Why not use commands?

[Scottmcc1]

Mark 11:22-25 presents the concept of commanding the mountain. (The mountain being a problem.) Granted we can't command things that are against the will of God. 1 John 3:22 And we can't command things that are for the lusts of our flesh. James 4:3 But we can command things that are according to the promises of God and are of His will. 2 Cor 1:20

Some say that we should not command. Why not in light of Mark 11:22-25?

Mark 11:22-25 "And Jesus answered saying to them,
“Have faith in God.
23 Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain,
‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’
and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen,
it will be granted him.
24 Therefore I say to you,
all things for which you pray and ask,
believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.
25 Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone,
so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions.” NASB

 

[Faulty]

Mark 11:22-25 presents the concept of commanding the mountain. (The mountain being a problem.) Granted we can't command things that are against the will of God. 1 John 3:22 And we can't command things that are for the lusts of our flesh. James 4:3 But we can command things that are according to the promises of God and are of His will. 2 Cor 1:20

Some say that we should not command. Why not in light of Mark 11:22-25?

Mark 11:22-25 "And Jesus answered saying to them,
“Have faith in God.
23 Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain,
‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’
and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen,
it will be granted him.
24 Therefore I say to you,
all things for which you pray and ask,
believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.
25 Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone,
so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions.” NASB

"Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask,"

If Jesus wants us to command things, why is He saying to ask?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Mark 11:22-25 presents the concept of commanding the mountain. (The mountain being a problem.) Granted we can't command things that are against the will of God. 1 John 3:22 And we can't command things that are for the lusts of our flesh. James 4:3 But we can command things that are according to the promises of God and are of His will. 2 Cor 1:20

Some say that we should not command. Why not in light of Mark 11:22-25?

Mark 11:22-25 "And Jesus answered saying to them,
“Have faith in God.
23 Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain,
‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’
and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen,
it will be granted him.
24 Therefore I say to you,
all things for which you pray and ask,
believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.
25 Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone,
so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions.” NASB

Not to mention what in that context implies Jesus was talking about the mountain being "a problem"?

 

[Simon Peter]

This scripture is in reference to sin. The mountain cast into the sea is a mountain of sin. You may ask God in faith to remove any sin, no matter how large.

He will again have compassion on us; he will tread our iniquities underfoot. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea.
Micah 7:19 ESV

peace,
Simon

 

[ByTheSpirit]

This scripture is in reference to sin. The mountain cast into the sea is a mountain of sin. You may ask God in faith to remove any sin, no matter how large.

He will again have compassion on us; he will tread our iniquities underfoot. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea.
Micah 7:19 ESV

peace,
Simon

I'm not even sure this is it...

Am I in the minority in thinking Jesus was just speaking allegorically?

In other words, Jesus was saying that anything, even the physically impossible, is indeed possible with faith. Kind of like how He said, "All things are possible to those who believe." Mark 9:23

 

[NannaNae]

I think he is talking about a certain time when that mountain will move. because he says it at least twice about that mountain.
and time when his people will command that mountain to move.
and they will know when they are to do that.
I can only guess when that might be.
and I also suspect that he is talking about other mountains but that is about another time.

 

[Scottmcc1]

"Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask,"

If Jesus wants us to command things, why is He saying to ask?

He is saying to ask also because there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Scottmcc1]

Not to mention what in that context implies Jesus was talking about the mountain being "a problem"?

The context Mark 11:11-14;20-26 is the fig tree not having figs. So Jesus commands that the fig tree die. Then He shows that after the fig tree died, we can also do this (whoever says v23) in Mark 11:22-25

 

[Scottmcc1]

This scripture is in reference to sin. The mountain cast into the sea is a mountain of sin. You may ask God in faith to remove any sin, no matter how large.

He will again have compassion on us; he will tread our iniquities underfoot. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea.
Micah 7:19 ESV

peace,
Simon

Yes and amen. This is a great application for Mark 11:22f, but is not the only way we can use this passage.

 

[Scottmcc1]

I think he is talking about a certain time when that mountain will move. because he says it at least twice about that mountain.
and time when his people will command that mountain to move.
and they will know when they are to do that.
I can only guess when that might be.
and I also suspect that he is talking about other mountains but that is about another time.

Yes, it could refer to a time in the future. But the whoever of verse 23 shows that this concept is for all.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The context Mark 11:11-14;20-26 is the fig tree not having figs. So Jesus commands that the fig tree die. Then He shows that after the fig tree died, we can also do this (whoever says v23) in Mark 11:22-25

I'm not even sure this is it...

Am I in the minority in thinking Jesus was just speaking allegorically?

In other words, Jesus was saying that anything, even the physically impossible, is indeed possible with faith. Kind of like how He said, "All things are possible to those who believe." Mark 9:23

This ^^^ is exactly the point I'm making by saying Jesus was speaking allegorically. that something impossible with man is possible with faith. Such as the cursing of the fig tree or moving the mountain. Not some well what I really mean is its a problem or whatever you know?

 

[NannaNae]

Yes, it could refer to a time in the future. But the whoever of verse 23 shows that this concept is for all.

yes! right I don't believe He wasted one single word.. it is all prophetic for a or a few times and all allegorical for all other times !

yes I agree with you and he can paint a million pictures with one or two words..

 

[NannaNae]

so maybe God's truth is always true .. in every situation.

but it takes his wisdom to apply it at the right time and in that right way, to accomplish his purposes right?

that is our struggle, fight , lessons are all about that kind of wisdom........the listening and being obedient part of it , is what takes the real faith and endures .

 

[Scottmcc1]

The mountain may not always be an impossible problem. The mountain may just be a roadblock, such as government approval of a permit. Just as Simon Peter pointed out, we also can intercede for the lost.

 

[Alive_Again]

When Jesus commanded with authority, He did that to rebellious spirits and "hijacked" forces of nature. when He spoke to the tree, He wasn't "half-cocked" because there was no fruit on it. He spoke a word of judgment over the tree. It is said that the fig tree represented Israel (the allegory). The old system was now over, and He was about to go lay His life down and usher in the New Covenant.

He spoke of mountains in response to the tree withering so quickly. The tree, being a "type", still wilted at His command, and He gave the church a lesson on speaking words of authority. But He heard or saw what God was doing when He did it. Since what we sometimes "see" or "hear" in the Spirit can be subtle, it takes faith to step forward and bring it into reality.

He walked winds and water and sent a herd of devils to flight with His Word. He could bring a legion of angels down at His command, and mountains, devils, storms, and other physical obstacles cannot stand in the way of Him, and those in Him.

I've heard a number of people moving in the gift of faith say that they had doubts enter their mind or questions to God about how ridiculous His command seemed to them. So you can have "hearing" or "sight" in accordance with special faith and still have to rise up without doubt in your heart and speak forth just like He did (though by revelation).

If we pass over Mark 11:23-24 as "just an allegory" then we miss the lesson He spoke of regarding having faith and speaking without doubt to bring immediate change.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"But we can command things that are according to the promises of God and are of His will."

But, of course, you left OUT the "Condition statement" that controls the issue:

"and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen," - i.e. has FAITH.

SAYING you "believe without doubt" and Actually being able to DO IT are two different things.

Simple as that.

 

[Tobias]

There have been no reports of anyone having moved a mountain by faith over the past two thousand years. It seems strange to me that, if God wanted us to have that kind of faith, nobody has ever accomplished it!


My take on it is this: Faith is not simply another word for belief. We don't "believe" miracles into happening. Faith requires something more!

Hagin said: "Faith begins when the will of God is known." So often we presume we know the will of God because we think we are such wonderful Bible scholars. But I think, that if we truly know the will of God, then faith is simply our small part of the recipe that combines with God's plan to see it through.

IOW, God has never specifically willed for anyone to command a mountain to move, so none have been moved; no matter how loud they shouted or how much they tried to "believe". But many many many other things have been in His perfect will for us, so when people spoke the command, things happened!

 

[ByTheSpirit]

There have been no reports of anyone having moved a mountain by faith over the past two thousand years. It seems strange to me that, if God wanted us to have that kind of faith, nobody has ever accomplished it!


My take on it is this: Faith is not simply another word for belief. We don't "believe" miracles into happening. Faith requires something more!

Hagin said: "Faith begins when the will of God is known." So often we presume we know the will of God because we think we are such wonderful Bible scholars. But I think, that if we truly know the will of God, then faith is simply our small part of the recipe that combines with God's plan to see it through.

IOW, God has never specifically willed for anyone to command a mountain to move, so none have been moved; no matter how loud they shouted or how much they tried to "believe". But many many many other things have been in His perfect will for us, so when people spoke the command, things happened!

Well of course... Jesus saying what he did in Mark 11 wasn't God saying he wanted a bunch of geographic engineers running around moving the landscape however they saw fit. That's why I said it was an allegory that Jesus used to show the power of faith. If you have faith, then you can do the impossible...

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:26 NIV)

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.” (Mark 10:27 NIV)

“ ‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.” (Mark 9:23 NIV)

Of course there is the side of the equation also that says every work God wants us to do he will show us how he wants it done and when.

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. (John 5:19, 20 NIV)

 

[Faulty]

He is saying to ask also because there is more than one way to skin a cat.

There's no "also" or "either/or" in that passage.

 

[Faulty]

Can someone cite for me the examples where the apostles or early church commanded things to come to pass?