why so much hatred?

[ByTheSpirit]

Hey, sorry just wanted to get everyone's thoughts about why there are so many groups (Non-denoms, baptists, etc.) who vehemently denounce AG congregations and Pentecostals?
Now I understand there are some out there who make the denomination as a whole look bad, but don't all denominations have those? I mean Baptists have the Westboro Baptist Church (among others), most denominations now have the practice of ordaining homosexual ministers, the list goes on and on, but I have read several blogs/sites/opinions that Pentecostals are of the Devil and all that. I don't buy it, and am not posting this so someone can convince me of the Truth that lives within me.
I grew up in a Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, was heavily indoctrinated by them and even after being healed of chronic depression and anxiety more than a yr ago was trying to stay within my Baptist roots, but something was lacking and as I prayed about it, I was lead by the Holy Spirit to an Assemblies of God congregation.
I just would like everyone's opinion on these other groups who preach and teach that those of us who are baptized in the Holy Spirit are demon possessed. Any ideas?
(Understand I'm not trying to denomination bash anyone! I pray for those who are not like myself "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" that they may experience the blessedness of what empowers me also. So don't misunderstand what I'm asking here. Just would like to know what any of you have heard about "evil Pentecostalism" for general awareness.)

 

[Servent of Yeshua]

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For in one Spirit we were all baptized..."
EVERY believer in Christ is baptized in the Holy Spirit, otherwise, the believer cannot be saved (Romans 6:3-4 "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." 1 Peter 3:21-22 "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him." This cannot be true of water baptism, because water baptism does not save. Therefore, we are forced to conclude that this is Baptism of the Holy Spirit.)
The reason Pentecostals/Charismatics attract so much criticism is because they make bold claims and their worship is disorderly, they constantly breach scripture, such as 1 Corinthians 14 on at least a weekly basis. They also have a habit of persecuting Cessationists or people that don't agree with their doctrine in general and say others limit the Spirit or do not have the Spirit. Things such as falling down the Spirit are never found in the bible, since when did the Spirit start doing things the scripture doesn't promote? In fact, then they are touched and are "slain" - it is much how Leviticus describes a sin offering. Are people supposed to be a sin offering when they are slain in the Spirit? When people shake and what not, in the bible, this is often what happens when someone is possessed by a demon, never does this occur by being filled with the Spirit. When you can defend these things biblically, you might have a case to argue. As it is, these denominations make bold claims and put godly people down for not sharing their doctrine of secondary importance, which didn't actually exist until 1900. I myself have a Pentecostal mother, aunt and grandmother, all charismatic lol my theology is very different from theirs and often I "get it" from my mum, but it's all love so long as they're believers, so please don't hear me wrong, I do consider Pentecostals brothers (though ofc they have fake believers and wolves, as do every denomination) but I don't like their theology or their "style". I don't bash them though, just give my honest opinion when asked
Seriously weigh up what your church leaders say and try to find it in the word, ask why they and the congregation constantly breach 1 Corinthians 14, don't just listen to everything they say, often Pentecostals just say what "God is telling them" (what they feel) and don't back it up biblically (at least properly, they sometimes take scripture out of context).

 

[ByTheSpirit]

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For in one Spirit we were all baptized..."
EVERY believer in Christ is baptized in the Holy Spirit, otherwise, the believer cannot be saved (Romans 6:3-4 "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." 1 Peter 3:21-22 "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him." This cannot be true of water baptism, because water baptism does not save. Therefore, we are forced to conclude that this is Baptism of the Holy Spirit.)
The reason Pentecostals/Charismatics attract so much criticism is because they make bold claims and their worship is disorderly, they constantly breach scripture, such as 1 Corinthians 14 on at least a weekly basis. They also have a habit of persecuting Cessationists or people that don't agree with their doctrine in general and say others limit the Spirit or do not have the Spirit. Things such as falling down the Spirit are never found in the bible, since when did the Spirit start doing things the scripture doesn't promote? In fact, then they are touched and are "slain" - it is much how Leviticus describes a sin offering. Are people supposed to be a sin offering when they are slain in the Spirit? When people shake and what not, in the bible, this is often what happens when someone is possessed by a demon, never does this occur by being filled with the Spirit. When you can defend these things biblically, you might have a case to argue. As it is, these denominations make bold claims and put godly people down for not sharing their doctrine of secondary importance, which didn't actually exist until 1900. I myself have a Pentecostal mother, aunt and grandmother, all charismatic lol my theology is very different from theirs and often I "get it" from my mum, but it's all love so long as they're believers, so please don't hear me wrong, I do consider Pentecostals brothers (though ofc they have fake believers and wolves, as do every denomination) but I don't like their theology or their "style". I don't bash them though, just give my honest opinion when asked
Seriously weigh up what your church leaders say and try to find it in the word, ask why they and the congregation constantly breach 1 Corinthians 14, don't just listen to everything they say, often Pentecostals just say what "God is telling them" (what they feel) and don't back it up biblically (at least properly, they sometimes take scripture out of context).

Well I respect your opinion, but you do realize that the scripture you quote from 1 Corinthians 12 comes right in the middle of Paul teaching on spiritual gifts right? He was teaching the Corinthian church, who exercised spiritual gifts as listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, about their use which is why he tells them they had all been baptized in the Holy Spirit. Not all Christians are baptized in the Holy Spirit. All Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit, or indwelled if you will, but not baptized. How can you tell a believer is baptized? Well Jesus answers that. He told the disciples in Acts 1:5 that they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit which was the promise of the Father. That fulfillment came on the Day of Pentecost and what did the Day of Pentecost have in common with all other listings in Acts of Christians being filled with the Holy Spirit? They all spoke in tongues, which is a gift of the Holy Spirit as listed from the passage you quoted. So you actually supported Pentecostal doctrine without allowing yourself to admit it.

While I agree with you that some people use the name Pentecostal or Spirit filled to claim things of God that are not so, we shouldn't judge them or those who believe the way they do because of one or two bad apples. You wouldn't say all blacks, or whites are bad because the news at night runs a murder story in which the suspect is black or white would you? No, that would be silly because one or two doesn't make the whole bad. So to say all Charismatics are bad or at least misguided because of one or two false teachers/believers, is inaccurate I believe. Besides, don't all believers and denominations have inaccuracies? I mean we are all human still after all, just saved by grace.

What denomination are you if you don't mind me asking? Just curious to learn more about you, your views, maybe get a discussion going with you. God bless!

 

[Servent of Yeshua]

Lol... it says that we were all baptized into one Spirit, referring to all believers, because it says we were ALL baptized into ONE BODY. Are those who are not considered baptized in the Holy Spirit not part of the universal body of believers, or a different body? Christ has one Body, one Church. All believers are baptized in the Holy Spirit. The day of Pentecost is just when people were first baptized in the Spirit, because Christ had only just gone up, now it occurs upon conversion.

I noticed you didn't counter the other two quotes about it not being possible to be saved without baptism of the Holy Spirit or anything about the congregation breaching 1 Corinthians 14 constantly. Also the things about being slain in the Spirit not being found in scripture, but sounds like how sin offerings were made (so it's kind of creepy that they call it being SLAIN in the Spirit when sin offerings were SLAIN), people in the bible shaking due to demon possession, again not found when someone is full of the Spirit, etc. Answer these please, if you can't, don't let me pressure you, I'm not trying to lol I'm weary or being ungraceful, it's a problem I have, sorry if I come across that way, I don't try to be I'm young and we're particularly prone to get ungraceful and argumentative, so sorry if I come across like that, I'm doing this out of love be patient with me, God's not finished with me yet.

I didn't say all are bad in the sense of persecuting others and putting others down, I said their doctrine is bad, so yeah, I'd say they're all misguided in that sense, but again I'd like to point out that the issues in which they are misguided are secondary, and so I wouldn't go as far as to say others should break away from them, they have a lot of good, solid points on which they don't compromise (generally ofc, individuals may). I actually sometimes go to a Pentecostal Charismatic youth group, I know lots of great, godly Pentecostal Charismatics, I like the fellowship but I don't like the teaching there.

And you can tell someones denomination by hovering your mouse over the symbol next to their name near their nationality, etc I'm Presbyterian and I'm a Cessationist.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Ah, my bad about the denomination thing, with the icon under your screen name. I know that, but I've been up all night at work so I'm a bit slow right now. lol About your quotes of not being saved without the baptism in the Holy Spirit, you are correct. A believe is baptized BY the Holy Spirit at conversion into the Body of Christ, not baptized with the Holy Spirit. Two different events, as evidenced by the terminology used. But still the scripture you reference, 1 Corinthians 12:13 is referring to the Body of Christ and how it has different members, arms, legs, fingers, etc. and each member, though different in function and purpose, is purposeful for the whole.

1 Corinthians 12:12-20 (HCSB), "12 For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 14 So the body is not one part but many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I’m not a hand, I don’t belong to the body,” in spite of this it still belongs to the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I’m not an eye, I don’t belong to the body,” in spite of this it still belongs to the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed each one of the parts in one body just as He wanted. 19 And if they were all the same part, where would the body be? 20 Now there are many parts, yet one body."

That is where spiritual gifts come into the picture, which is why this scripture is right in the middle of the most profound teachings in scripture about spiritual gifts and there purpose in the Body of Christ. Each Spirit-filled Christian has spiritual gifts as the Holy Spirit distributes them to each. Even though one can minister divine healing, that doesn't mean they are more important than the one who interprets tongues, they all have their God anointed purposes.

When I was baptized in the Holy Spirit, I had none of those sensations. No slain in the Spirit, shakes or anything. What it derives from though is when the Holy Spirit falls upon the believer, in certain instances, He overwhelms their ability to control themselves, thus they fall to the ground. Just the same way as Speaking in Tongues is the initial evidence of Baptism in the Holy Spirit because the Word says in James 3:8 that no man can tame his tongue, so God, through the Holy Spirit controls it for the believer. Well controls is misleading, as the Holy Spirit does not force tongues on any believer who is Baptized in His presence. He provides the sounds and utterances to show them that God will do for us what we can not do ourselves, but will not do for us what we can do ourselves. I hope I have helped some. God bless you brother!

 

[Servent of Yeshua]

Yes it's talking about the body and its many parts, but there is one body and we're ALL baptized into it. Scripture makes no distinction between being baptized in, with or by the Holy Spirit, they are all used interchangeably, therefore you cannot be saved apart from it as shown by the verses. Also, in the verses I used from Romans, it says we were baptized INTO (this talking about saving us), and you said "When I was baptized IN the Holy Spirit..." etc, so you just destroyed your own argument with your terminology

Scripture does in fact teach that some gifts are greater than others, but that doesn't mean we should dismiss the lesser gifts. 1 Corinthians 12:28-31 " And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts."

That verse from James is referring to the lack of human self control, we praise God with our tongue and yet we curse people with it, the tongue is dangerous, it shouldn't be this way, our speech should be like fresh water, not salt/bitter water, etc. This is of no relation to the gift of tongues. Furthermore, being slain in the Spirit and shaking is not found in the scripture, but imitates being a sin offering and being demon possessed. Should we embrace unbiblical practises and say they are of the Spirit, even though they imitate demon possession, does the Spirit do things out of accordance with the word?

I'm kind of weary of posting all this, we're not supposed to debate on this thread and I'm not supposed to give differing theology because it's under a different denomination to mine :L I don't want to start saying stuff to get me in to trouble, I've just stated my opinion as you asked. God bless :]

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Nah, you're fine, I'm not going to continue our discussion. It was fun, and by no means am I trying to get any of us in trouble. I think we can all agree that we are saved by grace through faith and that our Lord and Savior will be returning soon to bring us home. Amen. God bless brother.

 

[Servent of Yeshua]

Amen, God bless :]

 

[brittany111]

Hey, sorry just wanted to get everyone's thoughts about why there are so many groups (Non-denoms, baptists, etc.) who vehemently denounce AG congregations and Pentecostals?
Now I understand there are some out there who make the denomination as a whole look bad, but don't all denominations have those? I mean Baptists have the Westboro Baptist Church (among others), most denominations now have the practice of ordaining homosexual ministers, the list goes on and on, but I have read several blogs/sites/opinions that Pentecostals are of the Devil and all that. I don't buy it, and am not posting this so someone can convince me of the Truth that lives within me.
I grew up in a Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, was heavily indoctrinated by them and even after being healed of chronic depression and anxiety more than a yr ago was trying to stay within my Baptist roots, but something was lacking and as I prayed about it, I was lead by the Holy Spirit to an Assemblies of God congregation.
I just would like everyone's opinion on these other groups who preach and teach that those of us who are baptized in the Holy Spirit are demon possessed. Any ideas?
(Understand I'm not trying to denomination bash anyone! I pray for those who are not like myself "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" that they may experience the blessedness of what empowers me also. So don't misunderstand what I'm asking here. Just would like to know what any of you have heard about "evil Pentecostalism" for general awareness.)

I am a charismatic Non-denominational Christian. I have been baptized in the Spirit and yet when in high school a friend of mine's pennocostal youth pastor pretty much told me I would be condemed because I was baptized in the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" and not in "Jesus Name." The denomention fight goes so many directions.

But I am with you. I really don't understand the fight over whose right or wrong. These are docterinal issues, when what really matters is that Jesus as fullly man and fully God died and rose again as the only way to the Father. That's what matters and that's what we need to focus on as we worship, witness and love others together.

"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:35

 

[ByTheSpirit]

You know, the saddest thing about all this is people teach doctrinal conformity. Meaning if someone doesn't believe exactly the way they do in all doctrines they will go to Hell, not Heaven, no matter what else they believe. Oneness Pentecostals, some Independent Baptist congregations (I grew up in one), etc. I'm sure the list is long. Those people shipwreck the faith of so many by their bigotry it is unreal, and they will have to answer for that on the day of Judgment. If I remember correctly Jesus taught that those who teach people to disobey certain commands, or that the doctrines of men were more important/just as important than the commands of God would answer for that on the day of Judgment. All we can do really is pray for those and that the Lord would enlighten them that most doctrines, not all, but most are manmade and thus should be examined for accuracy, not denounced because of some disagreement. The Word plainly says we are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves, and as far as I know, Pentecostals, Baptists, Methodists, etc. will all be in Heaven if they follow this simple command.

 

[brittany111]

You know, the saddest thing about all this is people teach doctrinal conformity. Meaning if someone doesn't believe exactly the way they do in all doctrines they will go to Hell, not Heaven, no matter what else they believe. Oneness Pentecostals, some Independent Baptist congregations (I grew up in one), etc. I'm sure the list is long. Those people shipwreck the faith of so many by their bigotry it is unreal, and they will have to answer for that on the day of Judgment. If I remember correctly Jesus taught that those who teach people to disobey certain commands, or that the doctrines of men were more important/just as important than the commands of God would answer for that on the day of Judgment. All we can do really is pray for those and that the Lord would enlighten them that most doctrines, not all, but most are manmade and thus should be examined for accuracy, not denounced because of some disagreement. The Word plainly says we are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves, and as far as I know, Pentecostals, Baptists, Methodists, etc. will all be in Heaven if they follow this simple command.

 

[Tee_w]

[FONT=Palatino Linotype, serif]I guess one of the reasons there is so much division amongst Christians is because there is a lot of bad or toxic religion out there. Which in my view is probably a symptom of of people who are really messed up on the inside. [/FONT]


[FONT=Palatino Linotype, serif]I remember once hearing of a testimony of a man who was exclusive, he would only go through one church door and no others – he thought just about everyone else was wrong – until a certain Pastor I know explained to him that it was satan who was behind this hatred and division in the church.[/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino Linotype, serif]The man was then prayed for and he went stiff and demon started to manifest itself and lodged in his throat for a moment before it made its exit.[/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype, serif] The man latter said, “ I would not have believed it if hadn't happened to me.”[/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype, serif] The Pastor then said, “ Well who do you think is trying to divide the body of Christ.”

Blessings,
Tee
[/FONT]

 

[Vince53]

Onlybygrace, after I accepted Christ, I began attending an independent fundamental Baptist church, and although my wife and I faithfully attend an AOG church (and we love it) we are still IFBs.

There is no one reason why a small number of born-again saints are hostile to the AOG. During the Pentecostal revival of the 1960's, many fundamental churches were torn apart by charismatics who tried to seize control of the church. Others have seen genuine lunacy in charismatics and think that all charismatics act that way. Others remember the Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker scandals.

The AOG church that my wife and I attend here in Mexico has solid, helpful Bible teaching, aggressive soul-winning, and holy living. The congregation is Godly and kindly, and we love it here.

 

[tturt]

You know some people say that they won't become believers because they perceive Yahweh as angry and mean. Each person has an image of Yahweh and of course it varies per person and people have an image of what a believer looks like as well. So when a believer does something that goes against that image, pride comes center stage. It just doesn't take that much for someone including believers to be offended especially in a religious setting or context. I've seen one amen spoken during a church service to cause other believers to be upset. Their image of how a believer should behave was violated.

Also more often these days we're being accused - even on these forums - of having the Kundalini mind state. Guess they don't know for there to be false, there has to be an authentic.

What's entertaining to me is usually a portion of their discussion includes their opinions on whether we're really believers or not.

Because of the criticism, I try to use it as a lesson learned and when others are criticized for what they believe, I try to offer them grace.

I know that we love Yahweh and His Word and I encourage each one to be strong in Him.

 

[Humble Pie]

... but I have read several blogs/sites/opinions that Pentecostals are of the Devil and all that..

They're not of the devil unless they distort scripture.

 

[CrossWorks]

When I first was saved 17 years ago, I was attending a Evangelical Church at the time. Some friends we knew invited us to their church and of course my wife and I both being new believers had no idea what a Pentecostal church looked like. And having come out of the Catholic Church, and into an Evangelical, it really was not a "shock" transition for us, because we both wanted to know more of the bible and got that at our first church. However our friends church was Pentecostal and of course the raising of the hands and vocal expressions of love to the Lord were obviously prevalent and also speaking in tongues during our first visit.

Although at first is was a bit shocking, all I knew is that in this church there was life! Folks were very loving, seemed joyous in the Lord and just wanted to express their love for him. Needless to say, it wasn't but a few weeks later we join their church.

Now having attended the Pentecostal church for some time, I do agree on one thing. It is easy for the flesh to take control of what people do. Many of the churches I attended over the years as a Pentecostal I found to be somewhat over zealous. Although I do believe that the Holy Spirit certainly is at work more so in our churches than I feel most.

For me it's all about abiding in Him. It's also about allowing the Holy Spirit to work in our lives. I do believe that the enemy if given an open door, "will" take hold of one's thoughts and in some cases people are dealing with a spiritual force not so much within them, but within the third realm where spiritual battles DO take place. [That is scriptural] I also believe that people can be under control of the "Strongman", which in some cases does require deliverance.

I normally am not influenced to mimic the behaviors of those who roll on the floor and or gyrate. However, during my walk I have experienced moments that I can not explain and attribute it only to the Holy Spirit at work in me.

There are a few verses that I have taken a hold of and I try to adhere to daily and they are:

#1. John 15:4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me."

#2. 1John 2:2 "By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments."

#3. Col 3:23-24 "Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve."

#4. 1John 2:28 "Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming."

And finally, I strongly believe that if I walk my walk by taking hold of these words and many more that I haven't posted, then when the Lord does come, I will not hear the following as many professing Christians will;

Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Whether I'm Pentecostal or not, it does not matter. What really matters is, regardless of your denomination, how you walk, talk, think, believe, and abide with and in the Lord, truly determines your future. I am not one who subscribes to the "once saved always saved" mentality. That can be easily debunked in scripture and Hebrews 6 is a good place to start.

Love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul and I believe you'll be on the right path.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Well the big thing I was trying to get at with the initial question and discussion was, John says quite plaining that if you hate your brothers or sisters in Christ then you can not have the Holy Spirit residing within you and you are no better than a murderer. (1 John 3:15) I used to, at a very early stage in the faith hold a grudge against those who told me I was "demon-possessed" because I am Baptized in the Holy Spirit. Now, I pity them and pray for them. Why on Earth would any child of God refuse such a tremendous blessing and gift? If it is solely because "some Pentecostals are wacko's or corrupt" then that person is in a sad state of faith. Many unbelievers refuse to believe in Christ for that very reason, I've heard it hundreds of times, "I know x amount of Christians who are horrible people, why would I want what they have?" So if you are Spirit-filled, pray for them all with me. If we, meaning all Christians, could be filled and baptized in the Holy Spirit's fire then wow, what a change the world would experience indeed! Amen

 

[hopeinGod]

In Ephesians 4, Paul wrote of two types of unity. One is the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace (verse 3), which we have witnessed in this thread between brothers in the faith who disagree doctrinally.

The other is the unity of the faith (verse 13), which, unlike the first, is based on knowledge. It is this unity that has not yet come to pass, where all brethren will be in doctrinal agreement and speak the same things.

There were two men, Hymeneaus and Philetus (2 Tim. 2:17), who were tellling church members that the resurrection had passed already, which had the effect of overthrowing the faith of some. Nevertheless, we are told, the FOUNDATION of the Lord stands sure (2 Tim. 2:19). In other words, resurrection of the dead has something to do with a foundation. But, what foundation?

We find it in Hebrews 6, made up of six principles of the oracles of God: repentance from dead works, faith toward God, the doctrine of baptisms, the laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. These are the truths upon which we aid in God's forming of a strong Chrisitian foundation within our minds. They are not learned in an afternoon, but take dedicated study to understand well. Sadly, however, much of the church today is not being taught well through systematic study, but are being led by a sort of shotgun blasting through sermons.

Within the doctrine of baptism is found the Trinity, which is threefold. We also are threefold (spirit, soul and body), God's working in us is threefold (justification, sancitification and glorification) and baptisms are threefold (Spirit, water and blood) found here:

1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Spirit baptism is to empower the soul to be a witness (Acts 1:8), to impart understanding (John 16:13), to help change me inwardly as it works in combination with the Word (sanctification), and to give spiritual gifts.

Blood baptism is the shedding of blood for the remission of sins known as justification.

Water baptism is for the body, a pronouncement of separation from the world and eventual, complete putting on of incorruption known as glorification.

So we have three baptisms for the threefold man, each with a purpose within the threefold plan of salvation. Justification is the release from the penalty of sin. Sanctification is for the overcoming of the power of sin. And, glorification will take place in the day when we are delivered from the very presence of sin.

 

[Jethro99]

I've usually heard it the other way round. After about 15 years in a Pentecostal church I've heard "bashing" of other denominations from both congregation and pulpit on occasion. I'm sure bashing of Pentecostals goes on to - I just haven't been as exposed to it.

For what its worth - there is an old joke that may apply. It can be told several ways. It goes....

A man gets to Heaven and St. Peter is showing him around. The man notices a walled off section and says, "What's in there?"

St. Peter says, "Oh, that's where we put the [ insert a Christian denomination here ] they like to think they are the only ones that made it up here."

 

[Laura Phillips]

no they are not possessed by the devil.
They are possessed by the holy spirit.
which is much better.