• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Why so much conservative hostility towards undocumented immigrants?

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by compassion 4 humanity, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired)

    +3,369
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Others
    The Abrahamic promises, as handed down to the descendants of Manasseh (as described in the tenets of British Israelism).
     
  2. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

    +3,576
    Canada
    Catholic
    Private
    CA-Greens
    That was already done by Reagan in the 80's.
    Far from stopping the flow of illegal immigration, it encouraged the illegal immigrants to come in at an even faster rate. There was now some hope that once they make it out of the hands of the coyotes, as long as they were willing to play the waiting game, their efforts will eventually be rewarded with legitimacy. That made the risk a rational choice.

    If people really cared, they would find ways to stop the flow. But all in all, illegal immigration is working out quite well for the American upper and middle classes. Calling conservatives who want immigration to be legal hypocrites and bigots gives white America a sense of clemency for 'stealing the land of the red man and the Mexican', and it is nice to save money on the products provided by cheap illegal labor for sure.
     
  3. Brotherly Spirit

    Brotherly Spirit Member

    243
    +161
    Christian
    Single
    Agree with much said after my last post. Different points were brought to the discussion, highlighting there's more to it than this or that. Many factors affect why we get immigration, and specifically illegal immigration. Firstly the disparity of living standards and opportunities versus elsewhere; secondly the difficulty of going through the legal process versus otherwise; thirdly the truth of convenience socially, economically, and politically.

    So I don't believe a top-down or carefree approach would work. We can't people-proof the law to have all blindly adhere to it, or ignorantly (worse pretend) it's simple to solve when it involves people and complicated circumstances. Multiple efforts across the board are needed for a viable solution, not necessarily perfect as it's humanly impossible. This includes willing to extend a hand for example to Mexico; only by diplomacy and trade can we improve life for both sides, whether it's standard of living or rule of law (Including social and fairness concerns).
     
  4. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

    +1,128
    Pentecostal
    So you are for open borders then?
     
  5. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

    +1,128
    Pentecostal
    We live in a world where conquest is how anyone had a hold on anything. There is NO nation on this Earth that wasn't founded on someone conquering someone else. All of humanity is guilty of that.

    The reality is all nations have borders. How they got them is irrelevant because all are guilty. We live with what we have.

    I am guessing you are an open borders person and believe in open borders for all countries for people to come and go as they wish. Am I right?
     
  6. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

    +661
    Christian
    Married
    Conquerers respect no borders.

    I'm not especially worked up by a peaceful migration of workers ...
     
  7. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

    +3,576
    Canada
    Catholic
    Private
    CA-Greens
    It is a valid question.
    Do you ever recall getting an answer to that question before?
    It kind of gets skipped over most of the times I see it being asked.
     
  8. PloverWing

    PloverWing Episcopalian

    745
    +698
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    Conservatives are right in saying there should be a screening process for prospective immigrants. They are probably also right that we need limits on how many immigrants we can welcome in a given year; if, say, 100 million people wanted to enter the US in a single year, that would probably be more than we could absorb into our country and culture all at once. But I would like to see the procedures and restrictions changes so that we could welcome more immigrants per year than we do now, with full legal status.

    In my ideal world, I envision the process of legal immigration as being similar to getting a driver's license. Prospective drivers are screened (through driving courses and driver's tests) to help ensure that they will be safe drivers. But most people who want a driver's license are able to get one within a few years; we don't have a backlog of thousands of people driving without licenses because they were unable to get a license. It's not a perfect analogy, because there's no exact counterpart to the driver's test for immigrants; it would be a background check for criminal records and so on. Still, the principle is that most people who want to enter the US should be able to.

    So, not completely open borders, but a border that's much easier to cross legally.
     
  9. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired)

    +3,369
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Others
    We should only allow what we can assimilate. Many come here with no intention of assimilating, regarding America as a big ATM. They establish no roots, keep to themselves, and send vast amounts of money out of the country.

    Sadly our immigration policies have been based largely on idealism rather than realism. Hopefully that will change under Trump.
     
  10. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

    +3,576
    Canada
    Catholic
    Private
    CA-Greens
    Random thoughts?
     
  11. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

    +1,128
    Pentecostal
    You see that is a process. And I agree that the immigration process is far too complex, difficult and expensive. However, that does not mitigate the fact that even you recognize the need for laws and for screening. The problem is not immigrants. The problem is immigrants who break the law and come here illegally. I too welcome immigrants. I would have no problem with having immigrants moving in next to me or whatever. Who cares? I just want them to be here legally and to have gone through the process just as I did and my family did.
     
  12. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

    +1,128
    Pentecostal
    So you are for open borders then?
     
  13. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

    +1,128
    Pentecostal
    Yes, I have rarely gotten an answer when I ask the question.
     
  14. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

    +661
    Christian
    Married
    No, however, I do think that it is hypocritical to ALLOW millions of migrant workers to cross the border "illegally" (as was the case during past Republican and Democratic administrations), ... and then, at some later point, decide that you want to ship them all back.

    For me, a "law" which is not enforced ... is not a "real" law. And the "illegals" were ALLOWED to cross the southern border ... to provide cheap labor for the American farm industry.

    Deciding to send them back now ... smacks of hypocrisy.
     
  15. SoldierOfTheKing

    SoldierOfTheKing Christian Spenglerian

    +1,307
    United States
    Presbyterian
    Engaged
    Is a country allowed to realize it's made a mistake. When it does, should it not do what it can to correct that mistake?
     
  16. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

    +661
    Christian
    Married
    So ... you have ALLOWED people to cross your borders with the promise of a BETTER LIFE, and a HOPE for participation in the AMERICAN DREAM ... so that you can USE THEM to provide cheap labor.

    Then ... you decide to SEND THEM BACK when you have gotten all that you wanted out of them.

    That actually smacks of a con.

    I don't think that God would look favorably upon such a thing.
     
  17. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired)

    +3,369
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Others
    Kinda like the State Patrol suddenly deciding to enforce the posted speed limit after allowing 10 mph over, just because of an increase in crashes.
     
  18. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

    +661
    Christian
    Married
    ... or a change in political fortunes ...
     
  19. SoldierOfTheKing

    SoldierOfTheKing Christian Spenglerian

    +1,307
    United States
    Presbyterian
    Engaged
    Because their entry into the US was illegal, they can't legitimately claim to have been promised anything. Even were it not, it is understood that countries permit foreign nationals inside their borders an their own discretion - they may be asked to leave at any time. Citizens alone have a right to be in the country.
     
  20. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

    +661
    Christian
    Married
    Leviticus 19:34

    The foreigner who resides with you must be to you like a native citizen among you; so you must love him as yourself, because you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
     
Loading...