Why Social Justice is Marxism, and Why it Applies to Your Marriage.

[I Art Laughing]

...........and that's why America isn't a democratic nation. Isn't there a point to our checks and balance system?

There used to be. We're very clever at getting by on the letter of our laws but not the Spirit. It is becoming a democratic nation and various people make sure it continues to head in that direction. Observe President Obama's criticism of the SCOTUS where he suggested that they didn't have the authority to go against the democracy of Obamacare.

In my opinion throwing the baby out with the bathwater is when we collectivize under the Beast government because it is the provider, cradle to grave, nanny state who completely excludes our morality, our responsibilities before God and requires our total obedience. I won't be bowing down to that image, it won't be standing long.

What does this government sound like?

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
(Rev 13:16-18)

 

[Athene]

Marx called religion 'the opiate of the masses.' Marxist governments have been some of the most oppressive persecutors of Christians in history. Marxism posits a violent revolution in which the lower classes take over, create a socialist state to manage the distribution of wealth, until everyone reaches a state, from the goodness of human nature, where people just share without the government to monitor them. It's a pretty foolish philosophy for our fallen world. Russia never reached that last step. Neither did China.

Christianity teaches individuals to give and share. When Ananias pretended they donated all the proceeds of the sale of land, Peter pointed out it was theirs to give or not give. Advocating violent overthrow of a nation in order to get the resources of the 'have's' is not consistent with how Christ or the apostles acted. Throwing in one's lot with a bunch of atheists who are going to persecute believers when they get into power is not 'Christian' either. I remember reading about a priest in Eastern Europe who did this out of concern for feeding the people, but the Christians suffered after this.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't actually agree with IALs premise that marxism/social activism is Christianity without the Christ.

ETA - mainly because social justice and marxism are not one and the same.

 

[Athene]

I cannot see IAL promoting not being politically active. But we have to see what "social justice" really is. It is all about avoiding what is really just because some poor little waif cannot, in the mind of someone else, be held responsible for their actions, often when that same poor waif is laughing at those who are trying to help him/her avoid punishment because they know full well that what they have been doing is evil but don't give a monkey's about that. It is giving social housing to an unmarried mother because it will be too crowded in her (often unmarried) mother's flat and denying that same flat to a young married couple who have chosen to wait until they have the room to have a child before they start breeding. It is giving incentives to badly behaved children in school when they stop misbehaving quite so badly and giving nothing to the children who actually want to learn rather than disrupt lessons.

I don't know if you are old enough to remember a journalist called Patrick Hutber, Athene, but I can still remember a column that he wrote in which he pointed out that to prefix any noun with the adjective "social" was to change its meaning to exactly the opposite of what it ought to mean. The two examples that he gave as perfect illustrations were social justice and social work.

What does the Bible say? why not go back to our prime source to see what it has to say?

No, I've never heard of Patrick Hutber. But from what you've said I think that depends on how you view justice. If you think justice is about people getting what they 'deserve', with you being the decider of what those other people deserve. The single mother being left to rot on the streets, the young child getting kicked out of school and ending up uneducated, jobless and also homeless - as examples. Then you'll think social justice is unjust because it says that the single mum is an important member of our society and should be looked after, it says the child is important and deserves help so he or she can participate fully in society as an adult. It also says if you're not a single mum who is about to be chucked out on the streets, or you're not a child with behavoiural issues - you don't get the support allocated to them .... sorry.

I don't get the social work one, could you explain. It's called social work because it's working with society, communities etc. Unless he's one of those who thinks all social workers are evil and out to ruin lives - anti-social work or something.

God doesn't discriminate against people, he doesn't suck up to the wealthy, idolise the famous, drool over the beautiful. He says each and every one of you is made in my image. hth

So cutting past the paranoia and inaccurate comparisons to marxism, or the daily mail reader-esque resentment towards anybody getting any support that they themselves are not entitled to, what is the actual beef with social justice?

 

[Athene]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."
-- Professor Alexander Tytler

We are down to only 50 percent who pay taxes in the US, wonder what happens when we get down to 40?

the blue states get sick and decide to cut loose from the rest of the country?

 

[I Art Laughing]

Now it came to pass in the fourteenth year of king Hezekiah, that Sennacherib king of Assyria came up against all the defenced cities of Judah, and took them. And the king of Assyria sent Rabshakeh from Lachish to Jerusalem unto king Hezekiah with a great army. And he stood by the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field. Then came forth unto him Eliakim, Hilkiah's son, which was over the house, and Shebna the scribe, and Joah, Asaph's son, the recorder. And Rabshakeh said unto them, Say ye now to Hezekiah, Thus saith the great king, the king of Assyria, What confidence is this wherein thou trustest? I say, sayest thou, (but they are but vain words) I have counsel and strength for war: now on whom dost thou trust, that thou rebellest against me? Lo, thou trustest in the staff of this broken reed, on Egypt; whereon if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all that trust in him. But if thou say to me, We trust in the LORD our God: is it not he, whose high places and whose altars Hezekiah hath taken away, and said to Judah and to Jerusalem, Ye shall worship before this altar? Now therefore give pledges, I pray thee, to my master the king of Assyria, and I will give thee two thousand horses, if thou be able on thy part to set riders upon them. How then wilt thou turn away the face of one captain of the least of my master's servants, and put thy trust on Egypt for chariots and for horsemen? And am I now come up without the LORD against this land to destroy it? the LORD said unto me, Go up against this land, and destroy it. Then said Eliakim and Shebna and Joah unto Rabshakeh, Speak, I pray thee, unto thy servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it: and speak not to us in the Jews' language, in the ears of the people that are on the wall. But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] with you? Then Rabshakeh stood, and cried with a loud voice in the Jews' language, and said, Hear ye the words of the great king, the king of Assyria. Thus saith the king, Let not Hezekiah deceive you: for he shall not be able to deliver you. Neither let Hezekiah make you trust in the LORD, saying, The LORD will surely deliver us: this city shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of Assyria. Hearken not to Hezekiah: for thus saith the king of Assyria, Make an agreement with me by a present, and come out to me: and eat ye every one of his vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink ye every one the waters of his own cistern; Until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of corn and wine, a land of bread and vineyards. Beware lest Hezekiah persuade you, saying, The LORD will deliver us. Hath any of the gods of the nations delivered his land out of the hand of the king of Assyria? Where are the gods of Hamath and Arphad? where are the gods of Sepharvaim? and have they delivered Samaria out of my hand? Who are they among all the gods of these lands, that have delivered their land out of my hand, that the LORD should deliver Jerusalem out of my hand? But they held their peace, and answered him not a word: for the king's commandment was, saying, Answer him not. Then came Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah, that was over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and Joah, the son of Asaph, the recorder, to Hezekiah with their clothes rent, and told him the words of Rabshakeh.
(Isa 36:1-22)

Government in Western Civilization is the new Dagon and God is going to knock it on it's face. We trust in the arm of the flesh, we trust in the world, a broken reed, when we should be trusting only in God. The dependencies being created are elevating government to the role of father, tyrant and god and God is a jealous God. Only God is going to be justified and only His provision is going to suffice and none other will be left standing.

If Europe cannot see the handwriting on the wall, it only proves the true hardness of their hearts. Their governments aren't going to save them, they should start looking to one who is more reliable.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Ideally, social justice should not be linked to Marxism in my opinion. Social justice as I would like it to be is about fairness and just equality. As it is in reality, it's not quite where I'd like it to be.

This discussion (I breezed thru it just now) reminds me why I tend to keep my politics separate from religion as much as I can. And at the same time I do try to apply the principles of my faith to how I vote.

Tricky business that.

 

[I Art Laughing]

Ideally, social justice should not be linked to Marxism in my opinion. Social justice as I would like it to be is about fairness and just equality. As it is in reality, it's not quite where I'd like it to be.

This discussion (I breezed thru it just now) reminds me why I tend to keep my politics separate from religion as much as I can. And at the same time I do try to apply the principles of my faith to how I vote.

Tricky business that.

Generally, I don't let Marxists off the hook when they try to play with language. When Obama speaks of social justice it is the Marxist version, Obamacare is Marxist in nature and is a reason for one that the Vatican chastised the nuns (as seen on the other thread) for being overly active in "social justice". If it walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's Marxism, and I don't really care if the Marxists take offense.

It is all materialism and it is all opposed to God. As I asked before, how many times have we seen there little game played out where they kill every believer they can get their hands on (when they get all the power they want) before we learn to resist them with the truth?

 

[JaneFW]

Obama is also the antiChrist. Don't forget that too.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Generally, I don't let Marxists off the hook when they try to play with language. When Obama speaks of social justice it is the Marxist version, Obamacare is Marxist in nature and is a reason for one that the Vatican chastised the nuns (as seen on the other thread) for being overly active in "social justice". If it walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's Marxism, and I don't really care if the Marxists take offense.

It is all materialism and it is all opposed to God. As I asked before, how many times have we seen there little game played out where they kill every believer they can get their hands on (when they get all the power they want) before we learn to resist them with the truth?

The fact that Marxism (which I do not associate myself with) and Christianity share some common pillars is problematic.

It is easy to label someone a Marxist when they may in fact be trying to promote their Christian values as they apply to policy.

I think social justice has become a catchphrase. I'm pretty sure many people that use it don't even realize it's full meaning. I didn't until fairly recently. To me, it's sort of like how the Tea Party folks dress like colonists when they should be dressing like Indians.

 

[Puptart]

Ideally, social justice should not be linked to Marxism in my opinion. Social justice as I would like it to be is about fairness and just equality. As it is in reality, it's not quite where I'd like it to be.

This discussion (I breezed thru it just now) reminds me why I tend to keep my politics separate from religion as much as I can. And at the same time I do try to apply the principles of my faith to how I vote.

Tricky business that.

Agreed.

Obama is also the antiChrist. Don't forget that too.

I lol'd Because reading through this entire thread, the whole thing sounds like nothing more than a big conspiracy theory deserving of a "there-there-dear" and a well-hidden roll of the eyes..

Which is why I find this statement particularly relevant Conspiracy this, conspiracy that.

 

[I Art Laughing]

Obama is also the antiChrist. Don't forget that too.

Nah, just the false prophet.

 

[I Art Laughing]

Agreed.




I lol'd Because reading through this entire thread, the whole thing sounds like nothing more than a big conspiracy theory deserving of a "there-there-dear" and a well-hidden roll of the eyes..

Which is why I find this statement particularly relevant Conspiracy this, conspiracy that.

And somehow we magically get to a place where everyone rich and poor gets to take the mark of the Beast, because no way is their anyone working to arrive at that end?

I read my Bible it says there is a conspiracy, no theory about it. Psalm 2.

Ragingvanity.wordpress.com

 

[JaneFW]

People have been forecasting the ending of the world since the beginning of the world. What seems to make it more likely to happen in 2012? Other than the fact that a non-white President is in power, I mean?

 

[I Art Laughing]

People have been forecasting the ending of the world since the beginning of the world. What seems to make it more likely to happen in 2012? Other than the fact that a non-white President is in power, I mean?

That doesn't mean it won't eventually come. Jesus warns us to observe the season. I don't know, the collapse of the Euro, cannabalism, war in Syria and escalation with Iran, global economic catastrophe, degradation of Western Civilization and the ending of the secular cycle (which started in the 50's)? We're heading for a season of crisis, maybe it's the end or maybe not, but judgement is coming soon. I wonder at people who can't seem to see the conditions on the ground, or even the ones who really believe all the of the "progress" propaganda.

Again, I would maybe take this as a valid criticism if I had not done so well with what the Lord has shown me thus far. I have always moved my money out of harms way in advance of the economic catastrophes, got my money out of the euro in time, out of stocks in time, bought my silver at $4.50 and my gold at $900. All of my ideas stem from the basic idea that things are getting worse and that investment is going to get me sheered in the long run. Listen to Dave Ramsey all you want, I think he's right about getting out of debt, if you stay in the stock market though you are going to get crushed (even more).

 

[JaneFW]

I'm not "in" the stock market, but nor am I running scared. Whatever the day is, God knows it, and He has a plan, and that's fine with me.

 

[I Art Laughing]

I'm not "in" the stock market, but nor am I running scared. Whatever the day is, God knows it, and He has a plan, and that's fine with me.

I'm not running scared, I'm preparing for what the Lord has shown me is coming. I certainly want to be among those that mourn, and sigh and cry, I'd rather have the seal of the Holy Spirit than be among those the Bible says are eating and drinking and marrying (as it was in the times of Noah).

What does a Godly nation look like to people? I'm thinking we're getting farther away from it and not nearer. I think people are getting more materialistic and less dependent on God, I see people pretending they can get through this life without its inevitable troubles. I see a nation so intent on avoiding pain that prescription pain pills, anti-anxiety and antidepressant use is pandemic. What are we numbing ourselves against? I see a nation literally papering over all it's woes as best it can with fictional, fiat currency and the debt achieving astronomically ridiculous proportions with no end in sight. The only end is a crash, people of their drugs, governments CEASING due to a lack of any reliable currency, chaos and anarchy. That sounds like judgement to me. Call me Chicken-little but I feel I'm in good company when I warn people about what should be as obvious as the nose on their face.

The believers in post-war China thought everything was going to continue on as it had, they were unprepared for what came next, most of them apostatized or died in despair, thinking that God had abandoned them. Judgement is coming, God won't abandon His sheep.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I'm not running scared, I'm preparing for what the Lord has shown me is coming. I certainly want to be among those that mourn, and sigh and cry, I'd rather have the seal of the Holy Spirit than be among those the Bible says are eating and drinking and marrying (as it was in the times of Noah).

What does a Godly nation look like to people? I'm thinking we're getting farther away from it and not nearer. I think people are getting more materialistic and less dependent on God, I see people pretending they can get through this life without its inevitable troubles. I see a nation so intent on avoiding pain that prescription pain pills, anti-anxiety and antidepressant use is pandemic. What are we numbing ourselves against? I see a nation literally papering over all it's woes as best it can with fictional, fiat currency and the debt achieving astronomically ridiculous proportions with no end in sight. The only end is a crash, people of their drugs, governments CEASING due to a lack of any reliable currency, chaos and anarchy. That sounds like judgement to me. Call me Chicken-little but I feel I'm in good company when I warn people about what should be as obvious as the nose on their face.

The believers in post-war China thought everything was going to continue on as it had, they were unprepared for what came next, most of them apostatized or died in despair, thinking that God had abandoned them. Judgement is coming, God won't abandon His sheep.

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. All I can say is ...

 

[JaneFW]

I'm not running scared, I'm preparing for what the Lord has shown me is coming. I certainly want to be among those that mourn, and sigh and cry, I'd rather have the seal of the Holy Spirit than be among those the Bible says are eating and drinking and marrying (as it was in the times of Noah).

What does a Godly nation look like to people? I'm thinking we're getting farther away from it and not nearer. I think people are getting more materialistic and less dependent on God, I see people pretending they can get through this life without its inevitable troubles. I see a nation so intent on avoiding pain that prescription pain pills, anti-anxiety and antidepressant use is pandemic. What are we numbing ourselves against? I see a nation literally papering over all it's woes as best it can with fictional, fiat currency and the debt achieving astronomically ridiculous proportions with no end in sight. The only end is a crash, people of their drugs, governments CEASING due to a lack of any reliable currency, chaos and anarchy. That sounds like judgement to me. Call me Chicken-little but I feel I'm in good company when I warn people about what should be as obvious as the nose on their face.

The believers in post-war China thought everything was going to continue on as it had, they were unprepared for what came next, most of them apostatized or died in despair, thinking that God had abandoned them. Judgement is coming, God won't abandon His sheep.

I think that everything you have posted here has been said for many hundreds of years. When have people not been materialistic? If there had been credit cards in the 15th century, people would have wanted them. That's just people. I really don't see the end in sight. Sorry. Not until/unless I actually see Jesus walk amongst us.

 

[I Art Laughing]

I think that everything you have posted here has been said for many hundreds of years. When have people not been materialistic? If there had been credit cards in the 15th century, people would have wanted them. That's just people. I really don't see the end in sight. Sorry. Not until/unless I actually see Jesus walk amongst us.

It turned out to be true for the Chinese Christians. So for hundreds of years of persecution it HAS been true. Just because we are living in a relative time of peace doesn't mean that it will continue indefinently.

 

[JaneFW]

It turned out to be true for the Chinese Christians. So for hundreds of years of persecution it HAS been true. Just because we are living in a relative time of peace doesn't mean that it will continue indefinently.

But I never said it would continue indefinitely. God has His hand on it. The Bible tells us so.