Why so little healing where we can see it?

[LinkH]

I look at the old videos of the healing preachers of the 50's and 60's like Jack Coe, Oral Roberts, and A.A. Allen, and they line people up and minister to them right in front of the audience. If someone gets healed, you can see their reaction, and may be able to see something physically that indicates they are healed, like that old Allen video of the boy with the dishrag arm that is healed.

Nowadays, it seems like the Benny Hinn style is a lot more popular. Pray for the audience, have the audience pray for themselves, command some things, call out a few words, and then have people come up on stage to tell of healings which no one saw with their own eyes. I'm not saying that's bad, necessarily. It does bother me a bit when the preacher says, "What did you feel go through you?" instead of asking "Could you walk without that wheelchair when you came in?" If the person feels heat or a chill, it could have been because they were sitting underneath a vent.

Anyway, I remember Paul doing a miracle right in front of a crowd. No doubt, people saw Jesus perform many miracles.

Why don't we see a lot of people ministering healing in front of audiences nowadays? Am I the only one who prefers this method? Isn't part of the purpose of signs so that unbelievers can see?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Benny Hinn style"

Benny's "Style" is actually Kathryn Kuhlman's "Style" - since he sees himself as the "continuation" of her ministry.

Calling 'em up AFTER they're healed is a LOT less "dangerous", of course - PARTICULARLY when the cameras are rolling -

 

[LinkH]

Bob,

Hi, nice to see you here.

I noticed that about Hinn copying Kuhlman's style. He certainly did with the music in the background, the melodramatic speaking style, the type of music, and that sort of thing. I haven't seen enough clips of Kuhlman to know that she brought people up after their healing, but that doesn't surprise me. I was thinking of mentioned the Hinn copied Kuhlman in my message, but I didn't know about her bringing people up on stage like Hinn does.

 

[Biblicist]

With regard to much of the Full Gospel church here in Austalia, many congregations have long adopted the now discredited 'seeker-sensitive' approach which was promoted by Bill Hybels; now that he is in decline we tend to use the term contemporary services which means that many of our congregations hold meetings that are no longer designed for the believer but the unbeliever.

About five years ago even the AOG sent around a circular 'suggesting' that they do not utilse tongues in their meetings. I'm not sure that the AOG in Australia is truly Full Gospel anymore and they even changed their name to the Australian Christian Churches about 10 years ago.

If they are not happy with the Spirit speaking through the believer in this way I can hardly see how their meetings would be all that conducive to allowing the Spirit to heal individuals.

Since the demise of the Charismatic Renewal by the early 80's, we seem to have a generation of church leaders who have had little if any experience or exposure to the ministry of the Spirit; so the rather obvious lack of healings within many Western congregations should sadly be of little surprise.

At least within the Australian church scene, most 'Full Gospel' churches are merely that in name and simply act as if they were Evangelical.

 

[LinkH]

Biblicist,

Here in the US, the AOG has a bit of variety of styles-- maybe not that much. In some congregations, tongues are quite rare, and you wouldn't be able to tell it from another evangelical church. I don't think all of them have done that.

 

[Biblicist]

Here in the US, the AOG has a bit of variety of styles-- maybe not that much. In some congregations, tongues are quite rare, and you wouldn't be able to tell it from another evangelical church. I don't think all of them have done that.

Thanks for your info.

Even though I have heard much the same over recent years it never really excites me to hear it confirmed as it simply means that this development seems to be fairly common within many Western Full Gospel congregations.

 

[lismore]

I think it's linked to a decline in preaching the gospel.

And as said above more and more people in charismatic and pentecostal churches are not charismatic or pentecostal. Many are not even saved.

My time at AOG, I have to testify before God that with honourable exceptions most speakers were not preaching the gospel or even a bible based message. I have heard several AG speakers who do not read from the bible at all.

Paul was preaching the gospel at a place and saw that a man had the faith to be healed. How can we expect faith for healing when pastors are just teaching psycho-babble?

No word= no faith=no healing

 

[Jedi.Kep]

I think it's linked to a decline in preaching the gospel.

And as said above more and more people in charismatic and pentecostal churches are not charismatic or pentecostal. Many are not even saved.

My time at AOG, I have to testify before God that with honourable exceptions most speakers were not preaching the gospel or even a bible based message. I have heard several AG speakers who do not read from the bible at all.

Paul was preaching the gospel at a place and saw that a man had the faith to be healed. How can we expect faith for healing when pastors are just teaching psycho-babble?

No word= no faith=no healing

Amen to that. God confirms His Word with signs following. No signs means the Word isn't being preached. Pretty simple there.

 

[lismore]

Amen to that. God confirms His Word with signs following. No signs means the Word isn't being preached. Pretty simple there.

Yes. Here is a good example from the book of Acts:

In Lystra there sat a man crippled in his feet, who was lame from birth and had never walked. He listened to Paul as he was speaking. Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had faith to be healed and called out, Stand up on your feet! At that, the man jumped up and began to walk.


(Acts 14:8-10).

Not meaning it badly, but when I hear some of the dross being preached in churches it is no wonder there is a famine of power in the church.

 

[whatfor]

I have seen both used in our church, usually the aproach of getting the congregation to pray for those near them was to show that it was not for the special people to pray but that we can all pray for the sick.
My wife went to a pentecostal church that did no ministry because they did not want to scare the new people.

 

[Jedi.Kep]

I have seen both used in our church, usually the aproach of getting the congregation to pray for those near them was to show that it was not for the special people to pray but that we can all pray for the sick.
My wife went to a pentecostal church that did no ministry because they did not want to scare the new people.

Unbelievable. Lord deliver us!

 

[Usernametaken]

Why does it need an audience? Why aren't people healing in homes, streets and markets places?

Our church has had people healed all over, just last week in a WalMart in Moore. We need to take our eyes off the pulpit and bring this Gospel to the streets.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What we have to realise is that although God is able and willing to heal the sick, instant healing is by no means automatic. If it was, there would have been no instances in the Gospels when Jesus did not heal everyone. He healed only one person at the pool of Bethseda when there were many sick people there. He must have passed the Gate Beautiful many times while the lame man was there begging, but He never healed him. That was left to Peter and John. Jesus could not heal many people in His home town because of their unbelief.

Jesus said that He could do nothing of Himself. He did only what the Father was doing. So, when the Father wanted to heal sick people, Jesus was then able to heal them. He was totally dependent on the Holy Spirit to perform miracles because He had agreed with the Father to lay aside His divine attributes when He was incarnated, and only received them back when He sat down at the right hand of the Father after His ascension. So, while He was on earth, He depended on the same Holy Spirit whom we depend on; with the difference that He did it a lot better than us.

Jesus said that we cannot do anything without Him. So, healing is up to His sovereign will. If we pray for a person and they are not healed it is because Jesus has not decided to heal that person for reasons only known to Himself. He would have good reason not to heal someone, because healing is something He does naturally out of his compassionate nature. He is always able and willing to heal, but there are hindrances and reasons why He does not heal every time.

Unbelief could be a factor, but not always in the individual. He has healed people who did not demonstrate any faith. A whole church movement or denomination could be unbelieving and cessationist, so Jesus would not be able to heal anyone in those churches, not matter how willing and able he is to heal them.

Sin could be another factor. Wrong relationships, unforgiveness, lack of honouring of parents, and all sorts of other garbage could prevent healing.

Demonisation could be another factor. Many people are healed after being delivered of a demon influence in their lives.

You may not be the right person to pray for the sick one. God may want to use someone else to bring healing to that person.

It may not be the right time for that person to be healed. Jesus demonstrated through a healing of a man who had been blind from birth. He said that the blindness was there until the time of healing so that God would be glorified by the healing.

The healing of the lame man by Peter and John caused 5000 new converts for Christ.

It may be that God is wanting to use a particular doctor to bring about the healing through medical intervention.

The practice of some Pentecostal groups that teach that people should not go to the doctor can cause unnecessary suffering and even early death. These groups teach that it is a lack of faith to go to the doctor. This is wrong. Faith is using all the resources that are available to us to being healing.

We have to accept that death is sometimes the ultimate healing for a person.

When we pray for someone, we are putting our dependence on a sovereign God. Therefore we can pray with freedom and not have to take the blame for when a person is not healed. The sick person doesn't have to take the blame either.

John Wimber prayed for thousands of sick people and his statistics told him that only 25% got instantly healed, and most of them were in the evangelistic context. 50% had different rates of improvement in their condition, and 25% were never healed and they were cured either by medicine or they died.

Jesus is the potter and we are the clay. We do not tell our God what He is to do. That would be pride and arrogance. But putting our faith in the hands of God to do whatever He wants according to His will, has to cause a major positive difference in a person's life whether he or she gets healed or not.

After learning this, I have a lot more confidence in praying for the sick, and even developing a healing ministry, because the fear of failure has been removed from me, and I can put my trust in a sovereign God who loves us and wants the best for us.

Oh, by the way, don't believe any of that rubbish about sickness as a way of Christians bearing their cross of suffering. The Scripture does not teach that. Scriptural suffering is about persecution, not sickness.

It is amusing to me to hear of a "spiritual" Christian holding forth that their sickness is their special cross that they are bearing for God to teach them how to come closer to Him, and yet they are rushing down to the doctor's surgery to get medicine or to the hospital for an operation to get cured.

Absolute nonsense and hyprocrisy.

 

[K2K]

God thru Moses said that if His people would harken to HIs voice He would heal their land. In Nazareth, He said He couldn't do great miracles there because of their disbelief, but He still layed hand on a few and healed them.

So does healing by the laying on of hands or healing by calling out what you hear the Lord tell you take more faith?

The Lord has asked me to pray for healing for people about a dozen times, and when I did I saw Him heal them. Each case was a bit different, from swealling going down right under my hand to finding out a month later that the person I prayed for had gone home and didn't have any pain after that.

I find it a lot easier to get myself to pray for someone to be healed when the Lord tells me to, than to just annouce that they are being healed because the Lord told me to announce it. That requires a lot more faith!!

We need to remember that it is not us, nor the person on stage running a healing service the does the healing. The Lord does the healing, but it take a portion of faith on our part. Benny Hinn hears from the Lord and does what the Lord tells him, and I have seen about 500 people get up and come forward to testify about how God healed them at that time. I have also seen people come up with the person heal, and Benny get a word from the Lord that the other person also needs some healing and God heal that person right then. All that is incredible. Benny Hinn has alot more faith than I do.

That is to say, it takes alot of faith to stand on stage in front of thousands, hear the small voice of the Lord tell you that He is going to heal people at that moment, make the announcement based upon those thoughts that you have come to believe are God's and not yours. It would be alot easier to just ask people to form a line up front and pray for them. Then even if nobody got healed by God, you could at least feel ok and not so embarrassed because you never actually said someone was going to get healed at that time, but had only told them to come forward for prayer.

So what's the conclusion? Listen to the Lord and try to believe. Then when He asks you to pray for someone and if He heals them right underneath your hands, then you will see the expression on their face. If He heals them on the way home after you prayed for them, you might still find out later. If you get really good at listening to Him and believing, perhaps He will have you running a healing line, and if you get more faith still, then perhaps He will have you just annoucing to the people what He is going to do.

Perhaps we might perfer that God heals people the way we want Him to, but He perfers to heal people because they have decided to have faith that He is there to be heard from, so listen!

Faith comes from hearing, and hearing is something that we have to be willing to do.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

God thru Moses said that if His people would harken to HIs voice He would heal their land. In Nazareth, He said He couldn't do great miracles there because of their disbelief, but He still layed hand on a few and healed them.

So does healing by the laying on of hands or healing by calling out what you hear the Lord tell you take more faith?

I enjoyed reading this post because it is another good testimony of the healing power of Christ acting in response to faith.

What hindered my confidence in the past about praying for sick people is the teaching I was exposed to while I was with the Pentecostal church in the 1970s. There were a lot of big name healing evangelists who taught that if sick people came forward in their meetings they would definitely be healed. When they were not healed, these people were accused of not having enough faith. The teaching these men gave implied that if a person had enough faith, instant healing would automatically follow.

The actual experience of most people was that instant healing did not automatically follow. There were some people miraculously healed, and this was usually in the context of evangelism and caused many to come to Christ, but it did not seem to be the normal experience of most converted Christians in their local churches.

I heard a conversation about healing from a prominent healing minister, and he expressed frustration and puzzlement about why so very few people experienced instant healing. He said that at one stage, most of the people he prayed for, died!

What I have discovered, after years of seeking God about it, is that although we are instructed to pray for the sick, and that Jesus is willing and able to heal sick people, we have absolutely no control over whether a person is healed instantly or not. It doesn't seem to matter how much faith a person has, if the power of the Holy Spirit is not present to heal, then that person will not be healed. Of course, this is answered by Jesus telling us, "Without Me, you can do nothing.". Faith is not a tangible commodity. It is merely believing God's Word. So, we can believe God's Word implicitly, and yet, if the power of the Holy Spirit is not present to heal, healing will not take place, and there is nothing we can do about it.

What I came to understand are two things:

1. God is absolutely sovereign, and He is the one who decides who will be healed instantly and who will not. And He is not obligated to justify Himself by giving us any reason for His decision.

2. There are things that hinder healing, such as unforgiveness, lack of honouring parents, unconfessed sins of the flesh, demonic influence, unrejected occult involvement (ie: even reading a horoscope and taking it seriously can hinder healing), generational involvement in the occult, generational curses, and the list goes on.)

So the path to instant healing is not as straighforward as some people think. If a person is prayed for and not instantly healed, then we need to counsel the person to determine whether there are hindrances (listed under point 2), and/or if the person needs deliverance of some kind before healing can take place.

If the Holy Spirit does not reveal any actual hindrances and the person does not experience instant healing, then all we can do is to put them in the hands of Jesus, to do what seems good for Him to do for that person at that time.

What gave me confidence to pray for sick people is that I feel no longer responsible if the person is not healed. So I can say quite freely that there is no guarantee of instant healing, avoiding the expectation of instant healing that might bring heartbreak and disillusionment if it does not happen. I can pray confidently for a sick person and place them in the hands of our sovereign God, so that if He decides not to heal instantly, He has some other way of bringing healing to the sick person.

I don't think it is a lack of faith to put the sick person into the hands of God with no guarantee of instant healing. I think that being totally dependent on God to make the decision is the strongest faith a person can have.

To give people guarantees of instant healing is presumption (which is sin), and not faith. The insistence some healing evangelists for people to automatically expect instant healing has caused immeasurable damage to the healing ministry and has destroyed the faith of thousands and have bred a horde of skeptics who once had faith in Christ, but are not skeptics and agnostics. There are hundreds of good people who are now cursing the Pentecostal movement because of the baseless promises of instant healing and an ignoring of the sovereignty of God regarding healing.

There have been needless deaths because of the insistence on people keeping away from doctors and hospitals in the belief that it is a sin not to hold strongly to instant healing when sickness strikes. It is especially grievious when parents have allowed their children to die because of their presumptuous belief and rejection of the medical profession.

I firmly believe that Jesus is able and willing to heal sick people instantly. When I pray for people, instant healing is my preferred outcome. But I know that God is sovereign, and I fully acknowledge that and thank Him whether the person is healed instantly or not.

 

[tobethebest]

Much of the past doesn't exist anymore. It's as if God isn't in favor of all the "revivals" and reasons for raising funds for the churches, prosperity doctrines, and such. How many wealthy evangelists do you know? I could name a dozen off the top of my head. Anyone with any sense would know the money should be primarily for paying the bills. That's why some churches have revivals, to pay it's church workers...............My brother and I used to evangelize the beaches, walk along the water and share Christ. Not too many were saved, but more than some churches I'll bet........There is so little "demonstation of the power of Holy Spirit" as it was in the 70's, tp my liking. Remember the "growing out of limbs" back in the 70's and 80's? One leg shorter than the other was a staple back then........I felt something in my leg when Bill Smith prayed for the lengthening of my left leg. Bill said he saw it happening right in front of his eyes. And the things that occurred at Kathryn Kuhlman's meetings were off the charts. I felt the wind of the Spirit of God flood that arena, it swept past where I was standing as an usher. Whoooooosh and I wanted to follow it to heaven!! It didn't matter a bit if that would have happened. Standing there, in my 20's, fairly healthy at the time, I was absorbed in the presence of the Holy Spirit. I cried standing there. I experienced a rush of the power of God like no church meeting I ever attend then or since........Where did it go? Why is this country determined to be "liberal", why are our politicians driven to deny Christ? Why do they feel that gov't has a right to "control" people, take away their rights to bear arms, to deny the use of God's name. Roosevelt used to pray during his fireside chats. Schools used to have prayer in the mornings before classes. Now the liberals are sending God a message that He is tired of listening to. Wherever God planted Himself, I'd love to be there. My wife has needed healing for close to a decade now.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I am sorry to report this troops but I have determine that all of the foot wounds of our soldiers has been by "friendly" fire. IOW we are shooting ourselves in the foot!
We (apart from WoF) are not following Bible principles
There are two ways of healing -by:
1) operation of the gift of healings
2) by faith
The gift of healings is what we see usually in evangelical meetings where God wants to reveal His presence as a sign to the believer. This is much like the one who gets healed at the pool when the Holy Spirit lands on the water. Unfortunately most believe only for healing this way and might find themselves waiting at the pool all their believing life.
Healing by faith is quite different. I believe by this means both the one who prays and the one prayed for need a measure of faith. I am not going to enter into any discussion as to what proportion and how much faith is needed by each party, suffice to say that God knows when conditions are met and things happen in response.
Further on the faith issue you will have heard that "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God"
Now does it not seem then appropriate that if people need faith for healing then it must be heard-and how will it be heard if it is not preached -and how will it be preached if there are no preachers who actually believe that "by His stripes ye are healed" .................
So who is in the wrong here:
Rhema Bible Training College that teach the fullness of the provisions of God or
Other institutions that seem to directly oppose the faith message
You be the judge.

 

[Alive_Again]

Healings are gradual as compared to miracles, which take place immediately. We'd all like to see more of these because they are a powerful witness to the miracle working power of God.

God places some importance on having because you've asked. You seek and find. He wants us to believe Him for specific things, and healing is very important. We can't be doubleminded about receiving.

God is loving us into obedience (or trying). When He deals with us about our mouth, or attitudes, or judgments, or lack in helping spread the good news and get people saved, He's working toward our healing too. All things are working together to that end, if we're still holding on for our healing.

If love covers a multitude of evil, then our active sowing love and mercy is working together toward our healing. Don't let go!

If we have bitter root expectancies in our lives from unrighteous judgments made decades ago, then we should know that our bodies retain the penalty for our unrighteous judgments. As we judge, we are judged. Let's get back to what God has already said and get into agreement and pray that He'll show us these judgments so we can repent from them and give God something to work with in our lives. We agree with truth and sow good things that work toward our healing.

What if in these healing meetings, we appeared before God as individual gardens that had God's Word growing in them, and everything else as well. What if these gardens were crying out to God, "Harvest me!" "Harvest the fruit of my healing!" He sees a lot of weeds, thorns, rocks, and the seed of the enemy. God's anointing power goes out over the crowd and in His love He removes some thorns and rocks, and the seed of the devil's lies. He waters and gives light to the seed of healing in our heart. We leave free'er than when we came, but our physical healing is not immediately forthcoming. Don't you know that He's working your garden toward the harvest of your heart's desires? Don't give up!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Healings are gradual as compared to miracles, which take place immediately.

Not according to the Bible. "Healings" are likely to be as "Instant" as any other "Move of God".

He wants us to believe Him for specific things, and healing is very important. We can't be doubleminded about receiving.

Except that UNLESS we have a KNOWN WORD (and I don't mean a "Proof text") from God, there's nothing on which "Faith" can be built, so "Doubt" is impossible to erase.

"God is loving us into obedience (or trying)."

True statement.

"When He deals with us about our mouth, or attitudes, or judgments, or lack in helping spread the good news and get people saved, He's working toward our healing too.

There's no Biblical reason to believe that at all. However HE DOES deal with us about our behaviour, and is working to Conform us to the Image of Christ - which is what the WOrd actually DOES say.

The rest of it is "Just Another" rationalization (among MANY) for why healing generally DOESN'T WORK.

 

[Alive_Again]

"Healings" are likely to be as "Instant" as any other "Move of God".

Let's say that healings can be gradual. Have you dipped in the river 7 times in an instant? How would you define a miracle? There is a distinction between healings and miracles in the Bible in Corinthians. We aren't given a dictionary in the Word, but it seems to be apparent that miracles seemingly take place very quickly and we know from our own body, that healing is a process.

Except that UNLESS we have a KNOWN WORD (and I don't mean a "Proof text") from God, there's nothing on which "Faith" can be built, so "Doubt" is impossible to erase.

I was the biggest doubter in the world regarding healing UNTIL I had the revelation from God about it. After that, I KNEW. Until that, you won't know. I talked the same stuff you basically do about healing, but I'm grateful that as I submitted myself to being (possibly) wrong, I received understanding. (I say this humbly because I didn't deserve to hear it and it wasn't by being clever that I got it.) Too many base their "understanding" on the fact that everyone doesn't receive their healing. What happens to everyone else is not our teacher. We can learn from that, but apart from receiving revelation, we can only conject about it.

"When He deals with us about our mouth, or attitudes, or judgments, or lack in helping spread the good news and get people saved, He's working toward our healing too.

There's no Biblical reason to believe that at all. However HE DOES deal with us about our behaviour, and is working to Conform us to the Image of Christ - which is what the WOrd actually DOES say.

The Holy Spirit convicts or convinces us about sin (if we are hearing from Him). The Word has plenty to say about reaping what we sow, and death and life being in the power of the tongue. It also says that the judgment we (ourselves) render is the one we have. It says that the one who doesn't walk in what they have will have even what they seem to have taken away. It says that the one who says he'll work and then doesn't isn't the one of the two examples given by Jesus as the one doing the will of God.

The Word says that if we incline and hearken and do, that we'll be blessed and God will be with us as we say He is. These are all precepts that indicate that when we aren't a do'er of the Word, that we won't be blessed in our deeds. That typically includes healing. We receive it by grace, so even if we're missing it, we can be as short as repentance away from being able to receive again. Being conformed as you say is no doubt a byproduct of submitting ourselves and not being conformed to the world (the only way to do this is by walking in newness of life). We have to be renewed and do the things the Word says that make for renewal (waiting on the Lord, trusting in Him, receiving the Word and doing it). If we're disobedient, then we have the fruits of corruption working in our lives, starting from within, and bearing fruit in our physical bodies.

If I say in modern vernacular that we have a part to play in our blessing without quoting scripture, it takes these types of examples and their precepts into account.

The rest of it is "Just Another" rationalization (among MANY) for why healing generally DOESN'T WORK.

If you consider not doing the Word a "rationalization" then I suppose so. Examples from the Word are abundant about God blessing the one who hearkens according to the Word.

Of course if you believe it is God's perfect will for Christ's body to be sick and cancerous, then that is a rationalization why healing isn't for today (and for whomsoever meets the condition--which is actually what the Word says).

Show me from the Word where it says or implies that healing isn't for everyone or even anyone. An example of someone being judged and dying does not meet that condition. Neither does someone who did not have even the Old Covenant for a promise.

*A "messenger" is not a disease. If you think it is, give me 3 witnesses to indicate that it is.

Can you tell me why Jesus would lie about believers laying hands on the sick and they will recover (if that was not His intent)?