IreneAdler
more binah in her finger than in your whole body
Delphiki - None of the above (it's a theory, and the others are religious conviction)
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Why teach creationism in public school science classes?
- Thread starter SplitRock
- Start date
Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
Same here -- but I have learned a lot about how people viewed the the world back then, and what people these days have turned the Bible into to serve their purposes.
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IreneAdler
more binah in her finger than in your whole body
that ^ I agree with. It's been bastardized to the point of not making sense anymore (it takes tons of study to get most of it because the chain of teaching is no longer intact/valid)
but I will say I am still christian
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The "just a theory" fallacy has been thoroughly addressed on these forums and all over the internet and in classrooms. It arises from the misunderstanding of the word "theory". A theory is an explanation of the facts -- amassed data and evidence and all. It's not a guess. Like "germ theory" or "theory of gravity", or even "music theory". So actually, in your provided context, a theory would actually mean a summary, explanation, or collection of the scientific facts regarding the Theory of Evolution.
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IreneAdler
more binah in her finger than in your whole body
I've read them and while I understand what's said, I don't see it as being thoroughly addressed. JMHO though.
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I've read them and while I understand what's said, I don't see it as being thoroughly addressed. JMHO though.
What about all of what fits on just the first page of just about any bible? Would you consider that "fully addressed"? And why is that held to a different standard than 150+ years of concrete evidence, testing, and hard work?
You have a right to your opinion. I'm just not sure if you realize why you hold that opinion.
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J
Jazer
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It takes the Holy Spirit of God to help us to understand what we are reading. If you "don't believe anymore" then that just tells me you were trying to figure it out yourself without God's help. I learned that He is not interested in doing things my way, I have to learn how to do things His way.
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Yes, yes, yes. We know. You have to read the bible to believe in God, but to read the bible correctly you have to believe in God... so you can read the bible to believe in God... to read the.... yeah.
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IreneAdler
more binah in her finger than in your whole body
(you don't have to read the bible to believe in God but ok - lol - it's a common push from Christians but I don't see it)
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J
Jazer
Guest
I did not really believe. I just had tried everything else and nothing was working. So someone suggested I give the Bible a try. For me I found out that the Bible does indeed work and supply what I needed. Perhaps that is why the Bible is still around after 3500 years. Lots of things get forgotten. Even there are people who have lived their whole lives and there is no memory or written record of them anywhere.
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mzungu
INVICTUS
I have found the solution that will satisfy the creationists and at the same time put them on the receiving end by opening the can of worms:
A law should be passed allowing creationism to be taught in schools as either history or science. This will make the creationists very happy.... for a while that is, until all the other religions demand equal representation.
I guarantee you that the creationists will be the first to request the repeal of this law lest they be made to share class time with Islam, Hinduism, animism, Satanism, etc.
Divide and rule is the order of the day!
A law should be passed allowing creationism to be taught in schools as either history or science. This will make the creationists very happy.... for a while that is, until all the other religions demand equal representation.
I guarantee you that the creationists will be the first to request the repeal of this law lest they be made to share class time with Islam, Hinduism, animism, Satanism, etc.
Divide and rule is the order of the day!
Upvote
0
Goodbook
Reading the Bible
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just want to say, praise God things have moved on and evolutionists are starting to realise they their theory actually conflicts with the evidence, and it's not wrong to question their assumptions. Nobody could even answer my question about the cambrian (or pre-cambrian) 'explosion'. The inadequate and unconvincing answers given to my questions regarding evolution and the condescending tone just further heaps coals upon their pet theory, constantly touted as fact. If ToE were fact nobody would even need to question it, we would all accept it as given. So I rest my case.
God however, will not be mocked and if he wants to create life in as many forms in the space of one day he will, and he can just as easily take it away. As for the fossil evidence this largely came about because of Noah's flood, people talk about the marine fossils as if they can't conceive how floodwaters would produce marine fossils. Well if they read the bible they will see the flood not only came about by rainfall but also from 'the fountains of the deep' ie. water gushing up from underneath the earth- what we see as geysers these days, that flooded the entire earth. It is not hard to conclude that those great forces of nature would bury and fossilise vast amounts of living organisms including marine life. The devastation of the flood and climate change brought about by such a worldwide disaster explains why dinosaurs could not survive.
As for Lucy's skull- the foramen magnum - actually that is inconclusive evidence as Lucy's skull was made up of fragments..the skulls of other apes deemed to be the same species as Lucy was suggested as evidence of Lucy's bipedality. But until we see a FULL complete skeleton, I remain a skeptic that she represents a human ancestor.
Radiometric dating- largely unreliable as it is, althought scientists like to insist it is fullproof, just like any drug manufacturer will tell you their drugs are effective. If one reads 'the Age of the Earth' by Dalrymple ( I think that was it, long time ago now) you will see how they calculate it. Sure it sounds mathematically sophisticated but you read between the lines you find they do chuck out a lot of data that does not fit with their pre-conceived idea of a 4.5 billion year old earth. From that framework the geologic column is constructed, and rock strata then made to conform to pre-suggested times (epochs) with index fossil correlations that geologists assume were in great quantities at the time. Reality shows however that this is not the case, and nowhere will you see rock strata that conforms to what you see in textbooks. Also they have a hard time explaining disconformities - rocks that are not ordered according to the chronological sequence they have devised. There is a lot of a-priori reasoning and assumptions going on, as well as evolutionists linking up plants and animals into similar groupings by assuming lineage and quasi-ancestry despite the genetic DNA evidence that a species chromosomal barrier cannot be crossed and cannot breed true with incompatible DNA. That is why hybrids are sterile.
As already discussed, evolutionists talk about speciation (macro-evolution) when what is really going on is variatian within species. That is why Mendels Law holds up as FACT and is observable and repeatable while Darwins' ToE does not. Even his 'natural selection' falls down like a house of cards when put to the test. Darwin tried to co-opt Mendels observations of genetic traits passed down as evidence that it is mutation that results in new species. But actually that is a complete misreading of the evidence. He also relied on Lyell's uniformatism to give credence to the long ages needed for evolution, but we see geologists today cannot agree to uniformatism, and have to admit catastophism, I mean even earthquakes and volcanoes that can from layers of rock in mere days gives proves uniformatism wrong.
One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to critique evolution, or to dare say it is stupid! . It seems scientists and teachers who have a vested interested in perpetuating pet theories (or making a name for themselves) are blind to their own science. That is why you see people are so hostile to creationists, who see evolution as a science fiction fairy tale that people have bought into because it makes scientists feel clever. How dare we deny their 'reality'! But what it really comes down to is they for some reason, hate God. I have been told 'creationism is laughable' or some other vitriol, but what these people don't realise then they are holding their own existence in contempt because they cannot conceive that God has a hand in his own creation. Another thing evolutionists think, as evidence from the tone of their posts, is that they themselves are highly evolved and intellectual while anything that came before them (and does not subscribe to their POV) is 'primitive' and ignorant. Eugenics does not bother them because their 'evidence' appears to be supported by tOE. Scientific racism has been used to justify horrendous crimes, including the holocaust.
The Bible shows however, that God is no respector of persons, that Jesus came to save the world, not to condemn it. Whoever believes in him WILL be saved. Pauls says there is no slave nor free, no jew nor gentile, male or female but all are one in christ Jesus. Where racism is evident, God is quick to condemn it and there are many sinners told of in the Bible. Jesus did not tell Good Samaritan parable to the Jews (who hated the samaritans) nothing. Anyone who uses the bible as support for racist doctrine is twisting scripture.
My prayer for you who read this is if you do not understand anything in the Bible feel free to ask, you are not condemned for seeking God, for those that hold to the theory of evolution as fact, that your eyes may be opened to the deception and see it for what it is, scientific speculation, and that you may all come to know the truth as Jesus says it will set you free, and be blessed once you realise that God created you to fufill His purposes, he only desires you come to know Him, and to give you abundant life and all the promises in his Word. I am not a professional preacher, I don't get paid, I am not a 'creationist' or teacher, I wasn't raised a christian, was not born into any religious family, was never indoctrinated, I am just a born-again disciple of Christ who reads the Bible and understands it with the help of the Holy Spirit.
As for the question of the OP.
I think AV has a good point, that creationism, what the Bible says about the origins of life and humans is best taught as history. No other book gives such an accurate picture of the time it was written. And this is confirmed by archaeology, observation, the prohecies being fufilled historically, human nature, and subsequently what is going on in the world today.
That proper science (experiment, testing, observation) be taught without the overlay of naturalist speculative philosophies which came about basically because people just wanted to classify and label their fossil and rock collections and tell a story about them. If evolution is to be taught as a requirement because it is part of the curriculum, students should feel free to critique and question the evidence for it, just like the big bang theory is.
I have no objection to other religions being taught as religious history or mythologies. After all we live in a world with a multitude of religions that profoundly influence the way people interact with each other. I think students can make up their own minds of comparison as to what is true and moreover, they will learn what is of most value. IMHO Jesus light shines through all the darkness.
Of course, some of what I have said is going to be anathema to unbelievers, especially those who hate God and the Bible, but before attacking me, understand that this is a Christian forum you have come here to find out what christians believe, I would not be sharing with you otherwise. I do not go onto evolutionist forums and go about debating or attacking atheist evolutionists and preaching to them, but if you don't like being preached to here, that is tough. We christians even preach to each other, because through preaching, God is praised and glorified, and the truth upheld, and we are edified, so get used to it!
God Bless.
God however, will not be mocked and if he wants to create life in as many forms in the space of one day he will, and he can just as easily take it away. As for the fossil evidence this largely came about because of Noah's flood, people talk about the marine fossils as if they can't conceive how floodwaters would produce marine fossils. Well if they read the bible they will see the flood not only came about by rainfall but also from 'the fountains of the deep' ie. water gushing up from underneath the earth- what we see as geysers these days, that flooded the entire earth. It is not hard to conclude that those great forces of nature would bury and fossilise vast amounts of living organisms including marine life. The devastation of the flood and climate change brought about by such a worldwide disaster explains why dinosaurs could not survive.
As for Lucy's skull- the foramen magnum - actually that is inconclusive evidence as Lucy's skull was made up of fragments..the skulls of other apes deemed to be the same species as Lucy was suggested as evidence of Lucy's bipedality. But until we see a FULL complete skeleton, I remain a skeptic that she represents a human ancestor.
Radiometric dating- largely unreliable as it is, althought scientists like to insist it is fullproof, just like any drug manufacturer will tell you their drugs are effective. If one reads 'the Age of the Earth' by Dalrymple ( I think that was it, long time ago now) you will see how they calculate it. Sure it sounds mathematically sophisticated but you read between the lines you find they do chuck out a lot of data that does not fit with their pre-conceived idea of a 4.5 billion year old earth. From that framework the geologic column is constructed, and rock strata then made to conform to pre-suggested times (epochs) with index fossil correlations that geologists assume were in great quantities at the time. Reality shows however that this is not the case, and nowhere will you see rock strata that conforms to what you see in textbooks. Also they have a hard time explaining disconformities - rocks that are not ordered according to the chronological sequence they have devised. There is a lot of a-priori reasoning and assumptions going on, as well as evolutionists linking up plants and animals into similar groupings by assuming lineage and quasi-ancestry despite the genetic DNA evidence that a species chromosomal barrier cannot be crossed and cannot breed true with incompatible DNA. That is why hybrids are sterile.
As already discussed, evolutionists talk about speciation (macro-evolution) when what is really going on is variatian within species. That is why Mendels Law holds up as FACT and is observable and repeatable while Darwins' ToE does not. Even his 'natural selection' falls down like a house of cards when put to the test. Darwin tried to co-opt Mendels observations of genetic traits passed down as evidence that it is mutation that results in new species. But actually that is a complete misreading of the evidence. He also relied on Lyell's uniformatism to give credence to the long ages needed for evolution, but we see geologists today cannot agree to uniformatism, and have to admit catastophism, I mean even earthquakes and volcanoes that can from layers of rock in mere days gives proves uniformatism wrong.
One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to critique evolution, or to dare say it is stupid! . It seems scientists and teachers who have a vested interested in perpetuating pet theories (or making a name for themselves) are blind to their own science. That is why you see people are so hostile to creationists, who see evolution as a science fiction fairy tale that people have bought into because it makes scientists feel clever. How dare we deny their 'reality'! But what it really comes down to is they for some reason, hate God. I have been told 'creationism is laughable' or some other vitriol, but what these people don't realise then they are holding their own existence in contempt because they cannot conceive that God has a hand in his own creation. Another thing evolutionists think, as evidence from the tone of their posts, is that they themselves are highly evolved and intellectual while anything that came before them (and does not subscribe to their POV) is 'primitive' and ignorant. Eugenics does not bother them because their 'evidence' appears to be supported by tOE. Scientific racism has been used to justify horrendous crimes, including the holocaust.
The Bible shows however, that God is no respector of persons, that Jesus came to save the world, not to condemn it. Whoever believes in him WILL be saved. Pauls says there is no slave nor free, no jew nor gentile, male or female but all are one in christ Jesus. Where racism is evident, God is quick to condemn it and there are many sinners told of in the Bible. Jesus did not tell Good Samaritan parable to the Jews (who hated the samaritans) nothing. Anyone who uses the bible as support for racist doctrine is twisting scripture.
My prayer for you who read this is if you do not understand anything in the Bible feel free to ask, you are not condemned for seeking God, for those that hold to the theory of evolution as fact, that your eyes may be opened to the deception and see it for what it is, scientific speculation, and that you may all come to know the truth as Jesus says it will set you free, and be blessed once you realise that God created you to fufill His purposes, he only desires you come to know Him, and to give you abundant life and all the promises in his Word. I am not a professional preacher, I don't get paid, I am not a 'creationist' or teacher, I wasn't raised a christian, was not born into any religious family, was never indoctrinated, I am just a born-again disciple of Christ who reads the Bible and understands it with the help of the Holy Spirit.
As for the question of the OP.
I think AV has a good point, that creationism, what the Bible says about the origins of life and humans is best taught as history. No other book gives such an accurate picture of the time it was written. And this is confirmed by archaeology, observation, the prohecies being fufilled historically, human nature, and subsequently what is going on in the world today.
That proper science (experiment, testing, observation) be taught without the overlay of naturalist speculative philosophies which came about basically because people just wanted to classify and label their fossil and rock collections and tell a story about them. If evolution is to be taught as a requirement because it is part of the curriculum, students should feel free to critique and question the evidence for it, just like the big bang theory is.
I have no objection to other religions being taught as religious history or mythologies. After all we live in a world with a multitude of religions that profoundly influence the way people interact with each other. I think students can make up their own minds of comparison as to what is true and moreover, they will learn what is of most value. IMHO Jesus light shines through all the darkness.
Of course, some of what I have said is going to be anathema to unbelievers, especially those who hate God and the Bible, but before attacking me, understand that this is a Christian forum you have come here to find out what christians believe, I would not be sharing with you otherwise. I do not go onto evolutionist forums and go about debating or attacking atheist evolutionists and preaching to them, but if you don't like being preached to here, that is tough. We christians even preach to each other, because through preaching, God is praised and glorified, and the truth upheld, and we are edified, so get used to it!
God Bless.
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mzungu
INVICTUS
Source?
Your obvious lack of knowledge of Biology and science in general does not allow you to entertain let alone understand the evidences brought to you on ToE.
One cannot mock something that does not exist.
Then explain why no dinosaur fossil has been found with human remains? Explain what happened to the dinosaurs and especially the sea dwelling reptiles?
Did you know that chimps and humans can inter-transfuse blood so long as the blood type is the same?
Have you ever sought medical attention? Yes? Well then you have just accepted EVOLUTION! Why? Well to put it simply:
Biology makes no sense without ToE.
Medicine cannot function without biology.
Therefore Medicine needs ToE.
Now aren't you tired of copy pasting things you have no idea about?
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Cabal
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Funny how in all the examples in the list I posted subgroups of a population can no longer interbreed i.e. they've, erm... speciated.
Learn what it is you're criticising before you criticise it.
Right, so you accuse scientists have a vested interest in their theories, but in no way can the same accusation be levelled at creationists, can it? They don't have a massive investment in their subjective, personal and unfactual interpretations of the Bible being correct, do they? Nooooo, of course not
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K
knowledgeIsPower
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Congratulations. You're now one step closer to understanding why you're all the laughing stock of the human race.
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Three things here:I have found the solution that will satisfy the creationists and at the same time put them on the receiving end by opening the can of worms:
A law should be passed allowing creationism to be taught in schools as either history or science. This will make the creationists very happy.... for a while that is, until all the other religions demand equal representation.
I guarantee you that the creationists will be the first to request the repeal of this law lest they be made to share class time with Islam, Hinduism, animism, Satanism, etc.
Divide and rule is the order of the day!
- Creationism needs to stay out of science class.
- Evolutionism needs to stay out of science class.
- The tares always spring up where the wheat is planted, and needs to stay out of science class.
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