Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

[PsychoSarah]

I just got finished watching a movie called “something the lord made” . Speaking of raising the dead . It was about the two men and one woman who were responsible for the current ability to operate on the heart . The movie was about the black man Vivien Thomas (Vivien is actually a man’s name the woman’s version is Vivienne ) with just a high school diploma he ended up teaching surgical techniques on the heart at Johns Hopkins . This is a true story . That’s the modern version of raising the dead - using modern medicine to save lives.

The "dead" are never raised. No one revived by medical technology has ever gotten to the point that their brain activity ceases, let alone the activity of other tissues.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Hmm. It seems to me that observations both supporting and denying creation have been made and continue to be made. I can easily accept the ones supporting creation, because He sent one of His Angels to me one time, and actually spoke to me another time...nevertheless, I don't know it all and for all I know a couple other things may have happened. Maybe there was a gap period in Genesis between the creation of earth, and the creation of man? Perhaps even...13 billion years?! I don't know for sure as I wasn't there. Or maybe even God designed His creation to appear old, to get us to take it on faith? I dunno for sure. What I do know is He IS real.

Since there is no way to demonstrate that the old appearance of the planet/universe is fraudulent when you factor in an omnipotent being, it's pointless to bring up.

Once again, you Sarah are the exception to the rule here. You are intelligent and prolly easily 20-30 points higher in IQ than most others on this board, lol. Ok, so I've interacted with an Angel so God has been proven to me. That makes it easy to step outside and...look at that tree, whoa. I can see God's fingerprints on that tree myself. I can't make a tree, can you?

-_- well, considering that scientists have made an artificial organism with DNA that contains 6 different bases instead of 4, creating a tree is not entirely out of the question. What humans are capable of is not a measure of what natural processes can accomplish, so it wouldn't actually matter if humans were never able to create living organisms. But, we've reached the point where we can, making this point of yours all the weaker.

Nevertheless, you're making a pretty good point here. I don't have a picture of my Sister to post! All I have is my word, and yeah, I'm as dumb as the next guy is, contrary to popular belief that I somehow think I'm superior, which I am not. But I know one thing...truth is self evident when you see it, unless you don't want to see it for some reason.

Not really. Even your description of an encounter with an angel doesn't actually fit descriptions of them in the bible (they look super weird, like this https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/00/4c/eb004c6e6a44046c660683cd151cd16f.jpg ). Even if you only go by NT descriptions, they don't ever pass as regular humans, being notably tall, attractive, and having shining faces. They also only wear white.

Your description of "talking with Yahweh" doesn't fit biblical accounts either.

At least up to a point! You know this, that's why you experiment and think them through. And when you happen across something that does work or makes sense (or doesn't) you know it then. What I know about God is that He wants us to take it on faith first and put our trust in Him...and then He comes and reveals Himself to us. That's how it worked for me. He doesn't want to prove it first. I can't say why, I don't know why. His thoughts and ways are above our thoughts and ways.

-_- there are multiple cases of the biblical god going out of its way to prove its existence in the bible, and the text gives very mixed messages about whether or not that deity is willing to show itself.

That's what I like about you, you can make a man think. Ok. No logical reason I can think of. But! Perhaps...there really is a spiritual war going on? And (if so), then, no wonder they do not publish the entire truth as they would be trying to hide God's existence from the people and make them doubt. Some people ARE denying that the holocaust ever happened! Consider this: The absolute best lies, are the ones couched in truth. Put out some truth, mix in some lies...it makes it hard to distinguish what is truth. The truth IS out there, but we have to mine for it. A little here, a little there.

Again, anyone in said "spiritual war" would have to be aware of the existence of deities ON BOTH SIDES. Since there is no logical motivation for covering up the existence of the biblical god, your proposed events happening in the shadows don't make any sense. Anyone knowingly fighting on the side of satan would have to be so critically stupid that they wouldn't be able to effectively cover up this "spiritual warfare".

Plus, the scientific process makes it practically impossible for this to occur. Theories don't acquire their label without extensive testing BY MULTITUDES OF PEOPLE WITHOUT SHARED INTERESTS IN THE RESULTS GOING A CERTAIN WAY. And any person can test various theories if they want to. Lies equal inconsistencies, so a theory based in lies wouldn't match the observable world very well.

This sounds right, lol. I don't know what is in anyones heart here. I can not confirm that, correct. I suppose it would suffice to say, I suspect that many atheists have unspoken ulterior motive.

Most atheists don't even involve themselves in discussions relating to religion, so I highly doubt that.

You guys do yourself a favor here...take a real good look at this nice lady. She isn't juvenile and all huh-uh, or taking jabs at people founded in nothing except stupidity. You would do well to follow her example.

You don't need to talk me up all the time, it's getting kinda weird.

 

[dad]

What do have against trump? Oh, wait, you had a list, ok. Lol.

It seems to me that pro life and prayer are things most people are triggered with that underlie their hatred of Trump. For me, his support of the military and war and torture sound the alarms.

It occurred to me today that the house is divided in the US. That seems to mean a fall.

 

[Speedwell]

It seems to me that pro life and prayer are things most people are triggered with that underlie their hatred of Trump.

it might be if anybody seriously believed that Trump was going to deliver for you on those issues.

 

[Brightmoon]

Nope. Flood geology is quite passe.

I would have never guessed that given that I get into just as many arguments with those geological based scientific illiterates as I do with evolution deniers

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

No evidence was generated.

The creation week consisted of a series of miracles over a period of six days that raised the level of mass/energy in the universe from zero to what it is now.

But the creation of the universe could have been done in such a way as to not leave evidence behind for evolution and an unfolding of the universe from a primitive, simple state to its current complex state. Since that evidence was left behind, shouldn't we assimilate and accept that evidence?

 

[dad]

it might be if anybody seriously believed that Trump was going to deliver for you on those issues.

For me? Ha. I guess he showed that no one could?

 

[dad]

I would have never guessed that given that I get into just as many arguments with those geological based scientific illiterates as I do with evolution deniers

Point taken. I guess they have not yet realized they need better ammo.

 

[Speedwell]

For me? Ha. I guess he showed that no one could?

Someone might. With respect to abortion, anyway--you've got the Roman Catholics on your side. But neither they nor anybody else wants your prayer in the public schools.

 

[dad]

Someone might. With respect to abortion, anyway--you've got the Roman Catholics on your side. But neither they nor anybody else wants your prayer in the public schools.

I see. No wonder they feel a need to ban guns I guess.

 

[Brightmoon]

Guns don’t belong in schools either

 

[Divide]

Can a murderer enter heaven, yes or no?

One that has repented and asked forgiveness, or no?
That's what it amounts to. Hitler didn't repent, he is not in Heaven. But! King David in the Bible, commited adultrey with a man's Wife, and basically had him killed by "send him to the front" to either cover it up or get to keep his wife, not sure. David is called, a man after God's own heart. That's pretty big. He had blood on his hands and must have repented to be able to be called a man after Gods own heart.

So a murderer can not enter Heaven, but a forgiven man can. So if you want to reduce this to a yes or no question, the answer is no.

 

[Divide]

Do you accept a doctor's prescription? Or do you go and study for about 8 years, become a doctor, see papers, conduct tests and then buy and consume said medicine?
Have you seen the top of Mount everest or bottom of Mariana Trench?
The clocks you use, how do you know it is the real time? Do you make a sundial and check?
What a stupid argument.

Now that's funny man, no matter how you slice it! You forgot to ask if I go play on the freeway and my God saves me!!

I do go see doctors, I am on a prescription medication, I have been on one form of prescription or another for most of my life. I'm epileptic and have seizures if I am not medicated (and have some pot in my system as it turns out..). I am not a doctor, but I'm also not entirely stupid. I understand how doctors and hospitals work. It's all done based on feedback from the patient. (What's your complaint?). So i pay attention to my body and know better than anyone, doctor or not about my personal case.

You wanna hear some war stories where I clashed with doctors, adjusted my own dosages, seriously embarrassed one doctor in front of his 6 or 8 interns?! Because yeah, there's a few doctors out there who are kinda uppity and want to present themselves as one who can, having never seen me before, thinks he can read my chart for two minutes and knows more about my case than I do?! HA! I puthat guy in his place. Young idiot.

I got a bunch of those stories. There are some medications that are very effective, others because of weird side effects are dangerous and shouldn't be given to anyone. It is up to us what we put in our body. They tried to give me anti-depressants before! I've never been depressed. I've never taken even one of those pills either. No way. It used to take 15-20 years to get a new pill on the market. Nowadays I think it takes like 6 weeks or something.

 

[Divide]

Do you accept a doctor's prescription? Or do you go and study for about 8 years, become a doctor, see papers, conduct tests and then buy and consume said medicine?
Have you seen the top of Mount everest or bottom of Mariana Trench?
The clocks you use, how do you know it is the real time? Do you make a sundial and check?
What a stupid argument.

Do you know how much medical information that you can get off the internet? You can look up anything. Potential side effects mostly, lol. Then listen to your own body and see what's up. Nope not that pill.
Hey I like that other pill, it works...??

I've seen Everest and the Mariana trench both on video. And I do not know if it is the right time. I don't know if it is the right date either...but it doesn't matter to me because it gives me something to work with for now so I can live and take care of business or whatever. So that's kinda extreme thinking don'tcha' think?

Originally the earth's people were on solar and lunar time. They paid attention to the sun and moon and could keep track of months and years like that. In solar and lunar cycles there is a little variation each season, so if I tried to use a lunar calendar, I;d be late for my appointment, so the refutation that you put forth is stupid and idiotic in and of itself. Get real man.

 

[Divide]

Sorry, but no. You are just wrong. It is what it is. The science is settled on the matter. Evolution theory is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, success stories in all of science. And I don't just say that, I actually mean it.

You go for it baby! Embrace that stuff if you want to!

I remember even when we were kids, before we got all grown up and spiritualized or smart or whatever, we were kids. I guess this is when they were trying to teach us this stuff in school because I remember a time when we would all be walking down the alley or something and there would be a puddle, and the joke was..."there's your mom" and point to the puddle. (came from an amoeba in a puddle and then a gorilla and now you) Lol! We didn't even believe it then. and were kids.

 

[tas8831]

But I have to ask: "Why?"

You can be a lying raping murderer and you can still be forgiven. It doesn't matter what you do during your life, you can try to be the nicest guy ever or commit mass murder you just have to ask for forgiveness before you die and you end up in heaven.

And that's the most senseless and idiotic system I have ever heard of.

One of the several reasons I quit Christianity.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You go for it baby! Embrace that stuff if you want to!

What I want or not (or what you believe religiously), has no relevance to what the evidence is and how biology actually works. Scientific theories, are not a matter of opinion or belief.

I remember even when we were kids, before we got all grown up and spiritualized or smart or whatever, we were kids. I guess this is when they were trying to teach us this stuff in school because I remember a time when we would all be walking down the alley or something and there would be a puddle, and the joke was..."there's your mom" and point to the puddle. (came from an amoeba in a puddle and then a gorilla and now you) Lol! We didn't even believe it then. and were kids.

I'ld sue your school for failing to teach you properly.

I'm not even sure how else to respond to such drivel.
Except perhaps, by saying that you failing to understand (or your teacher failing to explain it properly), again has no relevance to what the science is actually all about and how biology actually works.

 

[DogmaHunter]

No, I don't. I try to, but I fail regularly. I am not religious, but I seek the true God and a relationship with Him.

Trump? How would I know what Trump has in his heart? I've never met the man or talked to him. I am well aware that many Christians say that he...had a visitation from the Lord and the Lord put him in office...Is it absolutely true? I have no proof of that one way or the other. Am I inclined to believe it?! You bet I am. The fix was in! Hillary was supposed to win, all monies had been paid! Then Trump won...Huh. So it could very well be so what they say. Why do you think she's so [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] that she lost?! God jerked the rug out from under her! That's funny.

But I don't have any proof for you guys. So, who knows?

So instead of Hillary, your god thought it would be better to put a narcistic sociopath in power with a long history of harassing women, dating inappropriate content stars while his actual wife is pregnant and who's on tape while saying about women "you just grab them by the *kitten*" (kitten, because I'm guessing that the actual word he used, will be censored here), and who is nothing short of a proven pathological liar?

Owkay.

I guess your god doesn't like america.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Woooow. So you'd rather be one of the world's scumbags instead of being an honorable man?

Uhh, ok I guess. Good luck with that.

That is not at all what he said. Read it again.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I suppose there is a possibility of outright fraud, in fact, it's pretty much a guarantee.
There's also the possibility of outright stupidity.

Outright stupidity, is also pretty much a guarantee

I believe it was Einstein that once said:
"Only 2 things in this world are infinite. The universe and human stupidity. But I'm not certain of the first"