Why The Trinity is a False Teaching - Summarized Doctrinal Reasons

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Berean777 said:

Sorry, I thought I did. The Holy Ghost is ANOTHER persona of the one infinite Godbeing, that the Father and the Son sent. (Nicene Creed - Filioque)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (John 14:16)

The 1st Comforter was Jesus in the flesh, another Comforter would be ANOTHER, in his place on Pentecost and onwards. If the Father and the Son are sending him, then the Holy Ghost is the third isn't he?

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i did not say "persona" in my previous post, the word was "person", and from this viewpoint how can you imagine a third person to abide with every saved human for ever so as they to be always like a husband and wife merged into one?!, this would mean some besouled being, appearing to be third in "heaven" after the Father and the Son, would have to be in the heart of every saved human for ever like the jinn in the lamp from the story of aladdin, moreover, there is no talk of such a third person in the book Revelation 21st and 22nd chapters, which are the ones about the everlasting life in the eternal Paradise, but there are God and Lamb, while the Holy Spirit is represented there as a light and a river i.e. again as something impersonal

Rev 21:23-24 "the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it:",

Rev 22:1-2 "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

Blessings

nomadictheist said:

He had a desire not to go to the cross, but He did not have a desire to rebel against God. There is a difference. Thus why He prayed "if it is possible, take this cup from me..."

Did He already know the outcome? Yes. Jesus Himself said that He came from above, while all other men have come from below (the earth).

Let's say this another way.

Desire: Jesus desired food. Desiring food is not wrong.
Jesus did not desire to obtain food in a way that was not pleasing to the Father.
The Devil "tempted Him" to obtain His desire through a means that was not pleasing to the Father.
Jesus resisted. He did not want/desire to obtain food in a way that was not pleasing to the Father.

Desire: Jesus desired to not endure the extreme suffering and anguish of the cross. This is not wrong. Thus He prayed, "if it is possible, take this cup from me."

But the meaning must be taken in full if we are to truly understand Jesus' desires. "If it is possible" clearly doesn't mean if it's possible at all, because God could have abandoned the human race to sin and death.

So Jesus desired to not endure the agony and anguish of the cross, which was not wrong, but He did not desire to abandon the people that He loved to sin and death. And there was no other One who could walk this road.

Jesus was not born with a sin nature. The Bible never says that Jesus was tempted from within - that is your claim.

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Jesus knew, it was written, that he was to be lifted up. If it was written, then it was settled, yet Jesus still ask, if there was another way.

It's not wrong to be tempted! It's wrong when you give in to your desire.

Him desiring not to go to the cross, would not be the will of God, but he did not give in to that temptation, but he was struggling with it. Being tempted like this is not wrong. In the end he chose the will of God, and did not give in to his desire. Your trying to make this more complicated then it is.

If God said to you, “I want you to fast for one month,” to eat would be wrong, but you would be tempted to eat, this is not wrong. To be tempted to eat, and have a desire to eat, is not wrong, if you don't eat.

Berean777 said:

One would certainly be convinced on the surface to what you are saying in regards to the uniqueness of the Son of God. If we cross-correlate this uniqueness with Adam, the man created from the clay of the earth, then we can look towards the scriptures, where Jesus is said to be the ONLY begotten Son of God. Scripture also has the risen Lord saying......

I am the Alpha and the Omega," says Lord God, the One being, and who was, and who is coming, the Almighty. (Rev 1:8)

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And.....

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." (Rev 22:13)

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Now the uniqueness of Christ is that he is the only begotten Son and the first and the last of his kind. This means that the Adam and the Son of God are heaven and earth apart. Adam was unique that he was formed out of the clay of the earth and the epiphany of the Christ breathed into his nostrils to make him a living spirit, in support of John 1:4, where it is written, "In Him was life, and that life was the light of men." So the Christ created Adam and there contrasts the uniqueness of Christ as the Lord from Heaven, compared to the dirt man Adam, made from the dirt of the earth.

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Adam and Eve are part of God's family. We are begotten through the gospel of Jesus Christ. There are many mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and children in the family of God. "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers? Matthew 12:47 "Some one told him, "Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, asking to speak to you." 48 But he replied to the man who told him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother."

Jesus joins the saints in the Lamb's song of praise to the Father in Revelation 15:3. He is the beginning and the end of God's great plan of salvation. Revelation 1:17 He died in Revelation 1:18. This means that he cannot be God since God cannot die. Only the Almighty God is God Himself.

In Revelation 1:8 (one of the verses you quoted) the Father is both the alpha and omega and The Lord God Almighty. The title "The Lord God Almighty" is nowhere given to Jesus. Jesus' creed is that his Father is "The Only True God." and that he himself is the Messiah, that the One God has commissioned. This is important because our relationship to God depends on our knowing the One True God and his Son. He defines this knowledge as "eternal life."

Berean777 said:

23But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.24I told you that you would die in your sins. (John 8:23)

Yes Jesus, I believe you.

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Jesus was addressing the Scribes and the Pharisees in that passage.

"Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." 13 The Pharisees then said to him, "You are bearing witness to yourself; your testimony is not true."

21 Again he said to them, "I go away, and you will seek me and die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come." 22 Then said the Jews, "Will he kill himself, since he says, 'Where I am going, you cannot come'?" 23 He said to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he." 25 They said to him, "Who are you?" Jesus said to them, "Even what I have told you from the beginning. 26 I have much to say about you and much to judge; but he who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from him." 27 They did not understand that he spoke to them of the Father. 28 So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me. 29 And he who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to him."

God's children are not of this world, they have been born from above. We have died to the world and our lives are hid in Christ. Colossians 3.

cgaviria said:

Believers have the right to deliver other believers to Satan for committing sins of death in an assembly of God. Have you not read Paul's instruction, "deliver such a one over to Satan". Any believer that teaches that a believer can still sin and still be right with God deserves to be destroyed because he is causing others to stumble and thus also lose their salvation over such destructive lies.

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1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Joh 8:1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
Joh 8:2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them.
Joh 8:3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst
Joh 8:4 they said to him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery.
Joh 8:5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?"
Joh 8:6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground.
Joh 8:7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."
Joh 8:8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him.
Joh 8:10 Jesus stood up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
Joh 8:11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more."]]

Your "wisdom" does you no good....seek the Holy Spirit....he will lead you to the truth.

civilwarbuff said:

Neither of the 2 above verses where mentioned in your original verse list; moving the goalposts again I see....
Your list of verses are here:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ctrinal-reasons.7928502/page-17#post-69234396

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Sure it was! It was in Part 1 of 2, post #337

What do you mean again?

civilwarbuff said:

I will repeat:


I got no problem with the bible translation; you have a problem with the meaning of the original Greek.....

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Have no problem at all with the meaning of the original Greek, but if we were to use it they way you insist, Abraham would be God. Lord does not mean God, it could be referring to God, but not necessarily.

The Bible itself tells us how we are to understand “lord,” when referring to Jesus.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

7xlightray said:

Sure it was! It was in Part 1 of 2, post #337

What do you mean again?



Have no problem at all with the meaning of the original Greek, but if we were to use it they way you insist, Abraham would be God. Lord does not mean God, it could be referring to God, but not necessarily.

The Bible itself tells us how we are to understand “lord,” when referring to Jesus.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

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Had I looked back to part one, I would not have made that comment....my bad.
You have to go back to the original Hebrew to see what Abraham means....
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
אַבְרָהָם ʼAbrâhâm, ab-raw-hawm'; contracted from H1 and an unused root (probably meaning to be populous); father of a multitude; Abraham, the later name of Abram:—Abraham.

cgaviria said:

Exactly, "sin no more" is what Jesus Christ said. If you are in fact still sinning and committing adultery, that is not "sin no more". You are in fact teaching a lie that you can still sin and be right with God. As I said, people that call themselves brothers and teach these destructive doctrines are walking enemies of God.

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Everything @civilwarbuff has said in his reply is correct though.

cgaviria said:

All sinners are deserving of death, have you not read? "All deserve death". Anyone is only still alive because of the favor of God. However, anyone that spreads lies that you can sin and calls himself a brother surely is deserving of death over one who is an unbeliever and doesn't know any better.

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When challenged, you almost invariably resort to threats and abuse, and I find that depressing.

Commander Xenophon said:

Everything @civilwarbuff has said in his reply is correct though.



When challenged, you almost invariably resort to threats and abuse, and I find that depressing.

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Can't say what I really want to say here.........

cgaviria said:

You have to take this further in regards to minial sins, which are "sins not leading to death", one can live perfect and not even commit menial sins, when one is baptized in holy spirit. I am relieved that you are closer to the truth than this other person on here who was resisting me on even the sin of adultery, as if you could commit adultery and still be saved. Absolutely appalling, and it infuriates me that someone would say that, which could cause other babes in the faith to be lead astray. People who say such things truly deserve death.

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Have you not read the story of the woman found in Adultery? What did our Lord do to her? Did He condemn her?

cgaviria said:

Because I grow weary reasoning with you people daily, and still you believe the same false doctrines, not even just about the trinity, but basic truths about sin. That you can be right with God and still commit adultery? HOW INSANE! You guys believe in a different Jesus that is not the Jesus of the scriptures. This is depressing to me, and to God. And I am not just grieved, I am angered, because these very teachings lead other believers, babies in the faith, little lambs, astray.

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Aside from not having read the Adultery pericope, it seems you haven't read this, either:

You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

How many times now have you called someone foolish? A few dozen, at a minimum, on these boards, and that makes me sad. People present you with reasoned, well-researched arguments, and you just hurl abuse at them, which is an ad hominem and morally contrary to the Gospel.

Commander Xenophon said:

Aside from not having read the Adultery pericope, it seems you haven't read this, either:

You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

How many times now have you called someone foolish? A few dozen, at a minimum, on these boards, and that makes me sad. People present you with reasoned, well-researched arguments, and you just hurl abuse at them, which is an ad hominem and morally contrary to the Gospel.

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I posted that earlier for him but 1 Cor 2:14 prevents him from understanding it......

cgaviria said:

"deliver such a one over to Satan".

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Before I give the answer to this, you tell me what you think it means....I believe because of 1 Cor 2:14 you don't have a clue but here is your chance to prove me wrong.....have at it.