Why the poor aren't getting ahead.

[OldWiseGuy]

As the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said, the poor are poor by choice. To a large extent this is true. When you choose to goof around in school, cause trouble from the back row, harass the teacher, disrupt the education of others, not do your homework and not apply yourself, you'll leave school almost as ignorant as you started it. Of what value are you to a high tech marketplace?

When you sit around and smoke weed, drink excessively and do other drugs you disqualify yourself from lucrative careers. Girls who have babies when they are 15 don't have the job skills to support themselves and become a burden on society while sentencing their baby to a life of poverty. There are exception, but relatively few.

The problem is there is not enough incentive to work. I deal with business people every day whose biggest problem is getting people to come in to work on time and ready to do the job they were hired to perform. The laziness of others is the biggest obstacle to their own success. For whatever reasons our youth has very little work ethic. We have an entire generation of people who think they are entitled to live in Mommy's basement until Mommy dies and leaves them the house.


For the poor young gang member who lives on the streets because his mother works two jobs and is never home and his father was a one night stand she had when she was partying, they can either get the heck out of the street and go to school or go enlist in the military, learn a skill, and when they get out move anywhere else.

The "Great Society" was designed to create a permanent underclass dependent on government for everything so they would continue to vote for Democrats who tossed them a few scraps and kept them in the chains of poverty. Our schools are infested with liberals who tell people that tossing scraps to the poor is good and teaching them to support themselves is bad. There is no honor in being burden to your neighbors.

You nailed it, bro!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That title wouldn't assume they are or are not; it has no agenda.

It would just offer reasons why people aren't getting ahead.

Just flip those reasons and voile, the road to success.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I have no argument with this. It has to be a multifaceted approach, involving support, care, emergency aid, education, removal of unfair restrictions and hurdles, and above all, compassion.

Support, care and compassion I can do. The others are not mine to give.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Quite many of the poor are actually mentally handicapped or mentally challenged individuals due to life circumstances.

I know this because I had the opportunity to live and work among the poor for a long time.

Because their parents were likewise poor. These poor folks had to endure malnutrition, substance abuse of their parents, and lack of positive mental stimulation during their infancy and childhood.

They missed proper brain development at the most opportune time - during infancy and childhood.... So it's not surprising they adopt anti-social behavior especially if that's the only thing they knew from their parents or environment.

We can't have high expectations of them and they absolutely need help to become productive individuals, they can't do it on their own.

I would assess that on a case-by-case basis.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why do you think so many people take an immediate position of saying you are a terrible person or even a racist for pointing out that too many people that are poor are unwilling to do the things you pointed out that they are unwilling to do. Are they saying you arr wrong to think too many are like this? Do they think that there are no poor that are like this? I also noticed they act as if you are saying all poor are like this but you did qualify it as being too many. You did not specify how many were too many. I do not know but it could be you see 5% of poor like this. Would they object to you thinking 1% of poor being like this was too many? I find it interesting that instead of asking for clarification on the actual message you are sending that they simply attack the messenger. Could it be they have such a black and white view of reality that any questioning of their stereotypes is beyond their ability to cope with so they immediately assume you are working solely from some sort of contradictory stereotype from theirs?

I get that knee-jerk reaction often. I don't mind as I'm always trolling a bit anyway.

 

[grasping the after wind]

That assumes that most people aren't getting ahead, not true.

I thought of several inappropriate jokes about getting a head. What exactly does getting ahead mean to you? For me it has nothing to do with my finances.

 

[keith99]

Perhaps the defining reason that 'the poor' can't get ahead is because as soon as they even start to get ahead they are no longer 'the poor'.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The people who offered help, ironically, were the people who were in the same boat as me: those least able to help were the most willing. The people most able found it easier to just chalk up my situation to some assumed character failure on my part and leave me to what they were convinced were my just rewards.

I refuse to do that to someone else.

The most memorable offer of help came in the form of part-time work.

True story.

Some friends and I would gather at a nearby riding stable after work and ride horses, often until midnight. The owners grandson was supposed to run the business and collect the money, which he seldom did. We often had to catch and saddle our own horses as he was seldom there. The owner got to know us and one day offered me free riding if I would help out by watching over novice riders. He chose me from all the others (I wouldn't have asked those outlaws to do anything).

That fall I lost my job (got fired actually) and the owner, who owned rental office properties offered me part time work cleaning the vacant buildings. The pay wasn't the best but it kept me in gas, cigarettes, beer, and hamburgers until I found work in my trade once again.

He chose me because he recognized a work ethic in me, an ethic that I have had since childhood when I and my brother were asked to shovel snow and mow grass in the neighborhood. No other kids would do this work as it interfered with their playtime. My brother and I needed pocket money so we gladly did the work. There was no such thing as 'allowances' for boys in my family.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I get that knee-jerk reaction often. I don't mind as I'm always trolling a bit anyway.

So you are not entirely serious and enjoy people's emotional over reactions? I assume you must have a lot of spare time then.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I thought of several inappropriate jokes about getting a head. What exactly does getting ahead mean to you? For me it has nothing to do with my finances.

Since the topic is income getting ahead is filling one's needs, with enough left for some savings, savings that can be parlayed into an investment.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So you are not entirely serious and enjoy people's emotional over reactions? I assume you must have a lot of spare time then.

I troll for a deeper conversation, which seldom occurs.

I just popped in to catch my breath and grab a bite from work. I'll only be few moments at a time here.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Perhaps the defining reason that 'the poor' can't get ahead is because as soon as they even start to get ahead they are no longer 'the poor'.

"Poor", even "poverty" can have a vague meaning.

 

[Non sequitur]

Just flip those reasons and voile, the road to success.

I think you're missing the overall reaction. It's more nuanced than, "Don't make bad choices".

People can be and stay poor for those reasons, nobody is disagreeing with you that those aren't valid reasons, as well as many other reasons that are outside their control.

Aside from stating the obvious, I'm not sure what the overall point you are getting at is exactly.

 

[majj27]

Support, care and compassion I can do. The others are not mine to give.

Whose would be they be?

 

[brinny]

Why the poor aren't getting ahead.

Too many are,

Undereducated
Under motivated
Unwilling to plan
Unwilling to sacrifice
Unwilling to work hard
Unwilling to obey the law
Unwilling to care for their health
Unwilling to abstain from drugs and alcohol
Unwilling to remain unmarried until they can afford it.
Unwilling to present themselves to an employer properly.

Dave Ramsey would agree with you.

As do i.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think you're missing the overall reaction. It's more nuanced than, "Don't make bad choices".

People can be and stay poor for those reasons, nobody is disagreeing with you that those aren't valid reasons, as well as many other reasons that are outside their control.

Aside from stating the obvious, I'm not sure what the overall point you are getting at is exactly.

I think it's best to address bad choices first, then we can deal with the nuances (which are often used to excuse bad choices).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why the poor aren't getting ahead.


Dave Ramsey would agree with you.

As do i.

Thanks. It's good to someone else understands.

 

[brinny]

Thanks. It's good to someone else understands.

Indeed.

I've been there.

God bless you.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The best thing that can happen to our long-term economy is to stop allowing cheap foreign goods and cheap foreign labor into the country.

We could set up camps for the poor to live in while they pick fruits and vegetables or do other infrastructure labor. I've lived in 'tent cities' in the army. It's not so bad once you get used to it. This was done during the depression in the WPA programs. They built a lot of great things.

A cousin of mine went to Greenland as a heavy equipment operator when the air base at Thule was built. He lived in a quonset hut for year, with nothing to do but work. When he returned he bought the local taxi cab company. He had been a long-haul trucker but wanted to be home more. He made enough money to leave his small house in town and buy a nice home on a big lake. This when he was fifty-some years old.

 

[majj27]

You do understand though why people unacquainted with your personal situation would simply put you in the box they reserved for all people they saw in that situation. The tendency to stereotype is a very hard one to fight. They had most likely in the past seen a similar situation caused by a real "character flaw" on the part of the person in that situation. Leaving "character flaws" aside as a bit of a subjective term and one I would not use as descriptive of the unwillingness that the OP is talking about. Pointing out that "too many" have an unwillingness to do things which keeps them from in improving their financial situation is not the same as ascribing that unwillingness to all in that situation. If the the reality, is that there are those that are unwilling to put forth the effort to become self sufficient then I would tend to say that no matter what percentage that amounts to there are "too many". If that is the case then pointing it out may not be pleasant to consider but it is something worthy of discussing rather than simply dismissing it and surely not cause to label the messenger with a distasteful label.

Well, you have your opinion, I guess.

I was told I lacked "a work ethic" when I was working 3 jobs and my days consisted of 10-12 hours at work.
I was told I "must be lazy if I choose to live THERE" when I gave them a home address in the bad part of town.
I was told to "get an education" when I was doing this work in the vain hopes of finishing my degree.
I was told to "get my homeless [phrase for someone's hiney] out of the house of God" when I stepped in between jobs because hearing the choir was the only music I could afford.
I was told "you're such a worthless piece of homeless {another swear word}" by people I biked past on my rush between jobs because I was riding a bike with my multiple uniforms in a tied bag in winter.

I lived in that world for four years. Day in, day out. I heard this sort of thing on a daily basis. Which of these messengers was just "telling me like it is"? Which of them should I have stopped and debated with?

You know what DID help? 2 completely random acts of generosity from POOR people. One gave me a broken bicycle, and another had his apartment-mate die of an infection and offered me the couch for what I could afford to pay.

You know what didn't help? Being told by the society I was so longing to rejoin that I was unwelcome. And yes, they did that. Constantly.