why some never get saved

[Bible Highlighter]

Calvinism is not even remotely biblical. It's also an attack upon the good character of our God, as well.
For it makes God responsible for men choosing to remain in their sin. For in Calvinism, God by default chooses to not Elect many to be sinners and damn them for all eternity. So God creates life just for the express purpose to torture them beyond something they had no control over. That's about as crazy as a bag of cats or in believing in a flat Earth. For Calvinism can lead a person into despair into thinking God has not chosen them to be saved, and thus they can just go back to their old life of sin and evil (When God actually desires them to repent). I mean why would God get angry at the wicked every day according to Psalms 7:11 if God is the One who chose them to remain as being wicked by His choice to not Elect them or to not bring them to His salvation yet? The Judgment? In Calvinism: The Judgment is a joke or a farce. In Calvinism: Men are being condemned at the judgment not because they chose to reject the Lord and refuse their sin but because God by default chose them to damnation.

While there are tons of verses that refute Calvinism from Genesis to Revelation, there are three major points in Scripture that I like that demolishes the illogical construct of Calvinism.

#1. 2 Thessalonians 2:10.
#2. Luke 13:3.
#3. Jonah 3:1-10.

#1. 2 Thess. 2:10 says,

“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

According to the verse above what was the reason why those who perish are perishing?
Does it say that those who perish are perishing because they were not Elected?
No. It says that the reason why those perish are perishing is because... THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH. THEY received not the love of the truth. It was their choice (if you believe 2 Thessalonians 2:10). Another thing this verse says is that... they MIGHT be saved. Those who are perishing MIGHT be saved. So there is a possibility that they could have been saved. There is no MIGHT be saved in Calvinism. So either I believe in John Calvin and his doctrines or I trust and believe my Bible. I choose to believe the Holy Bible instead.​

#2. Luk. 13:3 says,

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:3).

In this verse, Jesus is basically telling us to repent or perish. In Calvinism, the Elect are never in danger of ever really perishing and the Non-Elect cannot repent. Even if the Calvinism says that their old life was fit for them to perish, they have to face the fact that they never were in ever real danger if they end up being Elect or chosen by God in the end. Jesus does not seem to share this view. Jesus is giving us a.... Do this action (repent) or face this bad fate (perish) kind of situation instead. So either Calvinism is correct, or Jesus is correct. I choose to believe what Jesus says and not Calvinism.​

#3. Jon. 3:1-10 says,

1 “And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.”

Nineveh was said to be overthrown in 40 days by Jonah (See: Jonah 3:4).
But did this happen? No. What changed the situation?
The Ninevites repented.

The Ninevites chose to do two very important things (as a part of their repentance):

#1. They cried mightily unto God
(i.e. they sought forgiveness with God over their sin) (See: Jonah 3:8), and

#2. They turned from their evil way
(i.e. they stopped committing the sins that they sought forgiveness with the Lord) (See: Jonah 3:8).
​

Jonah 3:10 says that when God had seen the Ninevites turn away from their evil ways, God had repented (turned back) from the evil (His wrath, judgment) that He was going to originally bring upon them. So what was the reason the Ninevites did not face God's wrath? Was it because God elected them to salvation and it was nothing in that they did? Is that what we read in this story? No. The reason why the Ninevites did not face God's Wrath is because THEY decided to repent. We see in the story God turned back from the evil (His wrath against sin) upon the Ninevites because they chose to forsake their evil ways (their sin). No Unconditional Election or Calvinism in this chapter. In fact, this part of the story of Jonah actually demolishes Calvinism big time. So again, I have to ask myself. Should I believe in Calvinism or should I just read and believe Jonah chapter 3? I choose again to believe my Bible plainly and not Calvinism.​

But many folks like the idea of God being Calvinistic for their own personal reasons. So they will choose to believe in Calvinism despite what these parts of Scripture plainly say. They will seek to change these portions of Scripture to fit their preferred belief in Calvinism, or ignore they will simply ignore these verses altogether. For I have never really received a rational explanation (with the use of God's Word) on these three points in Scripture. Not once. It never happened.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

hello all. been doing a lot of soul searching about getting saved, and the question popped into my mind, why is it that some dont get saved? ray comfort and todd friel would say 1. because people love their sin. and 2. because they thought they had done so much bad, 5hat they couldnt be saved. both are interesting ideas. but for me, i think its something different.

You asked the question:

Why some never get saved?

Well, in Calvinism (Which is unbiblical), many are not saved because God simply did not Elect them to salvation (Which is not based on any conditions within the individual). God just appears to for no good reason to Elect a few and by default, damn the many. But the Bible teaches that those who perish are perishing because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:10 in the King James Bible).

Also, Jesus says:
“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.” (John 3:20).

The light is Jesus Christ (See: John 8:12).
So when a person does evil they are hating Jesus (Whether they want to do so or not).
For Jesus stood against all forms of sin (including sexual sin).
For if we truly love Christ, we will love what He loves, and hate what He hates.
This is why the rich young ruler went away sad.
He loved his sin more than Jesus (His creator and Savior).

i find i have a lack of repentance. specifically over sexual sin. i have a hard time accepting that 2 adults married can have sex 20 times a day, yet the unmarried cant have sex at all. i have a real problem with that. i feel like single people get a raw deal in this regards.

Survey Says: Marital Sex Statistics How Often Married People Have Sex

According to the article above: The average amount of sex for a married couple is about once or twice a week. So the idea of 20 times a day is not the average for a married couple. There are females in a marriage who also do not like to have intimacy during their period (7 days) as well (because it is messy, i.e. blood gets everywhere). Note: The Bible even talks about not having sex during her period, too. So don't expect marriage to be this free for all daily sex spree. It can help, but your partner may work, and be busy, or she may not always feel like doing it. So keep that in mind that even married Christian men have to have self control, too. It's not like every time a Christian male is in the mood and their wife is always ready. That is not always the case. The real test is in loving Christ first in our lives. But this test is not always a quick pass and fail thing. I believe God gives us many chances and He wants us to keep fighting until the end for Him until we do overcome any grievous sin that might be besetting us.

i believe i have to find a way around this or i'll never get salvation. but is it dangerous to question a rule concerning this? can a person be past repentance if they think like this for too long?

Yes, there is a point of getting passed feeling over our sin (i.e. their comes a point whereby a person does the sin so much without any regret that they just don't care anymore).

“Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.” (Ephesians 4:19).

Many Christians today believe that you can sin and still be saved. This kind of belief obviously can lead a person to falling into the danger of Ephesians 4:19.

Hebrews 3 says,
“To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.” (Hebrews 3:13).

“Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.” (Hebrews 3:12).

This means that sin can harden our hearts and it can make us to to depart from the living God.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Well, in Calvinism (Which is unbiblical), many are not saved because God simply did not Elect them to salvation (Which is not based on any conditions within the individual)

actually, i disagree as far as calvinism not being Biblical. it is the most Biblical doctrine there is, and every part of it can be found in the Scriptures. in my experience, anyone who says otherwise, is simply full of pride and thinks their own free will is more powerful than Gods sovereignty.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

actually, i disagree as far as calvinism not being Biblical. it is the most Biblical doctrine there is, and every part of it can be found in the Scriptures. in my experience, anyone who says otherwise, is simply full of pride and thinks their own free will is more powerful than Gods sovereignty.

Right, so then you must have a rational explanation for 2 Thessalonians 2:10, Luke 13:3, and Jonah 3:1-10.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

actually, i disagree as far as calvinism not being Biblical. it is the most Biblical doctrine there is, and every part of it can be found in the Scriptures. in my experience, anyone who says otherwise, is simply full of pride and thinks their own free will is more powerful than Gods sovereignty.

Also, the question of your thread is not in line with being a Calvinist. The Calvinistic answer to your thread question is that God just simply chooses by default to not elect others based on no conditions. That's your answer (if you believe in Calvinism), and I bet it offers you no comfort of any kind. That's because it is made up.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

actually, i disagree as far as calvinism not being Biblical. it is the most Biblical doctrine there is, and every part of it can be found in the Scriptures. in my experience, anyone who says otherwise, is simply full of pride and thinks their own free will is more powerful than Gods sovereignty.

I believe Calvinism is not in line with God's goodness or character and or fair justice. It would be like a coast guard saving everyone on a lifeboat except for you and your family and when you ask him why he is not saving you and your family, he says.... “No reason, I just do not want to save you.” “You should be thankful that I am saving these other people.” Or it would be like a dog owner who kicks his dog across the room like a football because it has an uncontrollable pooping problem whereby the dog squeezes out hot piles of steamy goodness on his master's white carpets. So instead of the master taking his dog to the vet and trying to help him, he just decides to kick the poor animal and to punish it. That's kind of how I see the God of Calvinism. For it is called UNconditional Election. Meaning, God is not electing anyone based upon any conditions found within the individual. So God is simply creating many for the express purpose to be tortured for all eternity. That is their destiny that they cannot escape and God has chosen this only path for them. God wants many lives to suffer for all eternity and we should just be thankful that He saves a few when He has the power to save them all (But He simply doesn't). This does not sound like the loving God of the Bible. For John 3:16 says God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.

I believe Calvinism cannot be true because if it was (not that it ever could be), I would conclude that life is meaningless and nothing I ever did truly mattered.

I believe Calvinism cannot be true because if it was (not that it ever could be), I would have to conclude God wanted the majority of mankind to be in despair without any hope because only a few are elected or saved by His choice and not their own. For the person who was looking for hope could not truly find it from God if God decided that they never were Elected. Too bad for them, right? They were not one of the chosen lucky ones.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Wow! You are all over the place, but if i’m understanding you, i think i see where the problem is.
In Romans 3:11, paul says noone seeks out God, noone is good.
In John 6:44, Jesus said “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.”

The Father calls us, you have NOTHING to do with your salvation because 1. It is a gift from God, and 2. Noone seeks out God on their own. If the Father calls us, and His grace is irresistible, then He has predestined you to be saved, and you will be.

so everyone who will be saved, was chosen by the Father directly. And it is because of Jesus’ death that salvation is even possible.

hope that helps.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I think another issue is, we all deserve hell. By God saving some of us, it shows even more His glory. Stop thinking that everyone is going to be saved, Jesus said many will try to enter Heaven, but few will.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Wow! You are all over the place, but if i’m understanding you, i think i see where the problem is.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 says that the reason why those who perish are perishing is because THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH that they MIGHT be saved. It does not say that the reason they are perishing is because they are not elected by God.

In Romans 3:11, paul says noone seeks out God, noone is good.

Actually, you misquoted Romans 3:11. It says:

“There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” (Romans 3:11).

So do you interpret this verse as applying to even believers or only the unregenerate?
How do you explain those believers who do seek after God and who do have understanding on certain things in the Bible?

In John 6:44, Jesus said “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.”

You have to keep reading beyond John 6:44.

John 6:45 says, “It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”

In other words: Every man (the Jew) who has HEARD (listened to God through obeying God's commands) and has learned of the Father (loving others - Matthew 5:43-48) comes unto me (i.e. Jesus).

John 6:45 is clear in that this is not in reference to unbelieving Jews or unbelieving Gentiles. This is in reference to those Jews who had a relationship with God because they heard and learned of the Father. THESE are the ones who are drawn by the Father to come to Jesus. Not just anybody!

Side Note:

As for the phrase, “It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.”: This is in reference to Isaiah 54:13-14 that says:

“And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.” (Isaiah 54:13-14).

Meaning, this is in reference to God's children who are established in righteousness (i.e. in seeking God's grace, and in living holy unto the Lord). So John 6:45 is in reference to Jews who have a relationship with God the Father. This is the context of John 6:44. So this is not some kind of forced thing going on (i.e. anti-free will) involving those who do not believe when it says draw. John 6:44 is referring to how no Jew can come to Jesus without first hearing and learning from the Father beforehand (John 6:45).

The Father calls us, you have NOTHING to do with your salvation

Yet, Peter says, “Save yourselves from this untoward generation.” (See: Acts of the Apostles 2:40).

because 1. It is a gift from God,

Generally gifts have to be received. For a person can refuse a gift.

“But there were false prophets also among the people, ... even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” (2 Peter 2:1).

So there are false prophets / teachers who deny the Lord who bought them. This shows that the Lord bought all men, but that does not mean all men accept the Lord because we know some false teachers deny the Lord who bought them.

and 2. Noone seeks out God on their own. If the Father calls us, and His grace is irresistible, then if He has predestined you to be saved, you will.

Jesus says, “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (Matthew 22:14).
Just read the proceeding parable to learn why.
Anyways, just because a person is called does not mean they end up being chosen or saved in the end.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think another issue is, we all deserve hell. By God saving some of us, it shows even more His glory. Stop thinking that everyone is going to be saved, Jesus said many will try to enter Heaven, but few will.

Nowhere did I ever suggest that everyone (or many) will be saved.
I believe narrow is the way and FEW be there that find it.
Calvinism is not really the narrow way but it is more in agreement with even Non-Calvinistc Protestants who believe they can sin and still be saved on some level.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Romans 3:11 applies to EVERYBODY.
If a person is a believer and does seek after God, it is because God called them first.

john 6:44 explains how predestination works. Its for everyone that the Father has called. He calls you, you respond with belief and repentance.

your free will is not stronger than Gods sovereignty. The Father calls you, you accept it, you can now repent as even that is not something just anyone can do. Repentance is a gift from God as well. Repentance and faith take place, you are now justified, and the Holy Spirit enters you, and starts you down the path of sanctification.

Thats about as simple as i can make it. And calvinism explains salvation better than any other doctrine. If you arent a calvinist, and are a protestant, i’ll assume you’re an armenianist. You guys got it backwards.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Romans 3:11 applies to EVERYBODY.
If a person is a believer and does seek after God, it is because God called them first.

Sure, Romans 3:11 refers to our past life before we came to Christ. But does it apply to the present tense walk of a believer who is already saved by God's grace and studies His Word?

john 6:44 explains how predestination works. Its for everyone that the Father has called. He calls you, you respond with belief and repentance.

You completely ignored my points on John 6:45. That's the context of John 6:44 that gives the appropriate clarity.

your free will is not stronger than Gods sovereignty.

Free Will in the Bible:

#1. Joshua 24:15 KJV -
"Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve"

#2. Matthew 11:28 KJV -
"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

#3. John 7:17 KJV -
"If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God."

#4. John 7:37 KJV -
"If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."

#5. Acts 2:38 KJV -
"Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized"

#6. Acts 3:19 KJV -
"Repent therefore and be converted"

#7. Acts 16:31 KJV -
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"

#8. Acts 17:30 KJV -
"but now commands all men everywhere to repent"

#9. Revelation 22:17 KJV -
"Whoever wills, let him take the water of life freely."

#10. Genesis 4:7 KJV -
"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

#11. Revelation 22:17 KJ2
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

#12. Luke 13:34 NLT -
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me

The Father calls you, you accept it, you can now repent as even that is not something just anyone can do. Repentance is a gift from God as well.

This is a false misunderstanding on 2 Timothy 2:25.

The Good News Translation clarifies what is being said.

“who is gentle as you correct your opponents, for it may be that God will give them the opportunity to repent and come to know the truth.” (2 Timothy 2:25).

So God is not gifting the ability for a person to repent.

Jesus basically says in Luke 13:3 to repent or perish. This would be contrary to God's will if repentance was solely something God had to gift to people. Jesus would being going against the Father's way of doing things if He was telling people to repent or they would perish.

Repentance and faith take place, you are now justified, and the Holy Spirit enters you, and starts you down the path of sanctification.

“...the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.” (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

Thats about as simple as i can make it. And calvinism explains salvation better than any other doctrine.

No offense, but I believe Calvinism attacks the good character of our God because it means that God creates the majority of life for the sole purpose of being tortured for all eternity in hellfire for no actual reason. God just did not choose them to be Elect or saved and so they will be punished (When God could have easily saved them by Electing them to salvation). But seeing they are not chosen.... then too bad. They are toast. That does not sound like the loving God of the Bible. But you are free to believe this way of course.

If you arent a calvinist, and are a protestant, i’ll assume you’re an armenianist. You guys got it backwards.

No need for labels. I just read and believe the Bible. Just as there is no evidence for a flat earth, the same is true for Calvinism. No offense, but I see both views as being equally silly.

Anyways, may God bless you (even if we disagree strongly on what God's Word teaches).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Calvinism has about 75 million adherents according to Google (Note: I used the keywords “How many calvinists are there today?”). Does this fact line up with what Jesus said in Matthew 7:14?