Why the Sabbath is a moral commandment

[SabbathBlessings]

Indeed, which means we shouldn't descriminate the law in anyway but I don't see that as a high value in your perspective of law. Show me how we can view Sabbath and circumcision the same way, and on top of that all the laws, rather than try and cut up law and treat each part differently which would be based on a biased reasoning.

God never viewed circumcision the same way He viewed the Sabbath commandment, hence why circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God or inside the ark of the covenant under His mercy seat, part of His Testimony. Deut 4:13 Exo 31:18 revealed in heaven Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19 that He and added no more Deut 5:22 so this is not an argument with me.

Once God blesses something, its blessed forever

1 Cor 17:27 Now You have been pleased to bless the house of Your servant, that it may continue before You forever; for You have blessed it, O LORD, and it shall be blessed forever.”

Man can't reverse regardless how much they disagree with what God blessed and sanctified and asked us to keep in a very specific manner.

Num 23:20 Behold, I have received a command to bless;
He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it.


God blessed the Sabbath

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

and blesses those who keeps the Sabbath day holy, the way He said shown throughout Scripture such as Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13 Lev 23:3 Luke 4:16 Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 16:13 etc etc


Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

Its hard to try to reason with our own logic over what God said. so I am going to agree to disagree.


Lets get back on topic, please watch the video and discuss using Scriptures.

 

[DamianWarS]

God never viewed circumcision the same way He viewed the Sabbath commandment, hence why circumcision is not one of the Ten

Circumcision is a sign of an everlasting covenant as Sabbath is a sign of an everlasting covenant. Sabbath is to the Sinaitic covenant as circumcision is to the abrahamic covenant. The sinaitic covenant is sealed with the 10, the abrahamic is sealed in a ceremony of God passing through portions of burned offerings as fire. You see the need to elevate one over the other I just see God and have no desire to rank his manifestations.

Once God blesses something, its blessed forever

its the 7th day that God blesses. The 4th is a commandment that is a sign of the sinaitic covenant which is conditional not universal. The 7th day is everything that before light was spoken isn't. It contrasts light/darkness, complete/incomplete, rest/chose, filled/empty, etc... It is the answer to the formless dark void of Gen 1:2. The 4th only shows us a physical perspective of the same thing, Christ shows us the complete view.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Circumcision is a sign of an everlasting covenant as Sabbath is a sign of an everlasting covenant.

Still doesn't change Why the Sabbath is a moral commandment

Its a matter of understanding the role of the Ten Commandments and the role of circumcision. Jesus is our circumcision so there is no more wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles. Col 2:9-13 Eph 2:11-14 so it is an everlasting covenant through Christ we are all now grafted in His covenant promise through faith Gal 3:26-29- His covenant has His laws Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 Heb 8:10- His version, not mans. Its up to use to accept or reject, the heart of the issue throughout the entire bible.

There is no Scripture that says the Sabbath commandment turned into anything different than the commandment God gave- not a jot or tittle can be changed as if man can overwrite God's own will and Testimony Psa 40:8 Exo 31:18 that He said He would not alter. Psa 89:34 as His word is settled in heaven Psa 119:89 right where the ark of His Testimony is, in heaven Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19. Why Jesus and the apostles kept the Sabbath day according to the commandment. Luke 23:56 Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13 Lev 23:3 Luke 4:16 Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 16:13 etc etc

Sabbath is to the Sinaitic covenant as circumcision is to the abrahamic covenant. The sinaitic covenant is sealed with the 10, the abrahamic is sealed in a ceremony of God passing through portions of burned offerings as fire. You see the need to elevate one over the other I just see God and have no desire to rank his manifestations.


its the 7th day that God blesses. The 4th is a commandment that is a sign of the sinaitic covenant which is conditional not universal.

There is no Scripture that says the Sabbath is a sign of the sinaitic covenant, God said it its a sign between God and His people Eze 20:20 and a sign of His sanctification Eze 20:12. The Sabbath points us to creation and then to His re-creation in us if we keep the Sabbath (His version). The Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11, not at My Sinai thus saith the Lord,. It was a commandment before Mt Sinai Exo 16:28

The 7th day is everything that before light was spoken isn't. It contrasts light/darkness, complete/incomplete, rest/chose, filled/empty, etc... It is the answer to the formless dark void of Gen 1:2. The 4th only shows us a physical perspective of the same thing, Christ shows us the complete view.

These are your words, not what God said about His Sabbath.

Like I said, its impossible to reason with someone with their opinions as if its the same as God's spoken and written word. So for those reasons, I am going to bow out and agree to disagree.

 

[DamianWarS]

Its a matter of understanding the role of the Ten Commandments and the role of circumcision. Jesus is our circumcision so there is no more wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles. Col 2:9-13 Eph 2:11-14 so it is an everlasting covenant through Christ we are all now grafted in His covenant promise through faith Gal 3:26-29- His covenant has His laws Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 Heb 8:10- His version, not mans. Its up to use to accept or reject, the heart of the issue throughout the entire bible.

There is no Scripture that says the Sabbath commandment turned into anything different than the commandment God gave- not a jot or tittle can be changed as if man can overwrite God's own will and Testimony Psa 40:8 Exo 31:18 that He said He would not alter. Psa 89:34 as His word is settled in heaven Psa 119:89 right where the ark of His Testimony is, in heaven Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19. Why Jesus and the apostles kept the Sabbath day according to the commandment. Luke 23:56 Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13 Lev 23:3 Luke 4:16 Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 16:13 etc etc

You just finished telling me how circumcision has changed then tell me how we can't change God's commandments. Is not circumcision God's commandment? In fact a sign of an everlasting covenant that is required in the flesh as detailed in Gen 17. How can you so easily spiritualized one commandment but refuse on another when the answer is the exact same.

Christ is the flesh that is cut off and sacraficed so circumcision is fulfilled. Christ rests like no other, in the grave, on the very day of the Sabbath which is by design. Not just his hands and feet rest but his breath and heart rest too. Only Christ has accomplished the requirement of the Sabbath like no other has. We may recieve that completeness of Sabbath rest that only he can fulfill as we do with circumcision through Christ. Our attempts of Sabbath rest do nothing to keep it holy as we ourselves can only be holy through Christ. It is not the day, it is Christ, and through Christ we too are made holy just as creation account is brought from nothing to complete restoration so too are we through Christ by his light spoken into our darkness were we are transformed and restored. The Spiritual parallels are undeniable just as they are with circumcision. Yet circumsicion changes and if I dare suggest the same for the 4th I'm accused of altering Gods law. this is arbitrarly discriminating law. The support you use can be equally used to back any law and in no way is unique to the 10. The context of Mat 5:17 is not the 10 it is "all the law and the prophets" just as all the law and the prophets hang up the greatest commandments (not just the 10) The 10 get no special treatment in the new covenant as you are giving them.

There is no Scripture that says the Sabbath is a sign of the sinaitic covenant, God said it its a sign between God and His people Eze 20:20 and a sign of His sanctification Eze 20:12. The Sabbath points us to creation and then to His re-creation in us if we keep the Sabbath (his version). The Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11, not at My Sinai thus saith the Lord,. It was a commandment before Mt Sinai Exo 16:28

Sinaitic covenant of course is just for reference and there is no formal name of the covenant just as its formally not called mosaic or others abrahamic. These are words of utility not official titles used in the Bible. I uses them to prevent confusion.

Sabbath itself starts at creation but the law is radified on Mt Sinai and practice. there is no reference to Sabbath practice in Genesis outside the 7th day itself and no instruction to keep it. The law itself is unique to the covenant but as you've pointed out Sabbath itself is independent. the 4th is of the 7th day, and so derives it's meaning from the 7th, but we don't reverse engineer the 7th day using the 4th.

Ex 31 also shows us this relationship right on the mountain. A "sign between Me and you" is a covenant relationship. Call it a Sabbath covenant if you want, but it is still a covenant. I use Sinaitic as a catch all for the covenant relationships under the leadership of Moses. Exodus goes back and forth and there appears to be multiple events of law handed out which is consistent with Hebraic block logic ordering of things.

As a note I used to say Mosaic but then I was accused of calling it Moses's covenant so I thought Sinaitic was a better word. I don't think it necessary to say the "covenant found in Exodus"

These are your words, not what God said about His Sabbath.

Like I said, its impossible to reason with someone with their opinions as if its the same as God's spoken and written word. So for those reasons, I am going to bow out and agree to disagree.

You've reduced this to insult. You don't have to agree with me, but accusing me of trying to be at the same level of God is grossly inappropriate. please show greater respect on these forms. By accusing me of these things is tantamount to calling me a false prophet that is against God. This constant form you take to reduce someone because you don't agree with them needs to be re-evaluated and is not something I will participate with. Let iron sharpen iron not destroy and tear it down.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

Heb 10:4-12 says the all the laws regarding animal sacrifice and offerings end at the cross.

In Hebrews 8:4, it refers to offerings that were still being made in accordance with God's law, so they did not end with the cross.

My post did not say that God destroyed the temple in Jerusalem at the time of the cross. It points to the text of Heb 10 to say that the significance of animal sacrifices and offerings ended at the cross as far as God is concerned.

4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,

“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Christ took away the first (animal sacrifice and offerings) to establish the second (the once for all sacrifice of Christ on the cross) in the midst of the 70th week (490 year timelinne) as predicted in Dan 9. fulfilled right on time.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,

The entire book of Hebrews was written (between 64 and 68 AD) to help Jewish Christians pivot to the heavenly sanctuary and the ministry of Christ in heaven before the destruction of the Temple , and also destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Likewise, in Acts 21:20-24, Paul planned the pay for the offerings of others who were under vow.

Paul did not initiate that --- rather the Christian Jewish leadership in Jerusalem insisted on it. But Paul's statement in Heb 10 still stands as the inspired summation of the end of animal sacrifices from God's POV taking place at the cross since the sacrifice of Christ was the whole point of their existence and it was completed "once for all" at the cross.

So at the writing of Heb 10 -- even though the literal earthly sanctuary was still operational -- Paul says it was doing nothing. The priesthood had transitioned to Christ in heaven as we see in Heb 8:1-4 at "the main point". Just as Daniel had predicted Christ would do.

Paul referred to Jews as being "the circumcision" and Gentiles as being "the uncircumcision" and circumcision Is a command of God, so he was not making a distinction between the commands of God, but rather he was saying that being a Jew or Gentile is not what matters but what matters is obeying the commands of God.

He was very specifically contrasting circumcision on the one hand and "Keeping the commandments of God" on the other. The only way circumcision is NOT in the same category is if there is some distinction. It is like saying "when driving your car reading political campaign ads does not matter --- what matters is obeying traffic signs"

While there are divisions in the commands of God, they do not correspond to the moral, civil, and ceremonial law.

1 Cor 7:19 seems to put circumcision in the "no longer matters" category and "the commandments of God" in a different category.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You just finished telling me how circumcision has changed then tell me how we can't change God's commandments.

What example did I use?

as if man can overwrite God's own will and Testimony Psa 40:8 Exo 31:18 that He said He would not alter. Psa 89:34

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Ezo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

I have made this comparison from God's Word more than once as circumcision is not in the Ten Commandments. The law written by Moses was on paper (as it fades) placed outside the ark as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 which is everything but the Ten Commandments- God's covenant, God's commandments, God's works, God's Testimony inside the ark, that God numbered by design Ten and added no more written on stone for its eternal nature just as He promised. Psa 89:34

Is not circumcision God's commandment? In fact a sign of an everlasting covenant that is required in the flesh as detailed in Gen 17. How can you so easily spiritualized one commandment but refuse on another when the answer is the exact same.

The post you are replying to was not my words its Scripture. The Text doesn't have the same conclusion on the Sabbath commandment Luke 4:16 Acts 13:44 Mat 24:20 Isa 66:23. If we follow God's written Word, we don't have to rely on our own reasoning or conclusions .

Christ is the flesh that is cut off and sacraficed so circumcision is fulfilled. Christ rests like no other, in the grave, on the very day of the Sabbath which is by design. Not just his hands and feet rest but his breath and heart rest too. Only Christ has accomplished the requirement of the Sabbath like no other has. We may recieve that completeness of Sabbath rest that only he can fulfill as we do with circumcision through Christ. Our attempts of Sabbath rest do nothing to keep it holy as we ourselves can only be holy through Christ. It is not the day, it is Christ, and through Christ we too are made holy just as creation account is brought from nothing to complete restoration so too are we through Christ by his light spoken into our darkness were we are transformed and restored. The Spiritual parallels are undeniable just as they are with circumcision. Yet circumsicion changes and if I dare suggest the same for the 4th I'm accused of altering Gods law. this is arbitrarly discriminating law. The support you use can be equally used to back any law and in no way is unique to the 10. The context of Mat 5:17 is not the 10 it is "all the law and the prophets" just as all the law and the prophets hang up the greatest commandments (not just the 10) The 10 get no special treatment in the new covenant as you are giving them.


Sinaitic covenant of course is just for reference and there is no formal name of the covenant just as its formally not called mosaic or others abrahamic. These are words of utility not official titles used in the Bible. I uses them to prevent confusion.

Sabbath itself starts at creation but the law is radified on Mt Sinai and practice. there is no reference to Sabbath practice in Genesis outside the 7th day itself and no instruction to keep it. The law itself is unique to the covenant but as you've pointed out Sabbath itself is independent. the 4th is of the 7th day, and so derives it's meaning from the 7th, but we don't reverse engineer the 7th day using the 4th.

Ex 31 also shows us this relationship right on the mountain. A "sign between Me and you" is a covenant relationship. Call it a Sabbath covenant if you want, but it is still a covenant. I use Sinaitic as a catch all for the covenant relationships under the leadership of Moses. Exodus goes back and forth and there appears to be multiple events of law handed out which is consistent with Hebraic block logic ordering of things.

As a note I used to say Mosaic but then I was accused of calling it Moses's covenant so I thought Sinaitic was a better word. I don't think it necessary to say the "covenant found in Exodus"


You've reduced this to insult. You don't have to agree with me, but accusing me of trying to be at the same level of God is grossly inappropriate. please show greater respect on these forms. By accusing me of these things is tantamount to calling me a false prophet that is against God. This constant form you take to reduce someone because you don't agree with them needs to be re-evaluated and is not something I will participate with. Let iron sharpen iron not destroy and tear it down.

Sorry, if you felt that way. If you can use Scripture instead your own logic as you even indicated in your post. For example, there is a name to the covenant being used God said it is His covenant Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 and told us exclusively what they cover. This is an example of what I am referring to. God tells us in His word, but sadly many refuse to believe Him and come up with other non-Biblical names or ideas and that's what I mean its too difficult to debate over. If we can't believe what God has said verbatim from His own mouth, nothing I can say is going to make a difference. God really tells us everything we need to know in His word- but the issue seems to be not allowing God's word to define Itself, especially when its God's Himself doing so.

 

[BobRyan]

You just finished telling me how circumcision has changed then tell me how we can't change God's commandments.

1. circumcision has not changed. IT was never required for gentiles "to be saved"
2. Only God can change His commandments declaring them "ended". That is not the job of man.

Is not circumcision God's commandment?

It is part of the ceremonial law and was never a requirement for "gentiles to be saved" either OT or NT
It has not changed

Christ is the flesh that is cut off

No He is not

Sabbath itself starts at creation

agreed.

It was made a holy day at creation Gen 2:2-3 confirms it and Ex 20:11 confirms it

but the law is radified on Mt Sinai and practice. there is no reference to Sabbath practice in Genesis outside the 7th day itself and no instruction to keep it.

Genesis does not say "do not take God's name in vain" -- yet that was sin.
God accused Cain of "sin" in Gen 4 even though "do not murder" is in Ex 20 and not in Gen 1-4

Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today, starting with Creation week.

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul

 

[Leaf473]

Let iron sharpen iron not destroy and tear it down.

Yes, let us say what is good for edification and not what causes division

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Mat 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

We should never come together at the expensive of going away from God's commandments or Testimony. Isa 8:20

 

[DamianWarS]

1. circumcision has not changed. IT was never required for gentiles "to be saved"

Christ however still is cut off for all mankind so it's not good enough to say it's not for the gentiles. Circumcision foreshadows Christ, the law is meant not for the Jews but for those under its covenant but the the meaning is meant for everyone. Jesus is the flesh that is cut off and in this way he ends the requirement of circumcision as through Christ we inherit his perfect fulfillment of the law so no longer need to look to this flesh being cut off but instead look to Christ.

Sabbath law is the same. It too foreshadows salvation under Christ, it too is meant for the covenant it is created under (it was the sign of the covenant) and it too is fulfilled in like manner to circumsicion. Jesus rested in the grave, not just his hands and feet but his breath and beating heart. I'm this way he completes Sabbath like no other, then resurrects on the 1st day. If we too want that perfect fulfillment of Sabbath law then we cannot look to a requirement of a day to accomplish this, but we must look to Christ and through Christ we have his fulfillment of Sabbath law.

circumcision in the flesh is not required upon us because Jesus died in the flesh, not because it's not for gentiles. If a gentile became a Jew they are expected to get circumsiced if not already. The sacrafical system is not upon us because Christ is our sacrifice, separating laws are now released because God has released his spirit upon all peoples. There is a theme here and Sabbath law does not escape it, it too is fulfilled through Christ. Have they "changed" that is matter of sementics of what word you use to describe the requirments of the old vs the new but regardless Christ is the one we get the fulfillment from, not cutting off flesh, resting on days, separating our threads or slaughtering lambs.

 

[DamianWarS]

Mat 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

We should never come together at the expensive of going away from God's commandments or Testimony. Isa 8:20

its contradictory to divide law on one hand then say you spare no law on the other hand.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

its contradictory to divide law on one hand then say you spare no law on the other hand.

I did not divide the Law, God did when He separated all the other laws from the Ten Commandments. Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 Deut 5:22 It’s something one will have to take up with Him if they don’t agree.

 

[DamianWarS]

I did not divide the Law, God did when He separated all the other laws from the Ten Commandments. Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 Deut 5:22 It’s something one will have to take up with Him if they don’t agree.

God's purpose is not to ignore everything else. Doesn't Isaiah 8:2 include circumcision?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God's purpose is not to ignore everything else. Doesn't Isaiah 8:2 include circumcision?

Now you’re making a new argument. I never said to ignore everything else. God made distinctions about the Ten Commandments and all other laws. His word reveals these distinctions if we allow His word to.

 

[DamianWarS]

Now you’re making a new argument. I never said to ignore everything else. God made distinctions about the Ten Commandments and all other laws. His word reveals these distinctions if we allow His word to.

How does Isaiah 8:20 reveal this? What laws are included and what laws are omitted?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

How does Isaiah 8:20 reveal this?

You're taking my post on another subject and adding it to our discussion. It waa in response to this Why the Sabbath is a moral commandment, perhaps the confusion. I never said Isa 8:20 was relating to the separation of different laws by God.

What laws are included and what laws are omitted?

God's word tells us. I recommend just reading His word without adding our own ideas to it and following it as it expresses His will.

 

[DamianWarS]

You're taking my post on another subject and adding it to our discussion. I never said Isa 8:20 was relating to the separation of different laws by God.

Since you quoted it what does Isa 8:20 include?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Since you quoted it what does Isa 8:20 include?

Its all of God's Word. But if we can't believe God's own Testimony that He personally and divinely wrote Exo 31:18, not man, the testimony through His prophets and apostles really doesn't matter.

 

[DamianWarS]

Its all of God's Word. But if we can't believe God's own Testimony that He personally and divinely wrote Exo 31:18, not man, the testimony through His prophets and apostles really doesn't matter.

If Isaiah 8:20 is all God's word then why discriminate law?

the belief you propose is loaded. I accept it as the scripture puts it, your using it to assign value to a level never mentioned. Are you saying the finger of God is better than his fire that radified the Abrahamic covenant? Or better than the still small voice to Elijah? Or the burning bush to Moses? Are we to now rank God's direct interactions with man? what is the measure we use to determine what ranks highest or is more inspired?

Is the commandment to circumsize given to Abraham less inspired or less authoritive than the 10?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If Isaiah 8:20 is all God's word then why discriminate law?

If you mean God separating the Ten Commandments from all other laws, Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 and then adding no more Deut 5:22 as I stated previously that will have to be taken up with Him.

Is the commandment to circumsize given to Abraham less inspired or less authoritive than the 10

Once again you are making arguments I never made- all of God's Word is inspired and never said anything to the contrary, so again, introducing new arguments and ones I have not made. In God's inspired word there are different laws that serve different purposes which God Word reveals, if we allow It to.