WHY NON-CHRISTIAN?

[1watchman]

At times people ponder a reason for believing in the one and only God (consider Isa. 45:5-6). Some souls do not want anyone to be over them and greater than they are; and others want answers to satisfy their rebellious spirit. Some others think much in terms of seeing, feeling, and touching, so will not bow to that which is intangible, as they say ---though they will believe the atheistic views which are very intangible; and many other things they cannot see and feel.

A. First one needs to believe there is a Creator-God as the Bible says, for He is eternal and we have an eternal soul (as even science says); so we will meet up with Him when we leave this world, and God says that will be too late for redemption, since being in the presence of purity and holiness in our sinful nature cannot happen ---God is "...a consuming fire" as He has told us.
B. If the Bible is not accepted as "all the counsel of God" as God explains, then we are left to our own ideas.
C. One might consider that the Creator who tells of His great love for mankind, would not leave man to wander and wonder and worry; and hold us responsible for anything He has not shown us as true.
D. God has told us of His "...so great salvation" in His own beloved Son, who He sacrificed on the altar for our sins IF we will receive Him ---Jesus, the Christ of God (note John 1; John 3; John 14).
E. Wisdom speaks of doing the right thing in the right time in the right way, so one needs to consider the brevity of life, and look up and obey God by His Word while there is yet time, as some of us believe.

 

[98cwitr]

MOD HAT ON
Thread has been moved from Struggles by Non-Christians to Christian Apologetics
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Uber Genius]

Some souls do not want anyone to be over them and greater than they are; and others want answers to satisfy their rebellious spirit. Some others think much in terms of seeing, feeling, and touching, so will not bow to that which is intangible, as they say ---though they will believe the atheistic views which are very intangible; and many other things they cannot see and feel

Why not think that they just don't have evidence enough to justify belief?

We have to assume (given your methodology above) that the Bible is true. Why? Because it says it is? That is a circular argument and fallacious.

Sure people like Aldous Huxley
Admit to not wanting to bow the knee. And Richard Dawkins, Peter Atkins, and others have proclaimed no matter what the evidence they would never bow the knee. But there are those like Antony Flew!

He was the leading atheist the the majority of the mid-20th century. Flew followed the data. When Big Bang cosmology inferred a beginning of the universe he started o change his mind. When non-theists kept publishing scientific research on the fine-tuning of the universe for life, Flew eventually changed his beliefs.

I wouldn't make these type of sweeping generalizations about those who believe differently. Rather why not engage more charitably with their own claims.

Alternatively you could quote some atheists who have claimed they don't care about the evidence and then attack that claim, but I would avoid assuming that it is how all or most non-theist come to their views.

Finally, the whole discussion of how someone or why someone believes the way they do is known as the genetic fallacy.

 

[timbo3]

Why are so many non-Christian ? The answer may surprise a number of ones that profess Christianity. Because of religion's role in the massive bloodshed over the centuries, the failure to adhere to the morals of the Bible (like Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, etc) and thus hypocritical, the greed that exists among televangelists (such as Tammy Bakker's 50 ft. walk-in closet and gold-plated plumbing fixtures at Jim and Tammy Bakker's private penthouse in PTL's Heritage Grand Hotel during the 1990's), is a few of the reasons some have become atheists.

So ironically, a leading cause of atheism is religion. Historian Alister McGrath explains: “What propels people toward atheism is above all a sense of revulsion against the excesses and failures of organized religion.” Religion is often seen as a factor behind wars and violence, not the other way around.

An atheist and philosopher named Michel Onfray muses on how it is possible that the same religious book (the Bible) could inspire two types of men, one “aspiring to saintliness”, the other “carrying out an act of inhuman cruelty”—terrorism. Both the Crusades and Inquisitions of the Catholic church several hundred years ago to the Muslim extremist groups Boko Haram and ISIS shows what religious extremism can do and hence turn individuals toward atheism.

Because of the failure of the churches of Christendom to provide sound evidence of a Creator, many also have turned away from examining real evidence. Christendom often says you "need to believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved" without so much an inkling of evidence that either he or God exists. Their "evidence" is just "believe", that many translate as gullibility.

Religious hypocrisy, atheistic teachings such as evolution, and the prevalence of wickedness have caused many to doubt or even deny the existence of a Creator. However, the Bible’s explanation of God’s permission of suffering (the churches have no clue as to why God permits wickedness to continue) has touched the mind and heart of many former atheists. By taking the time to find the Bible’s answer to such a vital question (along with a host of others), many have been convinced that there is a God who is, in fact, “not far off from each one of us.” (Acts 17:27)

True Christians (as well as those who are willing to have an open mind) are provided with a plethora of evidence (for it all around us, but is also supplied through an organized channel, see Matt 24:45-47, whereby Jesus says that he would appoint a "faithful and discreet slave" to give out spiritual food during his invisible "presence", Matt 24:3), that causes them to use their "power of reason", to "prove to themselves" that the universe with its unfathomable life on earth is not the product of randomness, but is the precise action of a Supreme Designer.(Rom 12:1, 2)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

At times people ponder a reason for believing in the one and only God (consider Isa. 45:5-6). Some souls do not want anyone to be over them and greater than they are; and others want answers to satisfy their rebellious spirit. Some others think much in terms of seeing, feeling, and touching, so will not bow to that which is intangible, as they say ---though they will believe the atheistic views which are very intangible; and many other things they cannot see and feel.

Not a single sentence you wrote in this paragraphe illustrates accurately why I am an atheist. Just saying.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why are so many non-Christian ? The answer may surprise a number of ones that profess Christianity. Because of religion's role in the massive bloodshed over the centuries, the failure to adhere to the morals of the Bible (like Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, etc) and thus hypocritical, the greed that exists among televangelists (such as Tammy Bakker's 50 ft. walk-in closet and gold-plated plumbing fixtures at Jim and Tammy Bakker's private penthouse in PTL's Heritage Grand Hotel during the 1990's), is a few of the reasons some have become atheists.

Not for me though.

For me, it is simply a matter of logic.
When being presented with an argument, I tend to look at the core logic and apply the same logic to other things to see if it still works.

With religious arguments (that I've been presented with, anyway), the core logic can be applied to anything your imagination can produce.

When you have "logic" that only applies to a special case, then you are engaging in special pleading.

So ironically, a leading cause of atheism is religion. Historian Alister McGrath explains: “What propels people toward atheism is above all a sense of revulsion against the excesses and failures of organized religion.” Religion is often seen as a factor behind wars and violence, not the other way around.

An atheist and philosopher named Michel Onfray muses on how it is possible that the same religious book (the Bible) could inspire two types of men, one “aspiring to saintliness”, the other “carrying out an act of inhuman cruelty”—terrorism. Both the Crusades and Inquisitions of the Catholic church several hundred years ago to the Muslim extremist groups Boko Haram and ISIS shows what religious extremism can do and hence turn individuals toward atheism.

I certainly agree that organized religion has resulted in quite despicable things in the past as well as the present. And when asked to present a few examples, even theists generally have thought of a few examples rather instantly.

But as far as I am concerned, these are seperate issues.
Likewise, I don't judge the ethical implications of science based on the fact that the atomic bomb was produced with that knowledge.

To me there is a clear difference between the accuracy of certain things on the one hand and what people do with it on the other.

After all, for every despicable action done in the name of religion, we can just as easily find plenty of other good things that were equally motivated by religion.

A muslim in my community for example, spends his sundays feeding the hungry (no matter their religion) and/or doing other volunteer work. And he considers that to be his islamic duty and explicitly motivates it with the Quran.

Just like ISIS doesn't motivate me to be an atheist, that nice dude also doesn't motivate me to become muslim. My rejection of the claims of Islam is not based on how muslims live their lives.

Because of the failure of the churches of Christendom to provide sound evidence of a Creator, many also have turned away from examining real evidence. Christendom often says you "need to believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved" without so much an inkling of evidence that either he or God exists. Their "evidence" is just "believe", that many translate as gullibility.

There you go.... that sounds more like it.

Religious hypocrisy, atheistic teachings such as evolution

There's nothing "atheistic" about a theory of biology. The official position of even the Vatican is that evolution theory is supported by an overwhelming amount of evidence. John Paul II even called it "effectively a proven fact".

However, the Bible’s explanation of God’s permission of suffering (the churches have no clue as to why God permits wickedness to continue) has touched the mind and heart of many former atheists. By taking the time to find the Bible’s answer to such a vital question (along with a host of others), many have been convinced that there is a God who is, in fact, “not far off from each one of us.” (Acts 17:27)

Mere bible verses will not convince me either.

True Christians (as well as those who are willing to have an open mind) are provided with a plethora of evidence (for it all around us, but is also supplied through an organized channel, see Matt 24:45-47, whereby Jesus says that he would appoint a "faithful and discreet slave" to give out spiritual food during his invisible "presence", Matt 24:3), that causes them to use their "power of reason", to "prove to themselves" that the universe with its unfathomable life on earth is not the product of randomness, but is the precise action of a Supreme Designer.(Rom 12:1, 2)

False dichotomy.

The alternative to a "supreme designer" is not "total randomness".

 

[Athée]

For me, like others here, it comes down to a lack of evidence sufficient to justify belief. Simple as that.

 

[mindlight]

For me, like others here, it comes down to a lack of evidence sufficient to justify belief. Simple as that.

There is a whole range of evidence available from scripture, Christian saints and the life of Christ himself. That evidence is regarded as sufficient by billions of people.

It is the priorities ,filters, conclusions and presumptions that form your own interpretative models that explain why this evidence is not regarded as sufficient to you.

If you are seriously looking for God then those filters , priorities ,conclusions and presumptions will need exhaustive re-examination. My guess is that most of them would not survive honest scrutiny.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

There is a whole range of evidence available from scripture, Christian saints and the life of Christ himself.

I'm sure it's all very impressive, provided you already believe. I've been an atheist since my very earliest comprehension of the concept in day one of Miss Heflin's Sunday school class, so I do not find it impressive.

That evidence is regarded as sufficient by billions of people.

That assumes, of course, that all those billions are professing Christians because of the evidence, which I don't think you can substantiate.

Also, I shouldn't have to tell you that an appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy.

It is the priorities ,filters, conclusions and presumptions that form your own interpretative models that explain why this evidence is not regarded as sufficient to you. If you are seriously looking for God then those filters , priorities ,conclusions and presumptions will need exhaustive re-examination.

Correct. To become a believer, I could not keep my current standards for logical coherence and evidence. I would have to severely lower them.

My guess is that most of them would not survive honest scrutiny.

I am willing to put that to the test at any time.

 

[Athée]

There is a whole range of evidence available from scripture, Christian saints and the life of Christ himself. That evidence is regarded as sufficient by billions of people.

It is the priorities ,filters, conclusions and presumptions that form your own interpretative models that explain why this evidence is not regarded as sufficient to you.

If you are seriously looking for God then those filters , priorities ,conclusions and presumptions will need exhaustive re-examination. My guess is that most of them would not survive honest scrutiny.

I am convinced that you sincerely believe this to be the case. That said, if the evidence were as strong as you suggest there would be a lot less discussion on forums such as this one

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is a whole range of evidence available from scripture, Christian saints and the life of Christ himself. That evidence is regarded as sufficient by billions of people.

You and those billions of people (apparantly) call it "evidence", but really it's just the source of the claims.

The bible contains the claims. Claims aren't evidence. Claims require evidence in support of them. By definition, scripture can't be evidence, since scripture is the claim.

It is the priorities ,filters, conclusions and presumptions that form your own interpretative models that explain why this evidence is not regarded as sufficient to you.

Indeed. In the case of scripture being evidence, my "priorities ,filters, conclusions and presumptions" tell me that that is a fallacious circular argument.

If you are seriously looking for God then those filters , priorities ,conclusions and presumptions will need exhaustive re-examination

Indeed. Which is precisely the problem.
I'm not willing to throw out reason and "just believe" instead.

My guess is that most of them would not survive honest scrutiny.

Wrong guess.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I've studied many religions, and many mythologies, past and present, and find them all wanting. No exceptions.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[TLK Valentine]

The covenant God gave us with evidence of the bow He set in the clouds.

That just shows that water is capable of refracting light -- and it's not the only thing. You can get the same effect with a plastic prism.

Roses have thorns.

According to Bret Michaels, every rose does...

Many languages exist.

And there are many explanations why that is so.

John the Baptist is noted by even several other religions.
Josephus wrote of Christ.
Paul and Peter wrote about Christ.

Very few people are doubting that Jesus existed; the question is whether he said and did what he was credited with.

Egypt in Hebrew is the name of one of Noah's grandsons.

Chicken or the egg? Consider when the story was written...

just a few things to ponder

Pondered -- but I'm afraid they may not be quite as profound as you might think.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[TLK Valentine]

Tacitus (c. A.D. 55 - c. A.D. 117)

Annals, book XV:

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.

ok.... so?

As I said before -- very few people question the existence of Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm