Why Social Justice is Marxism, and Why it Applies to Your Marriage.

[I Art Laughing]

Okay, we've been through this before. When people start demanding their rights it puts them in contradiction with Christ. This is immediately observable when you see feminists in the Church (such as the case of Catholic nuns) lining up with the likes of avowed Marxists such as Lawrence O'Donnell and Amy Goodman (who regularly use the phrase and advocate "social justice"). Shortly after we see that alignment we see them promoting homosexuality, euthanasia, gay marriage, abortion, and "equality" of outcome (more commonly known as Marxism). Once submission of Christ is removed from the core of our believes the whole mess comes flooding in.

For the sake of simplicity I am citing Wikipedia:

Social justice is based on the concepts of human rights and equality and involves a greater degree of economic egalitarianism through progressive taxation, income redistribution, or even property redistribution. These policies aim to achieve what developmental economists refer to as more equality of opportunity than may currently exist in some societies, and to manufacture equality of outcome in cases where incidental inequalities appear in a procedurally just system. The Constitution of the International Labour Organization affirms that "universal and lasting peace can be established only if it is based upon social justice."[4] Furthermore, the Vienna Declaration and Programme of Action treats social justice as a purpose of the human rights education.[5]

What we see is humans demanding justice. That SOUNDS like a good idea, that seems fair what is the problem with that?

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
(Mat 6:19-20)

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
(Joh 18:36)

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
(Mar 13:8-10)

I'm thinking we can be Gandhi (or Lenin or Jefferson) and fight for earthly privileges and many are, but lets not drag Christ into this, it's not what He is about. Jesus was always focused on the eternal, when we feed the hungry, clothe the naked, or visit the lonely it is not because of a temporal condition that we minister, it is because they are Christ and THEY will last. Enlisting the government to take care of the temporal needs is a grim substitute for ministry from the Body. Jesus told the Herodians:

Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
(Mat 22:17-21)

What belongs to Jesus that the Marxist/"socially just" wants to deliver over to Caesar? His brethren:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
(Mat 25:32-40)

They turn ministry into a cause, Marx wanted to turn God on His ear.

Marxism/"social justice" is Christianity without Christ, it replaces the unction of the Holy Spirit with the mandates of government, the still small voice with the roar of the revolutionaries. It will not tolerate the competition of the Holy Spirit and persecutes believers wherever it exists. It is the flesh imitating Christ.

What we see in "social justice" is a demand from the arm of the flesh to achieve those things in the world that are only achievable by the Holy Spirit. God is a just God and will bring justice, in so far as man is obedient to God man can bring it as well. Men are not just on their own.

When we see a demand for human solutions we should be aware of who we just put on the throne. That soon leads to demanding our "rights" across all sectors, Christ came to bring us a Cross to do away with our sinful flesh, not a crown to give it a coronation. When anyone starts reaching for that crown they are following in the iniquity of Lucifer who grasped to be like the "Most High" and not like Jesus who counted it not robbery to give up what was rightfully His.

When we get humans at the center, it fouls everything up. Including our marriages. It turns them into a self-seeking circus of demands and counter-demands, dissatisfaction with all of our own fixes. If we're going to make them work according to God's design, obedience to Him must be at the core (not a humanistic ideology).

 

[Athene]

Let's look at this logically.

Taking your premise - Marxism/social justice is Christianity without Christ.

Romans 2:14-16
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

When a Christian is involved in social justice or express Marxist views, they're not actually involved in social justice or being Marxist - they're just being normal Christians practising a Christ centred life and loving their neighbours.

If a Christian is against social justice or condemns Marxism - there is a strong possibility that they are not living a Christ centred life, they're not loving their neighbours, and if they can't see anything noble and worthwhile in the Marxist philosophy they're obviously have a worldly point of view - possibly focused on materialism and selfishness.

/thread

 

[I Art Laughing]

Let's look at this logically.

Taking your premise - Marxism/social justice is Christianity without Christ.

Romans 2:14-16
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

When a Christian is involved in social justice or express Marxist views, they're not actually involved in social justice or being Marxist - they're just being normal Christians practising a Christ centred life and loving their neighbours.

If a Christian is against social justice or condemns Marxism - there is a strong possibility that they are not living a Christ centred life, they're not loving their neighbours, and if they can't see anything noble and worthwhile in the Marxist philosophy they're obviously have a worldly point of view - possibly focused on materialism and selfishness.

/thread

Appealing to Caesar rather than Christ is not loving your neighbor. It is just the Maoist version of politcal power extending from the barrel of a gun. In the Christian-ese version it is a false "Gospel" extending from the barrel of the State's gun. I don't call that love at all.

 

[Athene]

That's a terrible answer tbh. Christians are actively involved in political campaigning, what do you think the Christians did who were involved in the civil rights movement? Sat around praying while everyone else did the activism?

 

[I Art Laughing]

That's a terrible answer tbh. Christians are actively involved in political campaigning, what do you think the Christians did who were involved in the civil rights movement? Sat around praying while everyone else did the activism?

Show me where Jesus called for activism. "Social justice" is just the Marxists attempt at co-opting what it couldn't literally kill outright. The State is not the solution and changing it won't reverse the curse. Social activism is not an interchangeable concept with the Gospel, the two "causes" are different and incompatible. Any corellations are coincidental, the Bible tells us:

And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you; That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
(1Th 4:11-12)

How does you political activist match up with that? Usually it is somebody expressing a lack of thanksgiving towards God, and expressing in the loudest way how they are being deprived of nearly everything. Not the model of a joyful believer who knows that they are storing up treasures in heaven. People want to run around making demands of others and claim to be Christians, the whole attitude seems to me to be antithetical to Christ.

 

[mkgal1]

Marxism is an economic and sociopolitical worldview and method of socioeconomic inquiry that centers upon a materialist interpretation of history, a dialectical view of social change, and an analysis and critique of the development of capitalism. Marxism was pioneered in the early to mid 19th century by two German philosophers, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Marxism encompasses Marxian economic theory, a sociological theory and a revolutionary view of social change that has influenced political movements around the world.[1]

The Marxian analysis begins with an analysis of material conditions, taking at its starting point the necessary economic activities required by human society to provide for its material needs.

Basically.....at the center of Marxism is the "materialistic interpretation".......Christianity is centered on our attitudes that CAUSE "material interpretations" (Out of our heart flows all the issues of life~Proverbs 4). It's an issue of the heart to care for others---just as Jesus cared for others needs.

 

[UK Fred]

That's a terrible answer tbh. Christians are actively involved in political campaigning, what do you think the Christians did who were involved in the civil rights movement? Sat around praying while everyone else did the activism?

I cannot see IAL promoting not being politically active. But we have to see what "social justice" really is. It is all about avoiding what is really just because some poor little waif cannot, in the mind of someone else, be held responsible for their actions, often when that same poor waif is laughing at those who are trying to help him/her avoid punishment because they know full well that what they have been doing is evil but don't give a monkey's about that. It is giving social housing to an unmarried mother because it will be too crowded in her (often unmarried) mother's flat and denying that same flat to a young married couple who have chosen to wait until they have the room to have a child before they start breeding. It is giving incentives to badly behaved children in school when they stop misbehaving quite so badly and giving nothing to the children who actually want to learn rather than disrupt lessons.

I don't know if you are old enough to remember a journalist called Patrick Hutber, Athene, but I can still remember a column that he wrote in which he pointed out that to prefix any noun with the adjective "social" was to change its meaning to exactly the opposite of what it ought to mean. The two examples that he gave as perfect illustrations were social justice and social work.

What does the Bible say? why not go back to our prime source to see what it has to say?

 

[I Art Laughing]

Basically.....at the center of Marxism is the "materialistic interpretation".......Christianity is centered on our attitudes that CAUSE "material interpretations" (Out of our heart flows all the issues of life~Proverbs 4). It's an issue of the heart to care for others---just as Jesus cared for others needs.

One is the flesh, the other is supposed to be the Spirit.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(Rom 8:3-5)

"Social justice" as a revolutionary endeavor is nothing more than flesh taking care of flesh. True love is by the Holy Spirit, I would rather have Godly charity than human pity. Without God pity is all that humans will manage and it is a waning trait.

 

[SearchingStudent]

So, IAL, you're saying that if one is anything other than a white upper class male, they should stay oppressed under the thumb of whoever is leading, and to do otherwise is not following Christ? So, kiss the emancipation of african americans in the 1800's, the civil rights movement, women's sufferage, unions, etc. child labor laws, etc. goodbye? Really?

Once again...you have some "interesting views". Why don't you live by example. Pay your taxes, quit voting, quit expecting the stores to be full of food, quit expecting that the bank will honor the contract that your mortgage is based on. All these things are rights too. Quit expecting that the cops need a reason to stop you. Heck, get rid of the entire bill of rights. You're sure taking advantage of your "right" to free speech and your "right" to follow whatever religion you choose without having to worry about persecution here in the US.

Go ahead, voluntarily give up those rights. Roll over on whatever power that be that wants to dominate you. I dare you. I doubt you'll do it.

 

[mkgal1]

One is the flesh, the other is supposed to be the Spirit.

That sounds like you are making a division between being human (Jesus was human) and being spirit. There *are* material realities in our life.......there *are* human needs we all have (that Jesus had as well). Paul was accused teaching another gospel--when in fact---it was the false teachers that were doing that. One has to be able to make the proper distinction, and know the genuine.

 

[Romanseight2005]

One is the flesh, the other is supposed to be the Spirit.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(Rom 8:3-5)

"Social justice" as a revolutionary endeavor is nothing more than flesh taking care of flesh. True love is by the Holy Spirit, I would rather have Godly charity than human pity. Without God pity is all that humans will manage and it is a waning trait.

Taking care of the flesh? Do you mean by providing for it by giving someone a cup of water, or visiting them in prison, or giving them a blanket?
Matthew 25:31-26:1
1 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these , you did not do for me.'

46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


NIV

 

[I Art Laughing]

Taking care of the flesh? Do you mean by providing for it by giving someone a cup of water, or visiting them in prison, or giving them a blanket?

No, I mean the flesh taking care of the flesh. The Lord is our provider, He provides for our needs. When we look to taxing the work of some poor unsaved schmuck to feed and clothe the poor we have missed the boat.

I don't have a problem with taking care of the flesh. What is the provision for it is the question. If people would rather petition some secular agency or government and take it from someone else to get it I don't call that charity and I don't call it Godly either. It's what is otherwise known as theft.

What I think is odd is how the "socially just" insist that caring for the flesh by the means of the government equates to the Gospel. The conflation of Caesar and Christ.

What Jesus said is valid, what the "socially just" does is replace the believer's charity with the government's tyranny. They displace the Gospel with the IRS. When I can't own a thing (Marxism) or own so little as to only provide for myself because the Government rations me how am I going to be free to visit the sick? How am I going to clothe the poor and feed the hungry. When the Marxist is done with me, that will be me.

 

[mkgal1]

No, I mean the flesh taking care of the flesh. The Lord is our provider, He provides for our needs.

That's not what the passage says.....we are HIs "hands and feet"....."His ambassadors" that proclaim of HIm in word and in deed.

 

[I Art Laughing]

That's not what the passage says.....we are HIs "hands and feet"....."His ambassadors" that proclaim of HIm in word and in deed.

So why didn't Jesus tell His disciples to organize a march on Rome to address the injustices of Augustus Caesar? Did Jesus not have the authority or was he lacking in political/military power? Maybe He was awaiting for a properly enlightened democracy to arise so that political activism would finally be able to complete the work of the Gospel?

We ARE His hands and feet, that is why he told us to feed, clothe, house, and visit and not the government.

Christians need to render unto Caesar those things which are Caesar's and quit using him as a Christ supplement. The Marxist wants to confuse these two but they have no understanding between the motives of the flesh and the motives of the Holy Spirit, they are materialists and that is all they are going to see.

 

[mkgal1]

So why didn't Jesus tell His disciples to organize a march on Rome to address the injustices of Augustus Caesar? Did Jesus not have the authority or was he lacking in political/military power? Maybe He was awaiting for a properly enlightened democracy to arise so that political activism would finally be able to complete the work of the Gospel?

We ARE His hands and feet, that is why he told us to feed, clothe, house, and visit and not the government.

Christians need to render unto Caesar those things which are Caesar's and quit using him as a Christ supplement. The Marxist wants to confuse these two but they have no understanding between the motives of the flesh and the motives of the Holy Spirit, they are materialists and that is all they are going to see.

Don't we have a representative government....that basically is "WE the people"?

Obviously.....our govenment isn't our savior or always the answer to our needs (it often fails). Our needs also go beyond the temporal, and are more eternal---yet, we can't throw the baby out with the bath water either.

 

[dallasapple]

Don't we have a representative government....that basically is "WE the people"?

Obviously.....our govenment isn't our savior or always the answer to our needs (it often fails). Our needs also go beyond the temporal, and are more eternal---yet, we can't throw the baby out with the bath water either.

I agree...our government is a "collective" ..hopefully of the average person..

Our goernment as well is made up of 100's of people
that "represent us" not just our "figurehead" ...

Its HARD t be able to "pick " peopel all the way down to who represents your city to who represents your country..

We do the best we can and I dont thnk we have "failed"..It could be worse..Im still proud of America..

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

I dotn have a felony covnction and I can STILL carrry a concealed weapon... Just not on a Dart bus... or into a bar...

 

[The Antigrrrl]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."
-- Professor Alexander Tytler

We are down to only 50 percent who pay taxes in the US, wonder what happens when we get down to 40?

 

[mkgal1]

...........and that's why America isn't a democratic nation. Isn't there a point to our checks and balance system?

 

[LinkH]

When a Christian is involved in social justice or express Marxist views, they're not actually involved in social justice or being Marxist - they're just being normal Christians practising a Christ centred life and loving their neighbours.

If a Christian is against social justice or condemns Marxism - there is a strong possibility that they are not living a Christ centred life, they're not loving their neighbours, and if they can't see anything noble and worthwhile in the Marxist philosophy they're obviously have a worldly point of view - possibly focused on materialism and selfishness.

Marx called religion 'the opiate of the masses.' Marxist governments have been some of the most oppressive persecutors of Christians in history. Marxism posits a violent revolution in which the lower classes take over, create a socialist state to manage the distribution of wealth, until everyone reaches a state, from the goodness of human nature, where people just share without the government to monitor them. It's a pretty foolish philosophy for our fallen world. Russia never reached that last step. Neither did China.

Christianity teaches individuals to give and share. When Ananias pretended they donated all the proceeds of the sale of land, Peter pointed out it was theirs to give or not give. Advocating violent overthrow of a nation in order to get the resources of the 'have's' is not consistent with how Christ or the apostles acted. Throwing in one's lot with a bunch of atheists who are going to persecute believers when they get into power is not 'Christian' either. I remember reading about a priest in Eastern Europe who did this out of concern for feeding the people, but the Christians suffered after this.