we live under. We don't know if he repents and is allowed back in; that part of the story is not given to us. But the hope is given to us.


1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that sexual immorality exists among you, and of a kind that is not found even among the gentiles. A man is actually living with his father's wife!
1Co 5:2 And you are being arrogant instead of being filled with grief and seeing to it that the man who did this is removed from among you.
1Co 5:3 Even though I am away from you physically, I am with you in spirit. I have already passed judgment on the man who did this, as though I were present with you.
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are gathered together (and I am there in spirit), and the power of our Lord Jesus is there, too,
1Co 5:5 turn this man over to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.
1Co 5:6 Your boasting is not good. You know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough, don't you?
1Co 5:7 Get rid of the old yeast so that you may be a new batch of dough, since you are to be free from yeast. For the Messiah, our Passover, has been sacrificed.
1Co 5:8 So let's keep celebrating the festival, neither with old yeast nor with yeast that is evil and wicked, but with yeast-free bread that is both sincere and true.
1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter to stop associating with people who are sexually immoral—
1Co 5:10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, greedy, robbers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you to stop associating with any so-called brother if he is sexually immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunk, or a robber. You must even stop eating with someone like that.
1Co 5:12 After all, is it my business to judge outsiders? You are to judge those who are in the community, aren't you?
1Co 5:13 God will judge outsiders. "Expel that wicked man."

 

[MerriestHouse]

Are you also claiming you are sinless?

NO!

 

[MerriestHouse]

1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[civilwarbuff]

And John is right.....good quote....

 

[7xlightray]

lord H113
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
אָדוֹן ʼâdôwn, aw-done'; or (shortened) אָדֹן ʼâdôn; from an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine):—lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with 'Adoni-'.

If you don't have Strong's download esword, you can choose different bibles & Srtong, commentaries, etc. Also hook up with Blue Letter Bible which is where the above comes from....helps a lot.

That's the Hebrew word H113, which also could refer to God, or man, that's why it would not be the same G2962. You gave me G2962, compare with 1 Pet 3:6 “lord – G2962” which is used both of Abraham and Jesus.

Yes I have e-sword, Blue Letter Bible, and others.

 

[cgaviria]

You got that part right, but that is the easy part. The rest not so much. This is your big belief:
1Co 5:5 turn this man over to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.
So, how are they going to turn him over to Satan? Convene a witches coven and conjure him up? Have a midnite Satanic Mass? But you ignore the rest of the verse: so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord. But if his body is destroyed by Satan how will his spirit be saved?..Through his repentance. Being turned over to Satan is to remove him from the church. In reality all outside the church belong to Satan. He has removed himself spiritually already, now he has to be removed phsyically so he understands the consequences of what he has done; he is removed from the church. 1Co 5:13 God will judge outsiders. "Expel that wicked man." But his spirit may still be saved....how?....through repentance, grace, forgiveness which is what he and we live under. We don't know if he repents and is allowed back in; that part of the story is not given to us. But the hope is given to us.


1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that sexual immorality exists among you, and of a kind that is not found even among the gentiles. A man is actually living with his father's wife!
1Co 5:2 And you are being arrogant instead of being filled with grief and seeing to it that the man who did this is removed from among you.
1Co 5:3 Even though I am away from you physically, I am with you in spirit. I have already passed judgment on the man who did this, as though I were present with you.
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are gathered together (and I am there in spirit), and the power of our Lord Jesus is there, too,
1Co 5:5 turn this man over to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.
1Co 5:6 Your boasting is not good. You know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough, don't you?
1Co 5:7 Get rid of the old yeast so that you may be a new batch of dough, since you are to be free from yeast. For the Messiah, our Passover, has been sacrificed.
1Co 5:8 So let's keep celebrating the festival, neither with old yeast nor with yeast that is evil and wicked, but with yeast-free bread that is both sincere and true.
1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter to stop associating with people who are sexually immoral—
1Co 5:10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, greedy, robbers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you to stop associating with any so-called brother if he is sexually immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunk, or a robber. You must even stop eating with someone like that.
1Co 5:12 After all, is it my business to judge outsiders? You are to judge those who are in the community, aren't you?
1Co 5:13 God will judge outsiders. "Expel that wicked man."

"his spirit" is a mistranslation, it should read "the spirit", with a definite article, you can see for yourself at the interlinear here, http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/5-5.htm . And here is how the verse should be rendered,

to deliver up such to Satan for ruin of the flesh, that the spirit should be delivered in the day of the Lord Jesus. (I Corinthians 5:5 [ABP])

Who's spirit be delivered in the day of the Lord? The spirit of the ones delivering him up to Satan. Hence why the passage goes on to say that a little leaven leavens the whole bread. The leaven, who was this person that sinned, is removed, or rather killed by Satan, for the sake of the bread, meaning the assembly, so that the spirit of those in the assembly might be spared, not the spirit of the man being delivered up to Satan. Killing someone is not a way to save someone, it is a way to judge someone, as you would stone someone to death for committing a sin of death. And this person is thus killed for the sake of the assembly, so that wrath may not come upon the assembly, which is similar to this passage,

When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear into both of them, right through the Israelite man and into the woman's stomach. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; (Numbers 25:7 [KJV])

We ourselves do not kill, as we are not called to carry out the judgment of the Law and kill sinners as is ordained by the Law of Moses, however, we are instructed to cast out and deliver any believer in an assembly of God that is sinning over to Satan that they may be killed by Satan himself.

 

[redleghunter]

Because I grow weary reasoning with you people daily, and still you believe the same false doctrines, not even just about the trinity, but basic truths about sin. That you can be right with God and still commit adultery? HOW INSANE! You guys believe in a different Jesus that is not the Jesus of the scriptures. This is depressing to me, and to God. And I am not just grieved, I am angered, because these very teachings lead other believers, babies in the faith, little lambs, astray.

I've read these posts too. I don't believe @civilwarbuff is condoning living in sin. I believe the divide here is you champion yourself as sinless while still in your decaying body of flesh. Unless I missed something glorified bodies have not been handed out in this life other than the Risen and Glorified Christ.

Perhaps your denial of the full deity of Jesus Christ leads you to believe you can become like Him before being conformed to His Image. Image that is not exactness as that would make you equal to God.

The apostle John says the following:

1 John 1:

5 And this is the message that we have heard from Him, and announce to you, that God is light, and darkness in Him is not at all;

6 if we may say -- `we have fellowship with Him,' and in the darkness may walk -- we lie, and do not the truth;

7 and if in the light we may walk, as He is in the light -- we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son doth cleanse us from every sin;

8 if we may say -- `we have not sin,' ourselves we lead astray, and the truth is not in us;

9 if we may confess our sins, stedfast He is and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from every unrighteousness;

10 if we may say -- `we have not sinned,' a liar we make Him, and His word is not in us.

 

[Der Alte]

It is not just apostolic authority, hence why even Paul was telling the churches for them to deliver such a one to Satan, all in one agreement with Paul, and condemning this sin that was committed, by delivering such a person to Satan so that this person can be killed by Satan. Sin is a very serious issue and will corrupt an entire assembly, and thus any brother that is sinning must be put away as to not cause the entire assembly to be leavened.

The problem with this view is you are taking 1 Cor 5:1-15. Paul was addressing a single incident in one church not making a universal principal for all Christians, everywhere. All scripture was written for us but not all scripture was written to us. If all scripture was written to us then we should all be out in our backyards building an ark. This passage does not grant apostolic authority to all Christians to deliver anyone to satan for any purpose.

1 Corinthians 5:1-5
(1) It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
(2) And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
(3) For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
(4) In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
(5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.​