Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

[Jimmy D]

I have a feeling that if scientists met Jesus today, one of their first questions to Him would be:

What planet are you from?

Shouldn't you be asking Aman777 that question? He's the one who is trying to convince us of inter-dimensional arks etc.

 

[Aman777]

"Science, that I can accept because it doesn't conflict with my interpretation of scripture, 100% agrees with my interpretation of scripture"

It would be more accurate, but I expect even you can see how ridiculous a statement that is.

I agree that your view of what I say is ridiculous. Here's my view:

True Science is fact and the ToE is not a fact. It is based on facts which supposedly point to a truth, but it is nothing more than a False Assumption of those facts. The false assumption is that Humans (descendants of Adam) evolved from the common ancestor of Apes. That is false and based on incomplete information about Humanity's true origin.

This incomplete assumption cannot be supported by the agreement of Scripture Science and History since the ToE fails miserably to tell us WHERE the evolved being came from. Only by Magic can mindless Nature install Adam's superior intelligence in Apes. The ToE also uses FAITH in Science to spread it's blasphemous view that changeable Science is a better account, than God's Holy Word which changes NOT.

 

[Aman777]

Shouldn't you be asking Aman777 that question? He's the one who is trying to convince us of inter-dimensional arks etc.

God made Adam's firmament, which He called Heaven, on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8
Lord God/Jesus made other HeavenS on the 3rd Day, Gen 2:4 the SAME Day Adam's Earth was made. Can you tell us How many HeavenS were made? Is it more than three? or just one?

 

[PsychoSarah]

That's a little funny because...that's sorta what I do at work, lol. Perhaps a better rendition of the question would be, Basically, anyone that seriously uses it is unknowingly showing the world that they have little understanding how atheists think?

Uh, no. If you honestly think that the 2nd law of thermodynamics is a barrier to life existing on this planet, you have misunderstood thermodynamics.

 

[MissRowy]

And just out of curiosity, what are you a student of?

I am doing a Bachelor of Science (Forensic) and I think it was a tagline.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am doing a Bachelor of Science (Forensic) and I think it was a tagline.

You won't see any of my epithelials at the scene of the crime!

 

[MissRowy]

I sure hope not! Because I am based in Australia!!

 

[Divide]

Educatees can't think outside the box.

They can only harp about what they can see in a telescope or microscope and draw on paper, and refuse to admit there's a much, Much, MUCH larger spiritual realm in operation.

Acts 23:8a For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit:

Yeah, that's it. They don't realize just how big this closed system is.

 

[Divide]

Uh, no. If you honestly think that the 2nd law of thermodynamics is a barrier to life existing on this planet, you have misunderstood thermodynamics.

Not at all, it's not a barrier to life. It simply indicates that it didn't happen by chance.

 

[Divide]

No, that makes little sense I'm afraid.



Given your expertise on the subject, I'd be interested to see your take on why the 2nd LOT is a problem for us "scientificologists".

I realize that it makes no sense to you. That's to be expected I think, for spiritual matters are spiritually discerned, and you are earthly educated.

I could give you my take on that, but it wouldn't make sense to you either for the same reason.

I used to regret not having gone to college. Now I'm glad I didn't because my head would prolly be all screwed up now. It's interesting to note that none of Jesus's disciples were educated men...except one. The one who betrayed Him. (Judas)

 

[PsychoSarah]

Not at all, it's not a barrier to life. It simply indicates that it didn't happen by chance.

No... I have no idea why you would make that conclusion. The universe has so much energy in it that it can be organized and utilized long before it disperses thanks to entropy, and life obeys entropy. Do you not know how much of the energy you use is just wasted as heat?

 

[Jimmy D]

I realize that it makes no sense to you. That's to be expected I think, for spiritual matters are spiritually discerned, and you are earthly educated.

I could give you my take on that, but it wouldn't make sense to you either for the same reason.

I used to regret not having gone to college. Now I'm glad I didn't because my head would prolly be all screwed up now. It's interesting to note that none of Jesus's disciples were educated men...except one. The one who betrayed Him. (Judas)

What a cop out.

 

[Divide]

No... I have no idea why you would make that conclusion. The universe has so much energy in it that it can be organized and utilized long before it disperses thanks to entropy, and life obeys entropy. Do you not know how much of the energy you use is just wasted as heat?

I don't know how much is wasted as heat (Lol). I wouldn't know how to measure it. I know it is, just not how much.

You know, this topic of creation and evolution and all that is a hot topic on many boards, not just this one. I participate on other boards so I think about this quite frequently. The more time passes, the more it becomes obvious to me that this isn't all random chance. When I listen to atheists and evolutionists, I do try to be fair and set aside my preconceptions long enough to hear them out and actually consider the possibility of it mayyybe being true. I can get my head wrapped around the possibility of a form of life percolating in some primordial goo and spawning life, I really can.

I watch quite a few documentaries also. I recently was watching one (I forget exactly which one)...and they made the statement that, there are literally thousands upon thousands of different species of life upon this planet, and that, we haven't even discovered them all yet! New discoveries are made daily almost in this age of advanced technologies...then my mind flashed back to the evolution thing again and how a random big bang brought all of this about.

And then it hit me...a form of life from the primordial goo, or thousands upon thousands of different ones?! No way. There's too many different forms of life here for it to even be reasonably considered by any thinking man, let alone Christians. If life was that easy to make then we could do it too. We can't. You don't even know if you will be able to get a tadpole to change it's color or not, but you're hoping it will. Personally, I hope you can and it's successful. I don't think you will be able to, but I'll keep an open mind and wait and see.

So yeah, ya'll can have your physics and embrace them and think you know something. I don't have to dive into physics and get 8 years of college to know you folks in that camp are wrong. All I have to do is to step outside and look for myself. Who cares what people say. Have you ever went and looked for yourself? It's pretty obvious. Strangely enough...the Bible says the same thing. No one will have excuse on judgement day because the creation speaks for itself.

Thousands upon thousands...

 

[Divide]

What a cop out.

Aw, no offense brother. I just don't want to argue with you. You're strong headed and set in your thinking, I can tell.

 

[Jimmy D]

Aw, no offense brother. I just don't want to argue with you. You're strong headed and set in your thinking, I can tell.

None taken my friend.

I thought that there might be some rationale behind your assertion and expressed an interest.

 

[Jimmy D]

I don't know how much is wasted as heat (Lol). I wouldn't know how to measure it. I know it is, just not how much.

You know, this topic of creation and evolution and all that is a hot topic on many boards, not just this one. I participate on other boards so I think about this quite frequently. The more time passes, the more it becomes obvious to me that this isn't all random chance. When I listen to atheists and evolutionists, I do try to be fair and set aside my preconceptions long enough to hear them out and actually consider the possibility of it mayyybe being true. I can get my head wrapped around the possibility of a form of life percolating in some primordial goo and spawning life, I really can.

We should all try and keep an open mind.

I watch quite a few documentaries also. I recently was watching one (I forget exactly which one)...and they made the statement that, there are literally thousands upon thousands of different species of life upon this planet, and that, we haven't even discovered them all yet! New discoveries are made daily almost in this age of advanced technologies...then my mind flashed back to the evolution thing again and how a random big bang brought all of this about.

So how do you account for the diversity of life on Earth?

And then it hit me...a form of life from the primordial goo, or thousands upon thousands of different ones?! No way. There's too many different forms of life here for it to even be reasonably considered by any thinking man, let alone Christians. If life was that easy to make then we could do it too. We can't. You don't even know if you will be able to get a tadpole to change it's color or not, but you're hoping it will. Personally, I hope you can and it's successful. I don't think you will be able to, but I'll keep an open mind and wait and see.

Maybe if you didn't use words like "scientificologists" your claim about keeping an open mind would be more convincing.

So yeah, ya'll can have your physics and embrace them and think you know something. I don't have to dive into physics and get 8 years of college to know you folks in that camp are wrong. All I have to do is to step outside and look for myself. Who cares what people say. Have you ever went and looked for yourself? It's pretty obvious. Strangely enough...the Bible says the same thing. No one will have excuse on judgement day because the creation speaks for itself.

The hubris of the creationist.

So you don't have to study physics to proclaim that it's wrong? I'd suggest that you do, otherwise you can end up saying silly things like this...

"The 2nd law of thermodynamics states that everything moves from order to disorder. So how could evolution be true? How could the big bang be true? and so forth..."

 

[PsychoSarah]

I don't know how much is wasted as heat (Lol). I wouldn't know how to measure it. I know it is, just not how much.

From what I can find, a human cell wastes more than 70% of the energy consumed in food.

You know, this topic of creation and evolution and all that is a hot topic on many boards, not just this one. I participate on other boards so I think about this quite frequently. The more time passes, the more it becomes obvious to me that this isn't all random chance. When I listen to atheists and evolutionists, I do try to be fair and set aside my preconceptions long enough to hear them out and actually consider the possibility of it mayyybe being true. I can get my head wrapped around the possibility of a form of life percolating in some primordial goo and spawning life, I really can.

Good for you, but you could have cut this completely out of your post, since it makes no claims and brings no evidence.

I watch quite a few documentaries also. I recently was watching one (I forget exactly which one)...and they made the statement that, there are literally thousands upon thousands of different species of life upon this planet, and that, we haven't even discovered them all yet!

XD thousands, wow, not the best source if they think thousands is the best description. Since the current estimate of living species on this planet (with estimations on the ones not yet discovered included) is 8.7 million and (as per a source I found) that means 86% of species on this planet have yet to be identified, that makes for over 1.2 million species already identified.

Also, why would the number of species matter to you or be particularly impressive, especially considering that the vast majority are microscopic?

New discoveries are made daily almost in this age of advanced technologies...then my mind flashed back to the evolution thing again and how a random big bang brought all of this about.

And then it hit me...a form of life from the primordial goo, or thousands upon thousands of different ones?! No way. There's too many different forms of life here for it to even be reasonably considered by any thinking man, let alone Christians.

-_- that would only be true if genomes were unchanging. Since they change constantly, it'd be weird if there wasn't a huge variety of species on a planet that has had life for over 3 billion years.

If life was that easy to make then we could do it too. We can't.

Uh... humans have made new species before. A large portion of food crops are the result of artificial selection by us, for example.

You don't even know if you will be able to get a tadpole to change it's color or not, but you're hoping it will. Personally, I hope you can and it's successful. I don't think you will be able to, but I'll keep an open mind and wait and see.

Even though people have done such a simple thing plenty of times before? You can look all you like, but you'll never find an entirely red Venus flytrap in the wild. Heck, I'm sure you've seen some of these for sale before: https://d6p0gevo8s9lm.cloudfront.ne...6e95/E/4/E425808939209B31D4AAC30D35F86A25.jpg
Ever wondered why the stem isn't near as prickly as the rest? That's because it's a graph from a different plant species entirely. These cacti have a mutation that makes them unable to produce chlorophyll, so they have to be graphed onto a compatible plant that does have chlorophyll in order to survive. Understandably, these things can't survive in the wild, but the wild type that doesn't have this mutation can.

So yeah, ya'll can have your physics and embrace them and think you know something. I don't have to dive into physics and get 8 years of college to know you folks in that camp are wrong. All I have to do is to step outside and look for myself. Who cares what people say. Have you ever went and looked for yourself? It's pretty obvious. Strangely enough...the Bible says the same thing. No one will have excuse on judgement day because the creation speaks for itself.

Thousands upon thousands...

It really doesn't, considering the extreme flaws in life forms and how unsuitable the majority of the universe is for life. My breathing hole and my eating hold shouldn't share a tube. The reproductive orifices shouldn't be anywhere near those for expelling waste. Things do not allude to a designer... at the very least, not a competent one.

 

[Divide]

We should all try and keep an open mind.

[Yep. I think the one thing that we can all really count on, is the amount of deception here on earth. We have literally been lied to for most of our lives. This leaves enough room to be able to consider the possibility that, the twilight zone is real and the Matrix was right... it is the world which has been pulled over our eyes)



So how do you account for the diversity of life on Earth?

[Exactly my point. There is no accounting for such widespread diversity of life and that it all happened by mere chance. Maybe one form of life (I'm being generous I think, lol) or even two forms by chance, but zillions of species and types (notwithstanding all of the plant life either which hasn't even been mentioned! So to account for the diversity, it makes a lot of sense that it was designed and created. To me at least)



Maybe if you didn't use words like "scientificologists" your claim about keeping an open mind would be more convincing.

[Maybe so, but don't read too much into that. I speak facetiously fairly often and this is fairly informal here. I'm not exactly giving a lecture to a bunch of professors or something where absolute precision and no kidding around even a little is necessary. That was just a play on words because more and more I personally feel that "science" is almost like a religion unto itself. Much science is real, but also much of it it theory and conjecture put across as facts, and I don't buy all of it. I didn't want to use scientologist (like Scientology) because that is the most wacked out thing that I've ever heard, the stuff they believe. Even atheists are quite a few rungs up higher than those scientoligists are. No wonder tom cruise is one, lol) So I tweaked it sorta out of more respect for you guys than them, Lol!]



The hubris of the creationist.

So you don't have to study physics to proclaim that it's wrong? I'd suggest that you do, otherwise you can end up saying silly things like this...

"The 2nd law of thermodynamics states that everything moves from order to disorder. So how could evolution be true? How could the big bang be true? and so forth..."

[Oh I don't know about that. Of course I am wrong about some things, who isn't? But on the other hand, it's true. Like a computer, you get out of it what goes into it. SO if garbage in then garbage out. Physics is like everything else. There are some facts there. Some is truth, but not all of it. That's a given. and no amount of studying it will make it all suddenly truth]

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Actually, it is a closed system. You all are not taking into account everything.

How is Earth a closed system?

 

[Divide]

From what I can find, a human cell wastes more than 70% of the energy consumed in food.
[That doesn't surprise me a bit. These flesh bodies seem to be pretty inefficient in most things.]

Good for you, but you could have cut this completely out of your post, since it makes no claims and brings no evidence.
[Exactly. Very perceptive of you. In a way. that's sorta my underlying point. We humans have basically two ways of learning things. One is, to study/learn/get
educated, which amounts to much of it being...taking the "teachers" word for it, putting our faith into then (scientist/teacher etc..) and accepting it as fact when we really figure it out for our self, but largely took someones word for it. We can sit and talk Physics all day on this board, but are there any real Physicists here? Prolly not. We may understand some of it, but not even close to all of it.

The second way we learn things is by doing it our self and our personal input from our senses, eyes, ears, intuition and so forth. Haven't you ever been told, 'this is so, that's the way it is', about something...but then when you try it for yourself you find that, it really is not that way? That's how advances are made and improvements come about. People thinking outside the box, thinking for them self. See what I mean?

There's a lot of people who have a vested interest in misleading the masses for different reasons about certain things. Like the medical profession or the energy companies. I have "heard" that there are cures to cancer, but they quash the info because so they can make the money. Homeopathic remedies are (wrong don't work dangerous blah blah blah) because they don't want it cured so they can make billions off of us. Or, cars that will run on water. The technology is there. But they wont let it out because they'd lose money. They have plenty of motivation for lying to us all. So some things we just have to look see for ourself. Believe your own eyes and ears. They will lie to you a lot less than the establishment!]

XD thousands, wow, not the best source if they think thousands is the best description. Since the current estimate of living species on this planet (with estimations on the ones not yet discovered included) is 8.7 million and (as per a source I found) that means 86% of species on this planet have yet to be identified, that makes for over 1.2 million species already identified.

[Thank you for making my point. The more complex the system, the less likely it was an accident.]

Also, why would the number of species matter to you or be particularly impressive, especially considering that the vast majority are microscopic?

[I think the size of the particular life-form is irrelevant to the fact that they are alive. It's impressive enough, the notion that a single life-form could spontaneously spawn out of nothing...but millions or billions of different ones?! Lol, That's pretty far fetched! That is particularly impressive, and quite hard to swallow. There's just too much of it for it to be that easy.

With what we know about cells and stuff & DNA and all that, they're saying that each cell is like an automated factory machine, with degrees of complexity which put to shame mankind's best. We can't make machinery that good. If it was that easy and that diverse, then somewhere at sometime people would prolly accidentally make new life forms. I left the butter out last night and it turned into a cool little animal sorta like a mongoose but different.....?!! (A ridiculous assumption!). Or the tornado goes through a junk yard ans assembles a working 747 in it's wake. No way sister! There's design involved in this planet and all it's life.]





-_- that would only be true if genomes were unchanging. Since they change constantly, it'd be weird if there wasn't a huge variety of species on a planet that has had life for over 3 billion years.

[I don't believe that either. I know they say carbon dating is reasonably accurate and all that but what if they're wrong about the accuracy of it? Has man ever been wrong before? Math was my worst subject in school, but I (used to!) have an appreciation for those who can plug figures into a big long equation like that and come up with the answer...Ohhh wow man and they basically memorize the equations and can do this in their head! I wasn't good at that so did miserably in math in school, but then I grew up and went into business for myself and a magical thing happened...I learned how to use a calculator! Suddenly math isn't so impressive anymore, I AM good at it because I use a bunch of their equations in my hvac work. I just plug the readings into the equation and look at the results and there it is. Ohms Law, Heat gin/Heat loss calculations for sizing, duct sizing equations all sorts of cool math. And they think I'm skilled because I can run a calculator, lol! ...what is impressive is, who made the equation? Who figured that out? And was he right? but who came up with the formula is the impressive one. they are just a man or woman too, and if they got one factor slightly off (very easy to do!) then the entire answer is junk. It's really a so-called educated guess based on their equations and procedures. We can play with a calculator all day but that doesn't mean that all the answers are going to be right. Now, in hvac, it isn't rocket science and so "close enough" is good enough to make it work. But then again, in hvac we're not exactly trying to figure a billion years ago either so there's a huge difference in the precision that is going to be needed to be there...and considering man's track record (lol), it's a safe bet that it's not perfect dating methods. Essentially, one has to either, put faith into the equation or not to put faith into the equation. Did you check his work or did you just use his equation as a base? They could easily be wrong. They are probably wrong. I can't prove it, but who can prove that it is true and accurate either? Science and all that, is, sort of a religion in that aspect. Have faith in the scientist and his equations, or have faith in God.

Or is there a person on the board who can make their own equation and come up with the constants?! I'm bettin' no, lol]


Uh... humans have made new species before. A large portion of food crops are the result of artificial selection by us, for example.

[True enough! but only by Hybridization. They're getting good at it too from what I hear. They can also do it with animal life too! I've seen some of those videos of strange hybrid creatures washing up on the beach or being spotted. So it's less of a 'made new species' and more of a 'making a new recipe' with existing ingredients and simply mixing them together. Can you see the distinction?


Even though people have done such a simple thing plenty of times before? You can look all you like, but you'll never find an entirely red Venus flytrap in the wild. Heck, I'm sure you've seen some of these for sale before: https://d6p0gevo8s9lm.cloudfront.ne...6e95/E/4/E425808939209B31D4AAC30D35F86A25.jpg
Ever wondered why the stem isn't near as prickly as the rest? That's because it's a graph from a different plant species entirely. These cacti have a mutation that makes them unable to produce chlorophyll, so they have to be graphed onto a compatible plant that does have chlorophyll in order to survive. Understandably, these things can't survive in the wild, but the wild type that doesn't have this mutation can.

[Yeah, those are cool. Some sort of cacti, I think. But to blend two different cacti together to make a 3rd type which is new, is impressive to an extent for us dumb humans, but show me where they have taken two different non-living ingredients and making a living thing out of it, now that would be impressive, and we can't do it either.

It really doesn't, considering the extreme flaws in life forms and how unsuitable the majority of the universe is for life. My breathing hole and my eating hold shouldn't share a tube. The reproductive orifices shouldn't be anywhere near those for expelling waste. Things do not allude to a designer... at the very least, not a competent one.

[Sure it does. It's just a matter of perspective. You've just been taught to look from a certain perspective and that perspective wouldn't allow for it. Sometimes when you look at something from a different angle it's characteristics can seem mighty different. And mankind corrects itself all the time. Most homeopathic remedies were touted off as wives tales, but modern testing of the constituents in it turned out to be true. Chicken soup really is good for curing colds and flu. something about the broth from chicken bones reducing inflammation and the oils from the chicken has, uh, cystein (something like that) in it and it breaks up mucous in your system or something like that, I forget exactly, but they proved that, Grandma was right, lol.

An Apple a day keeps the doctor away, turned out to be true but was thought to be mumbo jumbo wives tale before established acience community. Apples contain soluble fibers that promotes blood health, boron which leads the way for strong bones, a cancer-inhibiting flavonoid called quercetin, vitamin C, and phytonutrients which fight heart disease and diabetes. They know this stuff now.

With the point being that, they were wrong about a lot of stuff. So it's easy to assume that they're wrong about dating stuff back billions of years. We may not have found the hole in it yet, but I bet ya' a dollar that they are wrong.

Can you or anyone substantiate dating methods? Me either. So I don't buy it. I don't know how old the earth is. but I seriously doubt that it even could be that old. Man kind is hard on this planet. Look at the damage that we've done to the planet in just the last 100 to 150 years. No way I could subscribe to this planet being a billion years old.]

I answered you inside of your quote like I did Jimmy's. What is in bold is me.

The coffee is good tonight! Lol.