Why not use commands?

[ByTheSpirit]

Can someone cite for me the examples where the apostles or early church commanded things to come to pass?

It seems pretty obvious the people who were there with Jesus when he said this understood what he was getting at. Why can't some do the same now?

 

[NannaNae]

Can someone cite for me the examples where the apostles or early church commanded things to come to pass?

ah people being healed and dead raising and maybe even things like phillips wishing to just be someplace else and then he was .. now that is commanding.

I mean even Elijah was doing these things over and over in the old testament!
it is part of our inheritance as children of god.. even in the old testament.

the problem comes in with christianity is people commanding what they think they deserve in this life, and we deserve nothing that doesn't come from his hand in his time for his purposes not ours. so these acts of demanding for ourselves is ok.. but they will find they got their rewards in this life.


like my father forgot something he was told about my grandma will... every one got something but me and I was grandma favorite grandchild ..

she also did the double portion thing where in each level( child, grandchild , great grandchildren , one of the kids got a double portion............. but I got nothing. and dad didn't even give me the normal portion.. how does he forget one kid and then use up all the money himself? and he did the same thing with 2 inheritances use it all up himself... his friends went places and did stuff like live in israel but he left me out..


anyway I cried out to God for his wisdom and his healing .. and then He/ God asked me a question
"do you want man's inheritance or mine? " , that answer was easy enough!

I mean how can a father forget his kids unless God blinds him ? or he is just one oblivious turkey. but the point being is that wisdom is to let God pay back in his time not man's time..

I wouldn't trade now what He has given since then ... even for the double portion of my wonderful grandma's and great grandma estates.
both these ladies gave me things that were way way more important than anything money can buy !

but yes I could have demanded" my fair share as a "child of god"..." and in this life.....and "prayed it through" ( with a few lawyers at my side ) and yes I would have gotten it ! and would have been praising god for the victory even..

or I could have waited for His completed work and for His double portion(up to 100 times) of my double portion.. and none of it in money so far ! but I still wouldn't trade any of what He gives instead of any of the money in this life , none of it !

Wisdom and a heart that really trusts His process is what is lacking in those who run around claiming what they want because their hearts are in this world and they don't know him or trust Him , and so they will get their rewards in this life.

but He can use that too I suppose... I mean He can use just about anything and turn just about anything into his purposes for our good. God can even use an adorable selfish little ...?(emp).... like my dad.. you got to love him, everybody loves him !

now claiming what God wants to give others when God tells you to is another story completely!

 

[Faulty]

The scripture doesn't say that Philip wished to be somewhere else, then he was, and even if it did, wishing is not commanding.

 

[NannaNae]

people were raised from the dead , heard in other languages limbs healed and so many things that can't be numbered and you are going to get nit picky about Phillip's experiences. that none know anything about at all.....

repeat Elijah was commanding rain and fire from heaven and ... and and and .. that was old testament. how much more could we be doing if we followed father and his will!

jesus was doing the will of the father , Elijah was loved , why because he was doing the will of the father , we should be doing the will of the father!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Can someone cite for me the examples where the apostles or early church commanded things to come to pass?"

Do you recall Pete and the cripple at the temple gate for one??

 

[Scottmcc1]

"But we can command things that are according to the promises of God and are of His will."

But, of course, you left OUT the "Condition statement" that controls the issue:

"and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen," - i.e. has FAITH.

SAYING you "believe without doubt" and Actually being able to DO IT are two different things.

Simple as that.

Bob, I left out belief on purpose because this discussion/debate is about commanding. I am very much aware of belief or the lack thereof. Some of the mountains in my life haven't budged an inch. Yet others have. But I'm not giving up, but studying and abiding to come at it from another angle.

There's no "also" or "either/or" in that passage.

Of course not. I was not quoting the passage of Mark 11:23,24 just pointing there is more than one way in these verses.

 

[now faith]

Romans: 4. 16. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17. (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.


No it's not a metaphor or any other interpretation to refute God's word,and yes Bob condition believe in your heart is there.
It is a mountain a big hunk of land Jesus was speaking about.
He was teaching two fold the power of speaking and the power of praying to the Father.


Mark: 11. 22. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. Mark: 11. 22. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Have faith in God for the third time I posted it this is key.
Why do some try to rewrite the Bible?
It's not what you interpret it is what it says in the red letters.
If we chase every rabbit trail trying to figure out what a mountain is the point will be conditional on who's ever opinion.
And yes Peter spoke to the man who was crippled in Jesus Name and he was healed.
He did not pray,although he could have according to the teaching in Mark unless you want to make praying to the Father a allegorical statement as well.
Come on folks it's not this hard to understand.

 

[now faith]

"Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask,"

If Jesus wants us to command things, why is He saying to ask?

You know as well as I do it was a two fold teaching.
One based on the fig tree Christ had spoken to , the other on teaching on prayer to the Father.

 

[now faith]

You know
I bet we can debate John 3 :16 cause someone has some other opinion from some metaphysical translation.

 

[AbbaLove]

You know
I bet we can debate John 3:16 cause someone has some other opinion from some metaphysical translation.

The Op's reference to "command" could give the wrong impression when he talks about coming at the mountain "from another angle."Hopefully, his intention wasn't in any way meant to equate "command" with the metaphysical predisposition of some New Agers that presuppose man is his own god.

 

[Scottmcc1]

The Op's reference to "command" could give the wrong impression when he talks about coming at the mountain "from another angle."Hopefully, his intention wasn't in any way meant to equate "command" with the metaphysical predisposition of some New Agers that presuppose man is his own god.

This is the purpose of this thread. God has given us an example to follow. Mark 11:22-25. 1 Peter 2:21 "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,"

There are promises God has given us and we can walk in them with authority in Christ directed by the Holy Spirit. Not to spend it on our own lusts James 4:3. Not to go against the will of God 1 John 3:22 but according to God's will and direction 2 Cor 1:20.

Are we our own god if we speak the command God has given us?

 

[Faulty]

"Can someone cite for me the examples where the apostles or early church commanded things to come to pass?"

Do you recall Pete and the cripple at the temple gate for one??

I do, and if you read it carefully, in no place was the healing commanded.

Do you have any more?

 

[Faulty]

You know as well as I do it was a two fold teaching.
One based on the fig tree Christ had spoken to , the other on teaching on prayer to the Father.

No, I don't know that.

 

[Faulty]

people were raised from the dead , heard in other languages limbs healed and so many things that can't be numbered and you are going to get nit picky about Phillip's experiences. that none know anything about at all.....

repeat Elijah was commanding rain and fire from heaven and ... and and and .. that was old testament. how much more could we be doing if we followed father and his will!

jesus was doing the will of the father , Elijah was loved , why because he was doing the will of the father , we should be doing the will of the father!

Sorry, but you brought up Phillip and claimed to know what he was thinking, not me.

 

[now faith]

The Op's reference to "command" could give the wrong impression when he talks about coming at the mountain "from another angle."Hopefully, his intention wasn't in any way meant to equate "command" with the metaphysical predisposition of some New Agers that presuppose man is his own god.

The depth of this passage is wonderful.
Mark: 11. 14. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. 15. And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; 16. And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. 17. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves. 18. And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine. 19. And when even was come, he went out of the city. 20. And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. 21. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away. 22. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. 24. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. 25. And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
The fig tree had the appearance of bearing fruit yet it had no fruit.
The Temple and the fig tree are parallels,the fig tree being a foreshadow of the temple.
The passage on the mountain is not conditional on the passage on prayer.
But we all have opinions as well as the verses right in front of us to discern

 

[now faith]

I do, and if you read it carefully, in no place was the healing commanded.

Do you have any more?

Acts: 3. 2. And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; 3. Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. 4. And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. 5. And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. 6. Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. 7. And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ancle bones received strength. 8. And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. 9. And all the people saw him walking and praising God:

Where's the obvious?

In the name of Jesus rise up and walk,anytime the name above all names is used in this manner it is a command.
And when the Holy Spirit moves it is a command.
Acts: 13. 11. And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.

Acts: 9. 40. But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up. 41. And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.

Notice Peter prayed before he said Tabitha arise.

I wonder why he did this work by praying?
I wonder why at the Temple he spoke to the man in Jesus Name?

Could this be what Christ was referring to in Mark 11?

 

[now faith]

A word for my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Just because I believe the truth in God's word does not mean I can do what Peter did.
Fear and lack of faith is why.

We all have seen people crippled and hurting our hearts desire is for them to be made whole.
We walk on By.
Our thoughts take over and we create a scenario,one of people looking on in disgust while we fail.
A real crash and burn grabbing their hand saying be made whole and nothing.

As Christians we aspire to be Christ like and so did Peter and Paul.
Their audience did not have hundreds of years of doubt in their hearts passed down through generations.

But we do,the healer and the one who needs healing.
I can relate to the joy missionaries have when the Gospel is preached for the first Time to a group of people.
The great works that manifest from the childlike faith of those who were never taught to doubt.

If the Lord doesn't come back for a few generations,and the doubters are long gone,maybe the Gospel will
Be introduced for the first time again to modern civilization.

God is always on time.

 

[NorrinRadd]

"Commanding" surely fits the context better than "confessing." It of course fits the parallel in Matt. 21, but also Luke 17:6.

The "mountain-moving" language, especially in the context of "faith" (Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:22) calls to mind 1 Cor. 12:9 and 13:2. That suggests the kind of faith that "removes mountains" by spoken command only comes "as the Spirit wills."

Mountain-moving by the power of the Spirit also (perhaps less clearly) evokes Zech. 4:6-7.

 

[Scottmcc1]

I Command You Satan in the Name of the Lord
To Take up Your Weapons and Flee
For the Lord Has Given Me Authority
To Walk All over Thee.

 

[AbbaLove]

This is the purpose of this thread. God has given us an example to follow. Mark 11:22-25. 1 Peter 2:21 "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,"

My previous reply about New Agers predisposition with metaphysical spirituality was with reference to now faith’s post shown below. Wasn't yet made aware the direction this thread was heading considering now faith's post and this being a debate forum.

You know
I bet we can debate John 3 :16 cause someone has some other opinion from some metaphysical translation.

Do you have a deliverance ministry testimony or a self deliverance testimony in which you found using the word “command” along with your following words accomplished the objective? Why do you capitalize the word “Thee” in reference to satan? Isn't the capitalization and use of the word "Thee" intended more as a reference to God than satan? Or are you just seeing if we're paying attention

I Command You Satan in the Name of the Lord
To Take up Your Weapons and Flee
For the Lord Has Given Me Authority
To Walk All over Thee.

The scripture that i'm most familiar with in which the word “command” is used is Hebrews 11:3 “By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.”