Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

[Divide]

Why would I need a doctor because a voice told me to pray for someone?

Another time the voice said to help a lady out and give her some money. I gave her 20 dollars. Would I need a doctor for that too? It was not an audible voice that time, but the still small voice that time. I'm sorry brother, but I'm just not seeing any danger here. And nothing a doctor could help with either. Is being kind to our fellow man contagious? I would hope so.

 

[Jjmcubbin]

Yep, that's what they tell me. It's dangerous...but uh, in what way? Would you have any examples of when it ended bad for someone? What happened? What is the danger?

Google schizophrenia. It can always become worse. Like rabies, or cancer. They have stages, and you'd be a fool to think it won't get worse.

 

[Skreeper]

Not at all. I am certain what the cause of this voice was.

You are aware that there is such a thing called delusions and mental disorders? How can you rule them out when you haven't talked to a doctor about this?

Doing everything it says could end badly I suppose if...it told me to go harm or kill others...but it didn't tell me to hurt anyone, it told me to pray for someone who needs help...and then they did get the help, so I'm not making the connection that you seem to be making. How did we get from, pray for a man, to...kill him?

It hasn't told you to do something bad yet but don't you think it might be a possibility in the future? Would you just blindly do everything it tells you?

 

[Divide]

Google schizophrenia. It can always become worse. Like rabies, or cancer. They have stages, and you'd be a fool to think it won't get worse.

Say what?! God spoke to me and so I'm schizophrenic?! Lol. You know, that is very typical of the type of things that I hear from people when speaking about this subject. I think this whole attitude of fear and danger about being led by the Spirit of God was originally designed with the purpose of getting people scared to try to be in contact with God or his Spirit.

Are you scared of God?

 

[Divide]

You are aware that there is such a thing called delusions and mental disorders? How can you rule them out when you haven't talked to a doctor about this?



It hasn't told you to do something bad yet but don't you think it might be a possibility in the future? Would you just blindly do everything it tells you?

I am aware that there is such a thing as mental disorders. I do not have or have ever had any mental problems or disorders, so why would I rule them in with this? What is it about what happened that makes you think that it's delusions or some disorder? Where is your fear about this based in? What about it makes you think that it's a bad thing, or that He will eventually tell me to go on a murder spree or something like that?

No man, I would not just go and blindly obey a voice that told me to go kill. That's a ridiculous assumption. If I were to be told to go harm someone, why would I think that it was God telling me to do so, when I know that God does not roll like that?

Something has you guys pretty scared about all this. That would indicate to me that you have very little, if any knowledge of God or His message to mankind. Otherwise, you wouldn't be talking about this in the way that you are.

Ok so, as far as I can tell, we have 3 voices in our head that speak to us. Us, God, and satan. It's actually fairly easy to discern God over an evil spirit. God's voice would never contradict anything found in scripture. Scripture says, thou shalt not murder people. So a voice saying go murder someone, would not be of God. It's a fairly easy thing to discern things like that. Some may call it common sense. On the other hand, if an unidentified voice said, pray for a man that needs help...that sounds like something that God would say and would be inline with scripture.

So...where's the red flag coming from about it? It is within your own fears brother. It is true, that when one begins to learn about God and His ways, that it begins with a fear of God. But the deeper that one goes into his relationship with God and learning about Him, the more love is cultivated within us and then the love casts out the fear and it turns into an absolute love message.

So the very key to the supernatural and walking in it, is in learning to walk in love towards our fellow man. This is the same for all who claim Jesus as their Lord and it does not later...turn into hate. I would suppose that you have stopped reading your bible and praying or you would have learned these things already about Him.

Got anything else?

 

[DogmaHunter]

I've done my homework and that's WHY you cannot refute me either Scripturally, Scientifically nor Historically. It's really easy to refute you (prove you wrong) since you obviously cannot read and comprehend....as evidenced above.

If it's so easy, then you and your revolutionary knowledge would have made the front pages of every newspaper and would have received a bunch of nobel prizes.

In reality, you just have very bizar faith based beliefs that fly in the face of a scientific understanding of the universe.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Aha! The old "Huh-uhhh" defense, lol.

When you are confronted with a "just so" fantastical claim and when the answer to "how do you know?" is limited to "i just know", then what other reply could you possibly expect?

There's nothing there to respond to. I can only shrug my shoulders, say "uhu" and walk away. Additionally, I could make my own "just so" statements (pulled out of thin air) and the "support" those assertions with the same "i just know" that you used.

Would you care? Would you give my assertions even a nano-second of honest consideration? I say, that you would not.

Why would you expect otherwise when it is you doing the baseless just-so assertions?

So don't believe me if you don't want to

It's not about what I "want". It's about what is and isn't rationally justifiable.
I can't rationally justify accepting "just so" fantastical claims.
So I don't.

But it's true, it happened and I wasn't hallucinating.
So there you are.

The fact of the matter is that there are 1001 plausible explanations for your "experiences" with none of them being "it was supernatural".

And you have given me nothing to assume otherwise.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yep, that's what they tell me. It's dangerous...but uh, in what way?

I'ld say "ask the children of that woman that drown her 3 kids in the bathtub after she heared God asking her to do so". But it would be dificult to do so, because those 3 kids are dead.

Would you have any examples of when it ended bad for someone? What happened? What is the danger?

The danger is that what you think is the voice of god, is actually not the voice of god but just you suffering from some type of hallucination like in a psychosis or something.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Not at all. I am certain what the cause of this voice was.

So was that woman who drowned her 3 kids.

You cannot be certain as you were not there and did not hear it. Doing everything it says could end badly I suppose if...it told me to go harm or kill others...but it didn't tell me to hurt anyone, it told me to pray for someone who needs help...and then they did get the help, so I'm not making the connection that you seem to be making. How did we get from, pray for a man, to...kill him?

Additionally, if you indeed are suffering from a psychosis-like episode (even if the voices seem to be give you harmless commandments), if it remains untreated you run a great risk of suffering from brain damage. This might lead to loss of reasoning ability, memory impairment, loss of focus / concentration capability for prolonged periods, becoming apathic/catatonic, etc. Not necessarily, but it certainly can.

When one hears voices that nobody else can hear, then you need to visit a psychiatrist.

The difficult part here, is realising that hearing voices is not normal. Usually, in patients with accute psychosis, there is no self-awareness of the condition. This is why it is dificult to treat these patients as well, because more often then not, they don't think there is anything wrong with them.

Brother, have you not heard the gospel message of God? It's all about walking in love towards our brothers and sisters of the earth. It's not about hurting people or killing people.

Tell it to the christians in nigeria that are killing people accused of being witches and vampires.
Tell it to that christian woman that drowned her 3 kids upon believing that god asked her to do so.
Tell it to the victims of the inquisition, the KKK,...

You believe this now. What if tomorrow that voice you hear starts telling you to kill non-christians? I know you don't believe that that will happen. But what if it does? And you are convinced that it is a commandment from god? What then? Will you "rebel"? Or will you do as you are told?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Why would I need a doctor because a voice told me to pray for someone?

Because "hearing voices" is generally not considered normal.
And is a known symptom of psychiatric conditions.

Is being kind to our fellow man contagious? I would hope so.

What the voices say is irrelevant.
The fact that you are hearing voices is what is relevant. And not normal.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Say what?! God spoke to me and so I'm schizophrenic?!

Schizophrenia is just one condition in context of which that auditory hallucinations can manifest, during accute episodes of psychosis.

Auditory hallucinations can manifest in context of many different psychiatric conditions.

Lol. You know, that is very typical of the type of things that I hear from people when speaking about this subject

Perhaps you should take a hint?
I mean, many people indeed ARE aware that "hearing voices" is a very clear sign and well-known symptom of some psychiatric condition...

How exactly have you ruled it out?

I think this whole attitude of fear and danger about being led by the Spirit of God was originally designed with the purpose of getting people scared to try to be in contact with God or his Spirit.

You think wrongly.
"Hearing voices" is not okay.

 

[Skreeper]

I am aware that there is such a thing as mental disorders. I do not have or have ever had any mental problems or disorders, so why would I rule them in with this?

I am not claiming that you have a mental disorder, I am just saying there is no harm in doing a psychological evaluation to make sure.

What is it about what happened that makes you think that it's delusions or some disorder? Where is your fear about this based in? What about it makes you think that it's a bad thing, or that He will eventually tell me to go on a murder spree or something like that?

I speak from experience. I had an uncle who died 6 years ago. One year prior he started to hear the voice of his dead wife. We urged him to seek help but he didnt. According to the letter he left behind, the voice of his wife told him after a while that they could be together again if he killed himself. And since he was absolutely sure it was his wife, he took his life.

That's why hearing an audible voice in your head is a bad sign.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I am not claiming that you have a mental disorder, I am just saying there is no harm in doing a psychological evaluation to make sure.



I speak from experience. I had an uncle who died 6 years ago. One year prior he started to hear the voice of his dead wife. We urged him to seek help but he didnt. According to the letter he left behind, the voice of his wife told him after a while that they could be together again if he killed himself. And since he was absolutely sure it was his wife, he took his life.

That's why hearing an audible voice in your head is a bad sign.

Sorry to hear that bro.
I've had a few nasty encounters with psychiatric conditions as well, one specifically "very close" to me. It was not a pleasant experience (for all parties involved). This was quite a few years ago, but we still carry the "scars" or the rather traumatic experience with us. It's not easy at all. During the accute period, one doesn't stop and reflect on the situation... then the focus is completely on controlling it and pulling through. Once under control and "pulled through" though, when the dust settles, one starts realising what just happened over those few weeks and psychologically, it is very confrontational.

Luckily it was kept under control before any real harm was done, but the entire thing was quite.... impactfull.

I'll also add that auditory (or otherwise) hallucinations aren't restricted to mental disorders either. It can have somatic causes as well. High fever is one. Several infections can cause it. Eating the wrong kind of mushroom can cause it. A brain tumor can cause it (and it doesn't even need to be a bad cancerous one either). Heck, sitting in the sun too long can trigger hallucinations....

There's literally dozens, hundreds, of known and plausible and demonstrable causes of hallucination.

And from ALL cases that were ever properly investigated, NOT ONCE was the conclusion that the voice was real and originated from some supernatural entity........................

 

[Aman777]

Then why do you come off as a complete kook?

Because I tell you of God's Truth of the last days before Jesus returns and most are still repeating the ancient superstitious views of men who lived thousands of years BEFORE Science? Dan 12:4 Yeah, that's it. Why do you come off as someone who loves evil more than good?

 

[Divide]

Tell it to the christians in nigeria that are killing people accused of being witches and vampires.
Tell it to that christian woman that drowned her 3 kids upon believing that god asked her to do so.
Tell it to the victims of the inquisition, the KKK,...

You believe this now. What if tomorrow that voice you hear starts telling you to kill non-christians? I know you don't believe that that will happen. But what if it does? And you are convinced that it is a commandment from god? What then? Will you "rebel"? Or will you do as you are told?

Maybe those people were sick. There is real mental illness. So you're reaching pretty far to try and liken me to a mental case. Like any time anyone has ever said that they hear voices and they go kill someone...makes me a mental case because God spoke to me?

When one hears voices that nobody else can hear, then you need to visit a psychiatrist.

The difficult part here, is realising that hearing voices is not normal. Usually, in patients with accute psychosis, there is no self-awareness of the condition. This is why it is dificult to treat these patients as well, because more often then not, they don't think there is anything wrong with them.

You're trying awful hard to make me out to be a mental case. I don't hear voices all the time. God spoke to me that one time. It never happened before that, it hasn't happened again after that. If I was a mental case then there would be other indicators. Hmm, let's see here. I've never been in trouble, never been to prison, I was married for 26 years to the same girl who has my only kids of anyone in the world, I've been self employed for myself since 1994, I've never been charged with any sort of violent crime, never had a DUI (ever), I've carried a concealed 45 automatic pistol for over thirty years and never had a weapons charge, never been in a fight which ended with cops showing up, never been to any sort of rehab or anything like that...and you think I'm a mental case?! Lol. Yeah, uh-huh. Really sounds like a guy with problems huh? Not!. Sorry to disappoint ya, lol.

I know you'd like to believe that I am, but it just isn't so.

 

[Aman777]

If it's so easy, then you and your revolutionary knowledge would have made the front pages of every newspaper and would have received a bunch of nobel prizes.

In reality, you just have very bizar faith based beliefs that fly in the face of a scientific understanding of the universe.

When they find the bottom half of Adam's firmament in Lake Van, Turkey, there will be many who tell of some kook posting of this discovery long before it was found. An army of former evols will be laughed at for telling others this. God Bless you

 

[Divide]

I am not claiming that you have a mental disorder, I am just saying there is no harm in doing a psychological evaluation to make sure.



I speak from experience. I had an uncle who died 6 years ago. One year prior he started to hear the voice of his dead wife. We urged him to seek help but he didnt. According to the letter he left behind, the voice of his wife told him after a while that they could be together again if he killed himself. And since he was absolutely sure it was his wife, he took his life.

That's why hearing an audible voice in your head is a bad sign.

Wow, sorry to hear that man. But it has nothing to do with me. I don't hear dead people's voices, it was GOD. And it didn't end badly for anyone. A man who needed help got some help. I hesitate to say that a life was saved, because he prolly would have lived without divine help...but I don't really know for sure. I'm not a doctor and do not know much about diabetes and how dangerous it can be if their blood sugar gets out of wack. Can people die from episodes like that? I dunno. All I know is that He asked me to pray for the man.

So, nah, I don't need any psychological evaluation. I seem to be having my chit together better than most, from what I can tell.

 

[Skreeper]

So, nah, I don't need any psychological evaluation. I seem to be having my chit together better than most, from what I can tell.

You definitely need a psychological evaluation. Everyone should do one at least once if you ask me.
Hearing a voice in your head that others cant hear is not "having your chit together".

 

[bhsmte]

Wow, sorry to hear that man. But it has nothing to do with me. I don't hear dead people's voices, it was GOD. And it didn't end badly for anyone. A man who needed help got some help. I hesitate to say that a life was saved, because he prolly would have lived without divine help...but I don't really know for sure. I'm not a doctor and do not know much about diabetes and how dangerous it can be if their blood sugar gets out of wack. Can people die from episodes like that? I dunno. All I know is that He asked me to pray for the man.

So, nah, I don't need any psychological evaluation. I seem to be having my chit together better than most, from what I can tell.

Here is the reality about humans.

We can convince ourselves of just about anything, if we have a strong enough psychological need to do so.

 

[HitchSlap]

Because I tell you of God's Truth of the last days before Jesus returns and most are still repeating the ancient superstitious views of men who lived thousands of years BEFORE Science? Dan 12:4 Yeah, that's it. Why do you come off as someone who loves evil more than good?

Maybe you're incapable of telling the difference? You seem to have a loose grasp on reality.