Why no news about Climetgate ?

[Kylie]

No and I never intended to suggest that.

Christians argue amongst themselves continually. My point was that you and I have two very different foundational beliefs... This will lead you and I to have totally different ideas about what can and cannot happen to this universe.

When it comes to what can and cannot happen in this universe, I prefer to go with what investigation of reality has shown can happen.

Oh... I said that? Really?

You certainly implied it strongly when you said in post 134:

What gives man the arrogance to 1/ Think that they can stop natural universal forces such as climate. 2/ take money from their citizens to try to stop it..

Unlike you, I have faith in a creator... I have no worries about such nonsense as the world ending due to cows passing wind.​

To me that sure sounds like you are saying you have faith that the creator will step in and intervene if things ever get to bad, or that the creator will step in and intervene to make sure things never get too bad.

In fact I hold to the concept of "choose to sin..... choose to suffer". We live with the mistakes we make.

Do you think it is a mistake to pump out as much pollution into the world as we do today?

This world, based on the biblical scripture.. is not going to explode by being hit by a meteor... Burn up from global warming.... be totally wiped out by a nuclear war...over taken by beings from some land far far away..... or any other fanciful conceptual end..

The bible quite clearly states that there will be a one world government.... making it mandatory to take a mark which you will need to buy or sell.... then rebellion of different factions ending in an epic battle at Armageddon That God will stop or there would be no life left alive....

It's not going to be a "man made climate catastrophe".

You may be utterly confident that your interpretation of the Bible is correct, but do you think that's the viewpoint that everyone should be forced to live by?

I mean, what's the harm in taking action just in case you're wrong? Worried that we'll create a cleaner planet for no reason at all?

I agree. Absolutely...

However, that does not mean allowing governments to create fabricated concepts of impending doom and tax it's people into poverty for things that will never come to fruition.

I drive a fuel efficient car. I recycle, compost, take electronics and metal to proper drop offs.. I put out very little waste to the landfill. I am a lover of nature and treat all animals with kindness. I don't dump harmful products into the environment... I heat, and cook with propane... I wouldn't even have an air conditioner if it wasn't for my wife demanding it.

Very commendable.

If this world was really concerned about global warming.. They would stop the nonsense of things like TV's that last only 5 years, washers that last maybe 10, dishwashers, fridges, freezers that must go to the dump after a pathetic short life.. Toaster ovens, coffee makers, microwaves and other things that when a 5 cent part breaks.. you have to replace the entire unit.....

What ever happened to being able to take apart your toaster... popping in a $1.00 switch and having it last another 5 years? HUH?????

But they don't... The big business promotes a "throw away" society... Then they say we have to stop the "carbon footprint"...

It's nonsense... it's horse pucky..... They are liars and everyone just sits their in a comatose state nodding their heads and drinking their drinks out of throw away containers.. food in huge plastic containers... the list is endless.


They ...... don't ...... care.....

They just want your money...

So, don't assume anything about me..... you are wrong and have no basis for doing so..

I just totally disagree with "man made" climate change and I've seen enough evidence to see through their nonsense.

God is in control... I know how this story ends.

There is nothing in the bible about human extinction due to what they are predicting...

I agree with much here. It's not really going to be people living their lives that causes the problem. Like you said, it's companies that essentially design their products to fail so that when they do you have to replace the whole thing. It's companies encouraging waste like that so they can increase their profits. That's where the problem is. It's man made climate change, but that doesn't mean that it's the average joe. It's the big factories, the big companies that are responsible for it. The government tends to like it when they can make the average person feel it's primarily their fault, however, so they can pass laws like no plastic shopping bags and no plastic drinking straws while you've still got companies producing tons of pollution from their manufacturing plants that are creating a whole lot more pollution that average people ever will.

 

[JacksBratt]

When it comes to what can and cannot happen in this universe, I prefer to go with what investigation of reality has shown can happen.

So, you agree that we have different concepts of what or who is in control here.

You certainly implied it strongly when you said in post 134:

What gives man the arrogance to 1/ Think that they can stop natural universal forces such as climate. 2/ take money from their citizens to try to stop it..

Unlike you, I have faith in a creator... I have no worries about such nonsense as the world ending due to cows passing wind.​

To me that sure sounds like you are saying you have faith that the creator will step in and intervene if things ever get to bad, or that the creator will step in and intervene to make sure things never get too bad.

Nope... nowhere does that say what you implied in post # 139
"Unlike you, he doesn't see God as some parent figure who will come and clean our room when we've made a mess of it."

I look after my room. I suffer for the mess I make. God controls how big my room is. How many doors, windows, the temperature humidity and amount of light... How long I stay there and where I go when I leave.

You may be utterly confident that your interpretation of the Bible is correct, but do you think that's the viewpoint that everyone should be forced to live by?

Nope... you are free to live by any concepts that you feel like... This is a world of free choice.. Just watch out for Johnny Law... He'll put you in jail if you break his laws. We are all products of the decisions that we have made in our lives.

I mean, what's the harm in taking action just in case you're wrong? Worried that we'll create a cleaner planet for no reason at all?

I am taking action.. I am doing everything in my power to help the environment... I just refuse to support the idea that if they take more of my money that it is going to help... It's not going to help spouting out lies of some fabricated man made climate change.

Why not just state that we need to produce less waste... clamp down on planned obsolescence. Shoddy workmanship and actually look into some of the things that the real master minds of this universe, like Tesla.. who was going to give free electricity to everyone... and other things.. so they burned down his laboratory.

Very commendable.

I'll take a leap that this is not sarcasm... and just reply by saying that this is what people do when they are good stewards of the land and live as clean as they can.. or at least I do my best... Then I can feel right about my actions and effect on this earth and tell the government to BACK OFF and get its grubby paws off the little bit of money it leaves me with.

AND stop brain washing kids into thinking that grandpa left them a poisoned earth.

I agree with much here. It's not really going to be people living their lives that causes the problem. Like you said, it's companies that essentially design their products to fail so that when they do you have to replace the whole thing. It's companies encouraging waste like that so they can increase their profits. That's where the problem is. It's man made climate change, but that doesn't mean that it's the average joe. It's the big factories, the big companies that are responsible for it. The government tends to like it when they can make the average person feel it's primarily their fault, however, so they can pass laws like no plastic shopping bags and no plastic drinking straws while you've still got companies producing tons of pollution from their manufacturing plants that are creating a whole lot more pollution that average people ever will.

I agree with all that except the "man made climate change part". But , at least we made some progress.

 

[FredVB]

More and more people that I talk to are waking up to the farce of the "man made climate change". More are seeing that nothing that Gore warned about has come to fruition.
More are seeing that it's cyclic and the scaremongering is a money grab.


Sorry, it's not a game that one wins or loses.. It's a farce which gets exposed and then ignored.



Although there is great effort to hide the truth.. you are right... Science will be shown to be right.. and the farce of man made climate change will be exposed by truthful science that everyone will be able to see as the oceans don't rise and we don't flood New York.... and the polar bears are increasing in numbers.

CO2 is not pollution

I see this is in the Conspiracy forum now, where it should be, so that is good. Conspiracy about this remains unproven, climate scientists are overwhelming in agreement that climate change is happening and is still contributed to from modern human living in this world. We still rely heavily on the automobile system and there is agriculture, which makes an extremely great use of animals. As I said before there are no explanations ever for how the emissions cannot have the effect on the atmosphere, while everything that has been figured out shows those would. And it is right to find fault with those persisting in this same direction while we are certainly seeing things worsen, with climate but also with destruction of environments and very great extinction rate of species.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I see this is in the Conspiracy forum now, where it should be, so that is good. Conspiracy about this remains unproven, climate scientists are overwhelming in agreement that climate change is happening and is still contributed to from modern human living in this world. We still rely heavily on the automobile system and there is agriculture, which makes an extremely great use of animals. As I said before there are no explanations ever for how the emissions cannot have the effect on the atmosphere, while everything that has been figured out shows those would. And it is right to find fault with those persisting in this same direction while we are certainly seeing things worsen, with climate but also with destruction of environments and very great extinction rate of species.

Personally, I think that anything, where people are claiming that there is an es existential climate crisis, ought to be under a non-Christian religious forum. The jump from what is factual, i.e. the consensus of scientists agree that the climate is changing and that Co2 factors in that, to believing that there will be climate Armagedón unless we completely do away with whatever sin the climate religion is currently concentrating on, (fossil fuels, capitalism, cow farts, etc etc ) requires a huge leap of faith.

 

[JacksBratt]

I see this is in the Conspiracy forum now, where it should be, so that is good. Conspiracy about this remains unproven, climate scientists are overwhelming in agreement that climate change is happening and is still contributed to from modern human living in this world. We still rely heavily on the automobile system and there is agriculture, which makes an extremely great use of animals. As I said before there are no explanations ever for how the emissions cannot have the effect on the atmosphere, while everything that has been figured out shows those would. And it is right to find fault with those persisting in this same direction while we are certainly seeing things worsen, with climate but also with destruction of environments and very great extinction rate of species.

And you assume that I'm the conspiracy theorist.

Science is founded on the ability to challenge and question views... So, when someone says "the science is settled"... they are dead wrong.

Peer review and scientific papers are written to please the people who pay for the research. Those that disagree with the "hive mind" are discredited, lose tenure, lose careers, lose jobs, lose funding...

There are scientists that state that the "man made" is a joke. Everyone knows that the climate changes....

Funny, it's mid march and from what I hear on the radio broadcasts about the weather... is how cold it is and how long winter is going to last this year and complain, complain, complain about the amount of snow we got this year...
Then, they blab on about fixing climate change... and "weather isn't climate"...

I truly believe that if we got a foot of snow in April.. they'd call it climate change...

I can't wait until the big cities have to request budget increases to handle snow removal and sand and salt application increases... snow plow driver overtime over runs..... and..... blame it on "global warming"...

Nonsense.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Peer review and scientific papers are written to please the people who pay for the research. Those that disagree with the "hive mind" are discredited, lose tenure, lose careers, lose jobs, lose funding...

This is not how peer review works.

 

[Shemjaza]

And you assume that I'm the conspiracy theorist.

That's the conclusion that can be drawn from your posts.

Peer review and scientific papers are written to please the people who pay for the research. Those that disagree with the "hive mind" are discredited, lose tenure, lose careers, lose jobs, lose funding...

And right here a couple of paragraphs down is a conspiracy theory.

Well, that was an easy investigation.

 

[JacksBratt]

This is not how peer review works.

You mean that's not how they are supposed to work... Scientists are not stupid.. they know who signs their checks and what to say to keep the money flowing.

 

[JacksBratt]

That's the conclusion that can be drawn from your posts.

That was not my point.. My point was that your words could easily considerd as such.

And right here a couple of paragraphs down is a conspiracy theory.

Well, that was an easy investigation.

Time will tell. Slowly the truth is beginning to come out

 

[Shemjaza]

That was not my point.. My point was that your words could easily considerd as such.

Not really.

The concepts of "scientists are secretly colluding to present a false image of reality" and "That's silly, you don't have coherent mortice or evidence for that idea" are not equivalent as to be labelled as conspiracy theories.

Time will tell. Slowly the truth is beginning to come out

You'd think that a "truth" promoted by multiple billion dollar media and energy companies with the support of conservative members if governments all over the world would be able to present some coherent science...

 

[JacksBratt]

Not really.

The concepts of "scientists are secretly colluding to present a false image of reality" and "That's silly, you don't have coherent mortice or evidence for that idea" are not equivalent as to be labelled as conspiracy theories.



You'd think that a "truth" promoted by multiple billion dollar media and energy companies with the support of conservative members if governments all over the world would be able to present some coherent science...

You don't even have to go to science... They continue to state that one of the great fears and devastation to come.. is the rising sea levels.

Yet, these mega rich wealthy elite continue to buy mansions on the sea.... These people are not dumb.. but they believe we are.

None of the predictions made in Al Gores fake documentary have come true...

The winter here in Canada is still "hanging on" as the radio announcers are continually complaining about how slow spring is coming.. and how the next few weeks don't have any warm temperatures...how much snow we have had... ( two feet at my door on March 4th ) Then... we are told to believe that there is damaging warming.

I've lived here for 60 years and the ice doesn't go out of the lake any sooner than it used to.

It did take until after Christmas to freeze one year... but it did the same thing in 1936 as well.....

This is a great big lie and it is taking money from our pockets and putting it in the pockets of the already rich.

 

[sjastro]

You don't even have to go to science... They continue to state that one of the great fears and devastation to come.. is the rising sea levels.

Yet, these mega rich wealthy elite continue to buy mansions on the sea.... These people are not dumb.. but they believe we are.

None of the predictions made in Al Gores fake documentary have come true...

The winter here in Canada is still "hanging on" as the radio announcers are continually complaining about how slow spring is coming.. and how the next few weeks don't have any warm temperatures...how much snow we have had... ( two feet at my door on March 4th ) Then... we are told to believe that there is damaging warming.

I've lived here for 60 years and the ice doesn't go out of the lake any sooner than it used to.

It did take until after Christmas to freeze one year... but it did the same thing in 1936 as well.....

This is a great big lie and it is taking money from our pockets and putting it in the pockets of the already rich.

 

[Hans Blaster]

You mean that's not how they are supposed to work... Scientists are not stupid.. they know who sings their checks and what to say to keep the money flowing.

No. That's not what I mean. I mean that your characterization of peer review is wrong, offensive and insulting. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Shemjaza]

You don't even have to go to science...

That's the problem when you can't support your position with data.

They continue to state that one of the great fears and devastation to come.. is the rising sea levels.

Yet, these mega rich wealthy elite continue to buy mansions on the sea.... These people are not dumb.. but they believe we are.

Rising sea levels is about long term and wide spread devastation to the ecology and our civilisation... not about a tidal wave in the next few decades.

The very rich can have their nice houses on the coast for the rest of their natural life... but the sea level rise over the next century would damage the farm land an large scale living conditions for the poor near any water ways.

None of the predictions made in Al Gores fake documentary have come true...

It's a little old and it was certainly taking the most confronting theories of the time... but as a rule don't get your science from either concerned laymen ex-politicians or from randoms on the internet.

The winter here in Canada is still "hanging on" as the radio announcers are continually complaining about how slow spring is coming.. and how the next few weeks don't have any warm temperatures...how much snow we have had... ( two feet at my door on March 4th ) Then... we are told to believe that there is damaging warming.

Just look at actual evidence for the change in temperatures over the long period.

I've lived here for 60 years and the ice doesn't go out of the lake any sooner than it used to.

It did take until after Christmas to freeze one year... but it did the same thing in 1936 as well.....

Again we're at one random guys feelings rather than data,

This is a great big lie and it is taking money from our pockets and putting it in the pockets of the already rich.

Patently ridiculous as an assessment when we have propaganda from energy companies and reactionary media lumped in with "us".

 

[JacksBratt]

No. That's not what I mean. I mean that your characterization of peer review is wrong, offensive and insulting. You have no idea what you are talking about.

So, you believe that highly controversial and politicized topics, such as climate change, ivermectin, vaccines, and others that are hot topics and even pinnacle to world news right now.... are free from corruption, when grants, careers, accreditation, tenure, and public character assassinations are at stake.. the peers of papers that discuss these things, are not rife with corruption, bias and lies that are perpetuated in order to maintain an agenda that is put in place by those that have all the money and hold the keys to livelihood of those putting their names to these reviews?

We only have to look at the now exposed control that has been placed over Facebook and Twitter in connection to the Hunter Biden laptop and anything that didn't fit the far left agenda. Control placed on them by funding and infiltration of the FBI... to understand that truth is a very very difficult thing to find these days.

So, no... peer review is no longer the "gospel" truth or an even remotely credible "gold standard" method to judge or vet any paper written. It's a broken system that has fallen to the control of those with the gold.

 

[JacksBratt]

So, is taxing citizens to death so that they can not afford housing, food, school, heating, and a basic acceptable standard of living.... making it a better world?

I do my part to be a good steward of this earth. My carbon footprint is nothing compared to some of these so called gurus of green life...

We are not going to do away with oil... anytime soon. Forcing a world to move to substandard problematic inadequate technologies is not the answer.

It's a scam.. It's a lie.. It's a well funded, well promoted, highly corrupt method of control over the world.

Canada has 1.5% of global CO2 emissions. Even if I was to believe that CO2 has any consequence on climate.. this 1.5%, if changed to 0%.... is not going to do anything compared to the vast increases in CO2 emissions created by countries that are more worried about being able to eat and survive..... and don't give a pinch of care about the global panic created by those that have, obviously, more money than these countries themselves.... excepting China of course... that flips the bird to all of this.

So, why is Trudeau so gung ho on taxing us to death.... when we are already fantastic at maintaining ultra low CO2 emissions on a global scale.

He does it because his puppet-masters tell him to.

 

[sjastro]

So, is taxing citizens to death so that they can not afford housing, food, school, heating, and a basic acceptable standard of living.... making it a better world?

I do my part to be a good steward of this earth. My carbon footprint is nothing compared to some of these so called gurus of green life...

We are not going to do away with oil... anytime soon. Forcing a world to move to substandard problematic inadequate technologies is not the answer.

It's a scam.. It's a lie.. It's a well funded, well promoted, highly corrupt method of control over the world.

Even blind Freddie can see this for its blatant contradiction.
How can you claim to be “a good steward of this earth” to then go on and state as a global activity “It's a scam.. It's a lie.. It's a well funded, well promoted, highly corrupt method of control over the world.”
It’s either an insincere boast or you are being duped by the very forces of your conspiratorial nonsense.

Canada has 1.5% of global CO2 emissions. Even if I was to believe that CO2 has any consequence on climate.. this 1.5%, if changed to 0%.... is not going to do anything compared to the vast increases in CO2 emissions created by countries that are more worried about being able to eat and survive..... and don't give a pinch of care about the global panic created by those that have, obviously, more money than these countries themselves.... excepting China of course... that flips the bird to all of this.

So, why is Trudeau so gung ho on taxing us to death.... when we are already fantastic at maintaining ultra low CO2 emissions on a global scale.

He does it because his puppet-masters tell him to.

This is a nonsensical argument.
Canada puts out 1.5% of CO₂ global emissions because it has a population of only 38 million and is therefore a medium size developed economy.
Developed economies produce more emissions than the undeveloped economies of countries “that are more worried about being able to eat and survive…”

To show how “fantastic” Canada is doing a more realistic picture is to look at its global emissions per capita which paint a very different picture.
It has one of the highest in the world, larger than the USA and considerably greater than China’s.

CO2 Emissions per Capita - Worldometer

Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Emissions per Capita for each Country in the world

www.worldometers.info

If all these medium sized developed economies like Canada and Australia which produce global CO₂ emissions in the 1-1.5% range decided to do nothing then collectively their emissions do become significant.

 

[Hans Blaster]

So, you believe that highly controversial and politicized topics, such as climate change, ivermectin, vaccines, and others that are hot topics and even pinnacle to world news right now.... are free from corruption, when grants, careers, accreditation, tenure, and public character assassinations are at stake.. the peers of papers that discuss these things, are not rife with corruption, bias and lies that are perpetuated in order to maintain an agenda that is put in place by those that have all the money and hold the keys to livelihood of those putting their names to these reviews?

First you impugned *ALL* of science with your accusations of corruption. I take umbrage at your accusations against me and my colleagues.

Second, here your are still casting aspersion at all work related to climate and COVID for being "controversial". Again, there is zero evidence that malfeasance and corruption is pervasive or even common in these areas.

Finally, peer reviewers are kept anonymous in nearly all cases of all areas of science. That is intentional. It prevents things from breaking down in to petty personality fights and focuses on the research and paper at question.

We only have to look at the now exposed control that has been placed over Facebook and Twitter in connection to the Hunter Biden laptop and anything that didn't fit the far left agenda. Control placed on them by funding and infiltration of the FBI... to understand that truth is a very very difficult thing to find these days.

This bit of paranoia has nothing whatsoever to do with science, climate change, or peer review.

So, no... peer review is no longer the "gospel" truth or an even remotely credible "gold standard" method to judge or vet any paper written. It's a broken system that has fallen to the control of those with the gold.

Peer review of a single paper is never (and has never been) a guarantee that reported work has no flaws.

 

[FredVB]

Personally, I think that anything, where people are claiming that there is an es existential climate crisis, ought to be under a non-Christian religious forum. The jump from what is factual, i.e. the consensus of scientists agree that the climate is changing and that Co2 factors in that, to believing that there will be climate Armagedón unless we completely do away with whatever sin the climate religion is currently concentrating on, (fossil fuels, capitalism, cow farts, etc etc ) requires a huge leap of faith.

I might answer that anyone posting what is untruthful for supporting their accusations, as this has been shown to be the case, belongs just on forums that are not Christian. Nothing ever shows how all the emissions from use of fuels and manufacturing of items and all of agriculture with great use of animals, all of which have been greatly increasing over the decades for many centuries, could not be the contribution they are, and anything else being claimed other than human contribution has been shown to not be the case. And nothing I post about is contrary to my Christianity and all of those are essential to it, as being truthful as far as I can manage is needed. I would not make those allegations that have no proof that can be shown.

 

[FredVB]

Not only are the evidences of critical climate change resulting from our industrial society not contrary to Christianity, there are biblical prophetic passages suggestive of results of that.

Luke 21
...distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth.