Why not believe in Christianity?

[Eudaimonist]

I see. Well would you honestly even want Christianity to be true?

What I want is to understand the reality we do have and how best to live here, not to pretend that I have a magic genie that can shape reality into my wishes.

Some people may join certain religions because they want them to be true, but truth has nothing to do with wishes. I'm not interested in window-shopping for a religion, but with discovering what is real.

I don't know which flavor of Christianity you adhere to, but considering that Christianity seems to include a doctrine of eternal damnation, let me ask you this:

Assuming you had the power to discover the truth of reality, which discovery would delight you more?

1) A universe in which a portion of humanity will be condemned to suffer for an eternity, no reprieves.

2) A universe in which no one suffers for eternity.

 

[Telephone]

Hi Smith87,

I am new here, my first real post (beside a 'hello I am new' post)


My doubt stems from the preposterous, magical and supernatural claims, that lack any credible proof and adhere to reason and logic even less so.

The immoral acts, the murder, the genocide, the torture of vast swathes of mankind strangely bothers me less in the respect that I do not judge what is true or false on what meets my ethical standards. An example would be that the horrors carried out by Nazi Germany during world war two do not make me 'doubt' or disbelieve that the Nazis existed.

As an unbeliever yourself (in Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Animism, Judaism etc etc ), what has caused your 'doubt' in these other religions ?



Telephone

It is a matter of presumptions and individual perspective (we all have beliefs). I was skeptic once as well, placing the value of religious concepts as labels and nothing more.

Could you answer the question with any more specific detail, I have listed my lack of belief in any religion as being "doubt stemming from the preposterous, magical and supernatural claims, that lack any credible proof and adhere to reason and logic even less so."

What specifically is your reasons for your lack of faith in Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Animism, Judaism an so on, what has caused your 'doubt' in these other religions ?

 

[Smith87]

Could you answer the question with any more specific detail, I have listed my lack of belief in any religion as being "doubt stemming from the preposterous, magical and supernatural claims, that lack any credible proof and adhere to reason and logic even less so."

What specifically is your reasons for your lack of faith in Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Animism, Judaism an so on, what has caused your 'doubt' in these other religions ?

Well I'm not sure how a belief can be "lacked" (I don't believe belief entails capacity), but anyways, the reason that I reject other theological paradigms is because they obviously contradict. One who doesn't believe in religion usally presumes they're just too many religions that contradict each other, and therefore none of them can be true. However, instead of just listing a number of various beliefs that you brush off as mythical, exaimine them a little more closly and see how they relate. For example, Buddhism and Animism are philsophically based beliefs, and Islam, Judaism and Christianty form the Abrahamic relgions. So keep that in mind.

Of course, if you just don't want to believe in any religion, no one is holding you back. Everyone is responsible for their own beliefs.

 

[Telephone]

Well I'm not sure how a belief can be "lacked" (I don't believe belief entails capacity),

I lack a belief in Christianity. I do not have the capacity to believe in what my senses tell me is false or incorrect.

but anyways, the reason that I reject other theological paradigms is because they obviously contradict.

Christianity certainly contradicts the physical world in which I live, it contains miracles, ghosts, devils, eternal life, a diety, resurrection , angels and so on, it is a stream of contradiction that is unbounded by sense.

One who doesn't believe in religion usally presumes they're just too many religions that contradict each other, and therefore none of them can be true.

This may be so, but it is not the case for myself, I judge each religion on what it puts forward and not in relation to other religions.

However, instead of just listing a number of various beliefs that you brush off as mythical, exaimine them a little more closly and see how they relate.

The all relate in the context of not being rooted in any kind of reality or the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of reality.

For example, Buddhism and Animism are philsophically based beliefs, and Islam, Judaism and Christianty form the Abrahamic relgions. So keep that in mind.

They are all based on myth, fear and a need to make sense of the world at a time when much was not understood about our world.

Of course, if you just don't want to believe in any religion, no one is holding you back. Everyone is responsible for their own beliefs.

My lack of belief in Christianity in not based on any 'want' 'desire' or 'wish', I cannot believe trees are made from solid gold regardless of whether I 'want' to or not, my beliefs are driven by evidence.

You say that you do not believe in other religious notions because they contradict and then you go on to say that "One who doesn't believe in religion usally presumes they're just too many religions that contradict each other, and therefore none of them can be true.".

Can you claify what you mean here ?

 

[Smith87]

I lack a belief in Christianity. I do not have the capacity to believe in what my senses tell me is false or incorrect.

I quite sure belief does not notion toward capacity (you can't have 15%, 25% of a belief). A belief is the understanding of a concept through experiance. It can either be accepted as true, rejected as false, or not experianced. Assuming you are familar with the concept of Christianity, you can either aknowledge this concept as true or false (part of reality or imagination).

Christianity certainly contradicts the physical world in which I live, it contains miracles, ghosts, devils, eternal life, a diety, resurrection , angels and so on, it is a stream of contradiction that is unbounded by sense.

I don't believe the bible mentions any ghosts (I don't believe the holy ghost is a caped white creatures). Anyways, angels, demons, and the like entail metaphyical entities rather than mythical. No where in scripture does it describe demons as mythical imps or gargoyles, nor angles having halos and bird wings. Many confuse depictions of metaphysical entities with interpreted 14th century artwork.

This may be so, but it is not the case for myself, I judge each religion on what it puts forward and not in relation to other religions.

That's good. But it's also interesting as well as insightful to study consistancy within different religions.

The all relate in the context of not being rooted in any kind of reality or the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of reality.


They are all based on myth, fear and a need to make sense of the world at a time when much was not understood about our world.

These are your own presumptions. We simply must agree to disagree on these issues.

My lack of belief in Christianity in not based on any 'want' 'desire' or 'wish', I cannot believe trees are made from solid gold regardless of whether I 'want' to or not, my beliefs are driven by evidence.

There is no imperical scientific evidence that directly contradicts Christianity. It satisfys teleogical and ethical concerns which are outside the field of science.

You say that you do not believe in other religious notions because they contradict and then you go on to say that "One who doesn't believe in religion usally presumes they're just too many religions that contradict each other, and therefore none of them can be true.".

Can you claify what you mean here ?

The concept of faith basically represents trusts. You can either trust the teachings of Jesus as described in the synoptic gospels, or the teachings of Joseph Smith, Buddah, or otherwise. Each of those theological teachings contradict the other, thus, if one is true, the other is false (if not, all are false). For me, personally, I trust the teachings and warnings of the historical Jesus of Nazareth to be true.

 

[BibleMadeMeDoIt]

I am curious to what causes doubt among unbelievers. Thanks for the input!

My screen name pretty much explains my deconversion. And I had no doubt, I KNEW Christianity was all a big sad joke after reading the bible.

 

[revrobor]

Forget the religion called "Christianity". Follow Jesus. The two are not necessarily the same. IMO "Christianity" has done more to damage the cause of Christ than anything else.

 

[ChristianM0Mof2]

What other people believe cannot be my responsibility!

actually yes, as Christian's it is OUR respondisbily to spread the word of Christ. God told Abramham to go forth and be fruitful. Meaning to go out and spread the word of Christ.

Our job is to Glorify Christ. To talk to non-beleivers (witness)
That is why there are so many responses to your post.

We love you, and want for you to have enternal salvation. It is my responsible to tell you that GOD loves you. and wants to have you by HIS side...

 

[ChristianM0Mof2]

actually yes, as Christian's it is OUR respondisbily to spread the word of Christ. God told Abramham to go forth and be fruitful. Meaning to go out and spread the word of Christ.

Our job is to Glorify Christ. To talk to non-beleivers (witness)
That is why there are so many responses to your post.

We love you, and want for you to have enternal salvation. It is my responsible to tell you that GOD loves you. and wants to have you by HIS side...

 

[Telephone]

I quite sure belief does not notion toward capacity (you can't have 15%, 25% of a belief). A belief is the understanding of a concept through experiance. It can either be accepted as true, rejected as false, or not experianced. Assuming you are familar with the concept of Christianity, you can either aknowledge this concept as true or false (part of reality or imagination).

A belief, in the religious context (faith), is not based on experiance (sic) but based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

I don't believe the bible mentions any ghosts (I don't believe the holy ghost is a caped white creatures). Anyways, angels, demons, and the like entail metaphyical entities rather than mythical. No where in scripture does it describe demons as mythical imps or gargoyles, nor angles having halos and bird wings. Many confuse depictions of metaphysical entities with interpreted 14th century artwork.

Regardless my point still stands with regard to a diety, resurrection, virgin birth and so on.

These are your own presumptions. We simply must agree to disagree on these issues.

I will agree that we disagree, but also point out that none of my beliefs are presumptions or an act or instance of taking something to be true or adopting a particular attitude toward something at the start of a chain of argument, presumption is the preserve of the religious mind.

There is no imperical scientific evidence that directly contradicts Christianity.

'empirical'

Evolution ?, immortality ?, the soul ?, a diety ?, virgin birth ?, resurrection, a 6000 year old earth ?, miracles ? etc etc etc...

None of these are in contradiction with science ?

TThe concept of faith basically represents trusts. You can either trust the teachings of Jesus as described in the synoptic gospels, or the teachings of Joseph Smith, Buddah, or otherwise. Each of those theological teachings contradict the other, thus, if one is true, the other is false (if not, all are false). For me, personally, I trust the teachings and warnings of the historical Jesus of Nazareth to be true.

I understand that you trust the teachings and warnings of the historical Jesus of Nazareth to be true, but you still have not said why you trust these more than any other religion ?

 

[Rae]

It is my responsible to tell you that GOD loves you. and wants to have you by HIS side...

No thanks. I'm already by Her side.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste Smith,

thank you for the post.

. For example, Buddhism and Animism are philsophically based beliefs, and Islam, Judaism and Christianty form the Abrahamic relgions. So keep that in mind. [/qutoe]

whilst this seems to be correct, it actually is not.

Buddha Dharma has, of course, a well developed philosophical tradition and four distinct philosophical schools. however, Buddhism is also a religion with religious points of view and teachings.

Buddha Dharma is typically more complex than it is often portrayed in the Western Hemisphere nations.

metta,

~v

 

[snowydc2003]

The reason that i am not a christian and do not believe in christianity is that it made no sense and made me unhappy.

I also believe that essentially we all believe in the same thing ie a higher power and that the name we give this being and the way we show our appreciation or how we worship is irrelevant.

 

[peepnklown]

I am curious to what causes doubt among unbelievers.

I require evidence before I believe anything; that would be the simple answer. I also do not fill in the gaps with supernatural answers.

 

[Smith87]

I require evidence before I believe anything; that would be the simple answer. I also do not fill in the gaps with supernatural answers.

Im curious if you have any evidence for atheism. It would be most impressive to find any convincing reseach from atheism which excludes attacking/strawmanning theism.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

Im curious if you have any evidence for atheism. It would be most impressive to find any convincing reseach from atheism which excludes attacking/strawmanning theism.

i have the same evidence for atheism that you have for not believing in leprechauns. you are an a-leprechaunist because you've never seen any evidence for them. one cannot provide "evidence" that something doesn't exist, but it is not reasonable to believe something does without evidence

 

[Telephone]

Im curious if you have any evidence for atheism.

What evidence do you have for not believing in fairies ?

 

[LVdesigns]

I am curious to what causes doubt among unbelievers. Thanks for the input!

Many reasons, but I'll keep it simple because I'm sure my reasons will overlap with what others have said.

The bible conflicts with known facts. There is little evidence to support the validity of biblical claims. The attributes ascribed to God are logically contradictory. The bible reads like any other work of mythology. Generally, there is no reason for me to assume that any god exists, let alone the Christian version.

 

[LVdesigns]

After reading through some of the other questions, I have more to add:

Was I ever a christian? Yes, for the majority of my life I was a christian. I started doubting christianity after reading the bible. I read the bible because I had become very devout and thought it was necessary to know the bible well in order to bring more to christ. After reading through most of it (I skipped over the geneology parts because they were very boring) a couple times I developed more questions than answers. I could have just thrown it all out then, but I was very dedicated to God and whanted to please him. So, I started asking for clarification. I asked other christians questions and didn't get any clear answers other than things similar to "you just have to have faith" or "God works in mysterious ways." Over the course of a few years I gradually decided that most christian ideas just didn't compute with the state of the world

I eventually came to doubt the existance of god in general, however struggled with how anything could be here without a creator. This seemed like an unanswerable question until I looked at the question in a different way. I then came to the conclusion that believing in a god simply added more questions to an already complex question. I quickly switched from claiming agnosticism to being an atheist.

Do I want christianity to be true? No, I can think of quite a few other religions which I would personally find preferable to christianity. But, just because I like the idea of something doesn't mean it will automatically be true. A better question might be: Do I want the idea of an afterlife (heaven) to be true? Sure, why not. Who wouldn't want to live forever in a place where you will always be happy? But, it would only be heaven if everyone I loved (including my pets) were there. I use to tell my mom, "I don't want to go to heaven unless I can bring my cats with me." Actually, it would have to be everyone and everything in general, because I don't see how I could be happy somewhere while knowing that others are suffering in hell.

 

[Eudaimonist]

It would be most impressive to find any convincing reseach from atheism which excludes attacking/strawmanning theism.

What leads you to be so pessimistic? Where have you looked for non-attacking/strawmanning atheist arguments?