Why Not Catholic?

[DD2008]

CARM is very anti Roman Catholicism. They use to have some very anti Lutheran things on their website, but those seem to have gotten buried or removed.
.

So much so, that I got physically weak at my stomach and nervous when I went there not knowing what they were up to. It was really awful. It was the same kind of feeling I would get in a brothel.

 

[Edial]

...It was really awful. It was the same kind of feeling I would get in a brothel.

What were you doing in a brothel?

Quilt Angel was correct.
These are some questions that were asked by newer members.

And as you know by now - RC and Lutherans disagreement goes back to the beginning of the Reformation.

We WILL disagree.
However, you probably already discovered that there is no distinct dislike here towards the RC as far as the regular RC folks go.

Disagreement is ecclesiastical in nature - not personal.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Giantsbran1227]

Search Eucharistic miracle on google. You will find many proven instances. Along with many other catholic miracles like statues of Christ bleeding, Mary statues crying, proven Mary apparitions, etc.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Search Eucharistic miracle on google. You will find many proven instances. Along with many other catholic miracles like statues of Christ bleeding, Mary statues crying, proven Mary apparitions, etc.

Yes, but see you're the one making the charge, so you need to prove it. Why should we have to do your work?

And of course we know the stories. But we're looking for the evidence that science backed them up...

 

[DD2008]

What were you doing in a brothel?

Quilt Angel was correct.
These are some questions that were asked by newer members.

And as you know by now - RC and Lutherans disagreement goes back to the beginning of the Reformation.

We WILL disagree.
However, you probably already discovered that there is no distinct dislike here towards the RC as far as the regular RC folks go.

Disagreement is ecclesiatical in nature - not personal.

Thanks,
Ed

I don't have a bad feeling about this site. It is just going to look pretty bad at first glance to someone passing through because they see those three threads. It looks obsessive a bit.

But, yeah I got real bad feelings from the other place. It certainly felt evil to me. I didn't stick around long.

 

[Zecryphon]

Grr, CF is getting glitchy again. It posted my post twice.

Maybe it thought your post was worth repeating.

 

[Edial]

...

But, yeah I got real bad feelings from the other place. It certainly felt evil to me. I didn't stick around long.

Good for you.

 

[Edial]

Search Eucharistic miracle on google. You will find many proven instances. Along with many other catholic miracles like statues of Christ bleeding, Mary statues crying, proven Mary apparitions, etc.

It is also important what DaRev said ...

The numerous occurances of the catholic eucharist becoming ACTUAL flesh and blood. This has happened on many occasions and has been proven factual by science.
​

I was a practicing Roman Catholic for 30 years and had only heard of one such occurance, but there was no "scientific evidence" to back it up, mainly because the Church would not allow scientists to handle the elements.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[DaRev]

Search Eucharistic miracle on google. You will find many proven instances. Along with many other catholic miracles like statues of Christ bleeding, Mary statues crying, proven Mary apparitions, etc.

Many of those are Roman Catholic sponsored sites. And the supposed miracles are approved by the Roman Catholic Church and not independent "scientific" research.

As has been asked here before, please present your scientific evidence so we can research it.

 

[Giantsbran1227]

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/english_pdf/Lanciano1.pdf

Just one example.
Notice the proven science at the end of the reading.

There are dozens more of these.
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

 

[Edial]

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/english_pdf/Lanciano1.pdf

Just one example.
Notice the proven science at the end of the reading.

...

According to Eduardo Lanoli, the scientist who conducted the tests, this relic was indeed a flesh and AB type human blood, as recorded in catholic paper "Zenit".
http://www.zenit.org/article-12933?l=english

That miracle supposedly occurred in 850AD in a small village.

How is the fact that we have a piece of actual flesh prove that this flesh was once not a flesh?

Thanks,
Ed

 

[kevin.d.cherry]

I'm not even going to look at those, because I don't really trust science OR the catholic church anymore. Seriously, in the 70s the scientists decided we were going to go through another ice age so we needed to fix the environment, and now there's "global warming" so we need to fix the environment. Could it be possible that the earth just goes through natural phases of being rebellious when it comes to the weather?
Anyway, back to the point, I was raised a Baptist. I then went to the United Pentecostal Church for 2 years, where "miracles" abounded. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's no fact at all in them, but it certainly IS sketchy.
After that, I went to the Greek Orthodox Church for a year, where there are several documented cases of icons crying. Again, it may or may not be factual, but either way, it's happening. You simply cannot say that God is only granting miracles to the Roman Catholics when there are miracles all around you, be it the Deaf man suddenly being able to hear at the local pentecostal church, or the icon of the Theotokos crying at an Orthodox church in New York. I have witnessed miracles myself, a paralyzed man being able to walk when the doctors refused to do anything. I would much rather be blessed by being able to walk again (which is something tangable and able to be proven without the church stepping in and saying that scientists cannot look into it, yet another sketchy thing to me...) than people (usually alone) claiming to see the virgin mary telling them to go pray... it just doesn't make sense. Also, if the Catholic church is the One True Church, you should be able to look into their past and see them perpetually doing the work of God. A few instances where this is not the case come to my mind, such as when Queen Elizabeth was crowned in England, and the Pope issued a Bull that said that she was an abomination and whoever assassinated her would be rewarded in heaven, and also when the Catholic church was burning Protestants in the name of God. Do you think God would accept one specific church as being the right one when they have broken one of the Ten Commandments perpetually over the years? I certainly don't. Christ says that the only way to the Father is through him, yet the RCC says the only way to the Father is through THEM. Do you see any inconsistancies there?

 

[RadMan]

Interestingly enough the denoms that have "miracles" seem to be related through good works or legalism. I'm beginning to think that those two terms are one and the same. The RCC, EO and RO all have the goods works angle and the Charismatic, Pentecostal, AoG's etc have the legalism. Makes ya wonder if they aren't two different sides of the same coin.

 

[Giantsbran1227]

I'm not even going to look at those, because I don't really trust science OR the catholic church anymore. Seriously, in the 70s the scientists decided we were going to go through another ice age so we needed to fix the environment, and now there's "global warming" so we need to fix the environment. Could it be possible that the earth just goes through natural phases of being rebellious when it comes to the weather?
Anyway, back to the point, I was raised a Baptist. I then went to the United Pentecostal Church for 2 years, where "miracles" abounded. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's no fact at all in them, but it certainly IS sketchy.
After that, I went to the Greek Orthodox Church for a year, where there are several documented cases of icons crying. Again, it may or may not be factual, but either way, it's happening. You simply cannot say that God is only granting miracles to the Roman Catholics when there are miracles all around you, be it the Deaf man suddenly being able to hear at the local pentecostal church, or the icon of the Theotokos crying at an Orthodox church in New York. I have witnessed miracles myself, a paralyzed man being able to walk when the doctors refused to do anything. I would much rather be blessed by being able to walk again (which is something tangable and able to be proven without the church stepping in and saying that scientists cannot look into it, yet another sketchy thing to me...) than people (usually alone) claiming to see the virgin mary telling them to go pray... it just doesn't make sense. Also, if the Catholic church is the One True Church, you should be able to look into their past and see them perpetually doing the work of God. A few instances where this is not the case come to my mind, such as when Queen Elizabeth was crowned in England, and the Pope issued a Bull that said that she was an abomination and whoever assassinated her would be rewarded in heaven, and also when the Catholic church was burning Protestants in the name of God. Do you think God would accept one specific church as being the right one when they have broken one of the Ten Commandments perpetually over the years? I certainly don't. Christ says that the only way to the Father is through him, yet the RCC says the only way to the Father is through THEM. Do you see any inconsistancies there?

Strong first post this helped me alot. I have just never heard of miracles in any other churches besides the RC church so it makes me skeptic.

 

[Tofferer]

I don't doubt that miracles can and do happen. What I doubt is that all of them are legitimate. If it were legitimate, then it would point directly to God intervening in the events of human affairs for a purpose. Otherwise, I would reject it as a work of the devil. I seriously doubt that God would work miracles to prove one denomination was somehow superior to another.

 

[Giantsbran1227]

Well guys I think I am going to be join the Eastern Orthodox church. They have everything I like about the RCC, and dont have what I dont like about the RCC. Any thoughts on the EOC from u guys?

 

[Edial]

Well guys I think I am going to be join the Eastern Orthodox church. They have everything I like about the RCC, and dont have what I dont like about the RCC. Any thoughts on the EOC from u guys?

Have a great transfer.
If they have everything you personally like and does not have things you do not like - sounds like a match.

filo asked you if you read Scriptures.
He then presented Scriptures as a support for what he was trying to convey.

Lutherans emphasize the Bible and biblical tradition.

Traditional churches like RC and EO emphasize themselves as the authority that is at par or over the Scriptures.

If you like that - no problem.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Giantsbran1227]

I just really honor the tradition of the EO, and feel that if it was the first church of Christ, it should be the church I join.

The EO also fixed many of the problems that Martin Luther was complaining about during his time.....

 

[Tofferer]

EO was not the first church. EO and RC split centuries ago, long before Luther. I don't even know if we can determine what the first christian church really was. I do know that there are seven churches recorded by name in the Apocalypse. I also know that Paul's epistles were written to specific churches. I would think that all of these predate any modern church structure as we know it today.

 

[DaRev]

The "first church" would be the one that adheres to the teachings of the Apostle's who were commissioned by Christ to build up the Church. Their teachings are handed down to us through their recorded words in the Holy Scriptures.

Thus, the "true Church" would be the one that most closely adheres to the Apostle's teachings handed down in the Scriptures. Through my own searching a number of years ago I discovered that the Confessional Lutheran Church is the closest to the church of the Apostles that exists on earth today.

Both the RCC and the EO have tainted the Apostolic teachings with their man-made Traditions and their insistance on works righteousness.