Why Not Catholic?

[kevin.d.cherry]

I sense a storm a-brewin. Just remember that we are ALL in the fellowship of God, you guys. There's nothing Christian about dogging each other.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Really because I have been to mexican Masses in mexican churches and have known filipinos and mexicans and Greek Catholics and French Catholics and none of them practiced or taught the worship of Mary. And I know no priest that ever allowed that either. I am not saying that it couldn't or doesn't happen somewhere in the world. I sure there is abuses somewhere as All churches of all denominations have abuses because we are all sinful. I am just saying that the normal expierience and practice in the Catholic church and its offical teaching is that we do not worship anyone but God alone. So it is not Charitable for you(Our good Lutheran brothers in Christ) to try to purposely misrepresent our Catholic faith by saying we worship Mary when you know we do not. I would not purposely try to misrepresent a aspect of Lutheran teaching on the Catholic board even if there might be some people somewhere in the world who abuse a Lutheran teaching becuase that would not be fair to the Lutheran faith as whole.

I know we dissagree on justification and other issues biblically and that is ok. I am not tryign to debate here as this is not a debate board and I respect our separated Lutheran bretheren very much. God bless them. I just wanted to point out that respect means trying to not purposley misrepresent the Catholic teaching and practice to make your faith look better. That is not charity nor it is honest for rev or anyone to do that.

God bless you all very much.

In Christ the King through Mary the Queen Mother,
Athanasias

Hi Athanasias,

While I do understand the official position of the RC Church, we Lutherans also see that such devotion to St. Mary, and the other Saints as at least "risky". Some can become so devoted to Mary and other great Saints that it can result in glory, honor, worship, prayer, and devotion being diverted away from our Lord. This is why you see such steadfast concern regarding this among us Lutherans. We see such devotion not so much as being wrong in and of itself, but it is the possible outcome of such devotion that can be used by the devil and become a stumbling block to the faithful.

Therefore, we hold to the doctrine of "Sola Deo Gloria" in a very litteral way.

Blessings and peace to you,

Mark

 

[Jim47]

Mary is now nor never was a Queen, You are making her equal to God and The Trinity. Mary is jusy another sinner who sought forgiveness and salvation thorugh Christ Jesus, nothing more.

 

[BabyLutheran]

Oh, I'd say she was something more. Certainly not equal to God, but definitely a major part of God's plan, and deserving of more than a little respect.

 

[Zecryphon]

Oh, I'd say she was something more. Certainly not equal to God, but definitely a major part of God's plan, and deserving of more than a little respect.

No one is advocating the disrespecting of Mary, but the Queen of Heaven title makes her out to be something she never was. She is not the Queen of Heaven, that puts her just a little bit under God and makes it sound as if they rule together. They do not. Jim is right in everything he has said. Athanaisas can pay lip service to the whole "we don't worship Mary" stuff all he wants, but the fact is with a sig like that, he himself is promoting the idea of Mary worship more than any Lutheran in this thread.

 

[seajoy]

Excellent posts by Jim and Zec. Thank you.

 

[BabyLutheran]

I agree with Jim, I was just a little taken back with how snippy his post sounded. If it weren't for Mary deciding to do what was best for the world instead of thinking about herself, we would have no Saviour.

I know I would not have said yes.

 

[Tofferer]

I'm not convinced that Mary actually had a choice in the matter.

 

[BabyLutheran]

That would be very distressing if it were true. IMO.

 

[LilLamb219]

If it weren't for Mary deciding to do what was best for the world instead of thinking about herself, we would have no Saviour.

Really? You really think that???

 

[Tofferer]

God could have chosen anyone. He chose Mary. Why? Scripture doesn't say. It does say that she submitted to God's will. However, it does not say that she was asked if she would be willing to do what God had chosen for her to do.

 

[LilLamb219]

God could have chosen anyone. He chose Mary. Why? Scripture doesn't say. It does say that she submitted to God's will. However, it does not say that she was asked if she would be willing to do what God had chosen for her to do.

God uses people to do His will. He used Moses, He used David, He used Jonah...and look at what happened when Jonah didn't want to do God's will...eventually it happened We would not have been left without a Savior because of a human being. God's will be done

 

[Giantsbran1227]

I never wanted the thread to turn into this....

We all have our own opinions, and if Christ is our savior we all are saved.

 

[LilLamb219]

Yes, Christ is the one who saves us...but God also wants us to not get sloppy in our doctrines or we start going down the slope of losing faith and turning to self. Lutherans are really strong in maintaining proper doctrine because God's Word strengthens our faith.

A lot of our threads start to get tangents, and we do allow that in TCL because it mimics real life conversations.

 

[BabyLutheran]

Really? You really think that???

She was not a puppet.

I am sure God would have brought us a Savior if she had said no, but I was trying to be sarcastic in that post. It's like we either have to worship her (RC), or we have to tear her down to being just another woman. She is a woman to be greatly honored and respected for choosing to bear our Savior. If that's not a good Lutheran way to look at it, I guess I am not a good Lutheran.

 

[Melethiel]

She was not a puppet.

I am sure God would have brought us a Savior if she had said no, but I was trying to be sarcastic in that post. It's like we either have to worship her (RC), or we have to tear her down to being just another woman. She is a woman to be greatly honored and respected for choosing to bear our Savior. If that's not a good Lutheran way to look at it, I guess I am not a good Lutheran.

If that makes you a bad Lutheran, you're in good company...Luther would have been a bad Lutheran too.

 

[LilLamb219]

She was not a puppet.

I am sure God would have brought us a Savior if she had said no, but I was trying to be sarcastic in that post. It's like we either have to worship her (RC), or we have to tear her down to being just another woman. She is a woman to be greatly honored and respected for choosing to bear our Savior. If that's not a good Lutheran way to look at it, I guess I am not a good Lutheran.

Then I completely missed the sarcasm! Sorry.

 

[Jim47]

I agree with Jim, I was just a little taken back with how snippy his post sounded. If it weren't for Mary deciding to do what was best for the world instead of thinking about herself, we would have no Saviour.

I know I would not have said yes.

Its hard to tell things like that on the net, I respect Mary as the called Mother of Jesus, but nothing more. She was a sinner just like me and in need of her Savior. I'm a little surprised that so many Lutherans try to hold her out to be something more than that.

 

[Jim47]

She was not a puppet.

I am sure God would have brought us a Savior if she had said no, but I was trying to be sarcastic in that post. It's like we either have to worship her (RC), or we have to tear her down to being just another woman. She is a woman to be greatly honored and respected for choosing to bear our Savior. If that's not a good Lutheran way to look at it, I guess I am not a good Lutheran.

She didn't choose to be the mother of Jesus, she was called to be His mother, just as you are called to be a Christian.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Its hard to tell things like that on the net, I respect Mary as the called Mother of Jesus, but nothing more. She was a sinner just like me and in need of her Savior. I'm a little surprised that so many Lutherans try to hold her out to be something more than that.

From the Magnificat...
"For behold, from this day all generations will call me blessed. For the Mighty One has done great things to me," (emphasis, mine).