Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

[DogmaHunter]

No. My beliefs are well supported.

About as supported as Last Thursdayism can get, that is.

Your claimed nature in the past has precisely no evidence whatsoever. Not all beliefs are equal.

Not all, true. Your beliefs, however, are very equal to Last Thursdayism.

 

[DogmaHunter]

101 pages!

...and still no evidence for "creation" or "id".
Nore any explanation from creationists or cdesign proponentsists as to why such evidence isn't forthcoming.

God's creation speaks for itself and all you have to do is open your eyes and look around

So, all scientsts, who actually study the world for a living, have their eyes shut in your opinion?

You lay-people all know better then them?

What this thread is showing (even being nice and giving the presumption that no proof has been posted, lol!) is a very calculated determined denial of obvious proofs in the world that everyone can and does see.

And by "everyone", you actually really mean religious fundamentalists, which is a minority even among christians.

Make no mistake about it, the denial of God's existence is for a reason that they will not state.

This thread isn't about god's existance. It's about creationism/id as opposed to biological evolution theory.

You are not aware that the majority of christians, don't feel a (religious) need to deny the biological sciences?

Every single person on this board knows deep down inside that God is real

Hi, I'm an atheist and your mindreading device seems broken.

and did create the world just as He said He did. Some lie to the Christians, others are lying to themselves perhaps and may actually believe the inane things they write. Everybody has the God seed in them. How do I know this? I have felt it my whole life, even when I wasn't walking with God. I know you feel it too.

You really feel the hindu seed and you know it. You just don't want to admit it, because you wish to continue sinning and eat hamburgers and bbq steaks.

Why else do Atheists hang out on Christian boards?!

Entertainment and discussion.

You guys crack me up, man

Right back at ya. It's why I keep coming back. For the laughs (and sometimes the challenge of teaching high-school level science to creationists).

The Christian scriptures say that there will be no excuse. God doesn't lie.

The islamic scripture also says things. You don't care about that, why would you expect me to care about your prefered religious writings?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Oh, I'm done debating you guys. You don't settle for anything less than a conversion to your religion, lol. My post was merely a...or so it seems to me...So believe anything you want to choose! That's what I see in this thread though. You must really like what you're in to.

The projection is strong in this one.

 

[tas8831]

So do you, and all you have is belief in a same state past.

Actually, I laid out a simplified example of why sensible people are uniformitarians. You ignored it or couldn't understand it.
There is a saying - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. YOURS in an extraordinary claim, for you posit fluctuating physical constants (with no apparent consequences), etc. Yet your entire line of "evidence" seems to be burden shifting.

I do not accept that these events (flooding, mountain building, etc.) occurred in a prescribed temporal fashion, since we can see that they are ongoing and occur simultaneously.

No. We don't see that. We some tiny residual movements or actions. I didn't see an Everest pop up this month.

No one ever saw something that dopey and cartoonish, but nice strawman.

See - this is what I mean. You seem to believe - solely to prop up your precious ancient middle eastern tall tales - that Everest really did pop up in a month. But you ignore the dire consequences for such an event. You will have us believe that the dire consequences don't matter due to God-magic. But if God-magic can make the laws of thermodynamics disappear as needed, why a flood in the first place? Why not just poof all the sinners (to include those pesky wombats and stoats and gomphotheres - they had it coming!) into oblivion?

Why can't adults see that these tales are metaphorical moral tales, not reality?

Not much heat in the former nature. That is a feature of this nature, that we expect heat from great friction.

What is your evidence for this former nature?

You rely on different definitions past.

Let me make a prediction - Jehovah just turned off all physical 'laws' and constants - to include the creationist favorites the laws of thermodynamics - to accomplish his murderous tasks?

Your accusatory tone toward God betrays the bedrock for you belief system.

What belief system is that, Oh Great Mind Reader?

That the stories in the bible are tales used to explain what ancient folk did not understand? To justify their brutal lives? Different definitions past negate all of your beliefs.

If there was no laws as we know them, how or why could they be turned off?

LOL!

You think physical laws are like speed limits or something?

A physical 'law' is just something observed with regularity. My gosh...

Yes - iridium, common in asteroids, not so common earth. Evidence for an asteroid strike.

Says your religion. However flood waters also came from space.

LOL!

This is too much.

Dude, get help.

I'm not wasting time on this nonsense any more.

 

[Divide]

Hi, I'm an atheist and your mindreading device seems broken.

Translation: I don't want to obey everything I know the New Testament teaches.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Translation: I don't want to obey everything I know the New Testament teaches.

Then you are not a hindu because you wish to continue eating cows.

Such arguments are as bad as it gets.

But hey, whatever you need to tell yourself to satisfy your superiority complex.

 

[Brightmoon]

Translation: I don't want to obey everything I know the New Testament teaches.

So if the NT told you to drink the koolaid you’d do it. Fundies tell women to be submissive cuz it’s in the Bible . Any woman will tell you how demeaning that behavior is. But only women who have as little respect for themselves as the Bible shows women, will actually be submissive to a man. It’s not always wise to obey without question

 

[DogmaHunter]

So if the NT told you to drink the koolaid you’d do it. Fundies tell women to be submissive cuz it’s in the Bible . Any woman will tell you how demeaning that behavior is. But only women who have as little respect for themselves as the Bible shows women will actually be submissive to a man. It’s not always wise to obey without question

That's just because women "don't want to obey everything they know the NT teaches".

 

[dad]

About as supported as Last Thursdayism can get, that is.


Not all, true. Your beliefs, however, are very equal to Last Thursdayism.

Yours are.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yours are.

"well, i'm rubber and you're glue!!!!"

 

[dad]

Actually, I laid out a simplified example of why sensible people are uniformitarians. You ignored it or couldn't understand it.

Your religion is not sensible actually. Nor anything more than religion.

There is a saying - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. YOURS in an extraordinary claim, for you posit fluctuating physical constants (with no apparent consequences), etc. Yet your entire line of "evidence" seems to be burden shifting.

All claims require evidence in science. Your same state past has NONE at all.

See - this is what I mean. You seem to believe - solely to prop up your precious ancient middle eastern tall tales - that Everest really did pop up in a month.

How would I know how long it took? Some say less than a day. I could stretch it out many years if evidence warranted, or many months. What I don't like is people pretending to know when they don't.

But you ignore the dire consequences for such an event. You will have us believe that the dire consequences don't matter due to God-magic. But if God-magic can make the laws of thermodynamics disappear as needed, why a flood in the first place? Why not just poof all the sinners (to include those pesky wombats and stoats and gomphotheres - they had it coming!) into oblivion?

Both at the separation of land and water in creation week, and also in the dividing of land later, no great heat was produced. One assumes that is a feature of the different former nature.

Thermodynamics as we know it is a present state feature. The heat was likely produced in the final stages of the nature change when we entered this nature. (not from the center of the earth business science speculates)

What is your evidence for this former nature?

What's your for your claimed same nature?

That the stories in the bible are tales used to explain what ancient folk did not understand? To justify their brutal lives? Different definitions past negate all of your beliefs.

They are for today actually.

LOL!

You think physical laws are like speed limits or something?

To God? Ha. Not even that.

A physical 'law' is just something observed with regularity. My gosh...

Man has observed only so long. Gosh.

 

[tas8831]

Translation: I don't want to obey everything I know the New Testament teaches.

Do YOU?

This is a bit off topic, but I am curious - you seem religious. Do YOU think Trump is a great Christian, chosen by God (as many prominent evangelicals have claimed)? If so, why?

 

[PsychoSarah]

God's creation speaks for itself and all you have to do is open your eyes and look around.

-_- if that were actually true, scientific investigations stimulated by the prospect of learning more about "gods creation" would have resulted in observations which supported the idea that the planet, etc., was created. Instead, those people kept finding information that contradicted that idea.

What this thread is showing (even being nice and giving the presumption that no proof has been posted, lol!) is a very calculated determined denial of obvious proofs in the world that everyone can and does see.

Nah, I am extremely biased in the FAVOR of believing in the existence of deities, the afterlife, etc. I sincerely WANT those things to exist, but alas, the evidence in supporting that conclusion is extremely lacking. Consider this; you claim to have personally interacted with an angel on at least one occasion, but you know for a fact that this is not a common experience and all claimed instances aren't recorded properly such that people not present can also experience them. This is the same as if I claimed that it is "obvious that my sister has brown eyes, and the evidence is there for everyone to see" while I don't even produce a picture of my sister.

Make no mistake about it, the denial of God's existence is for a reason that they will not state.

We won't state it because it doesn't exist. Just think critically for 1 moment; what logical reason would a person effortfully deny the existence of a deity they internally know exists IF THE END RESULT IS GOING TO HELL? All the various reasons creationists come up for "why people deny the existence of the god they internally believe exists" are extraordinarily weak. The most common one, the "they don't want to stop sinning/be accountable for their actions in the afterlife" makes absolutely no sense. Obviously, if the deity exists, we are going to be judged, and being in denial doesn't prevent that any more than being in denial of the existence of police officers means not being held accountable for crimes. I don't want the events of the Holocaust to have actually happened, but I am not delusional enough to think that denying the events happened makes them no longer have an impact.

Furthermore, you are making claims about the thoughts of people other than yourself; thoughts you cannot actually confirm in any way. Yet, as an actual atheist, I know I don't secretly believe in any deities, so your claim just comes off as ridiculous and pointless. Do you think I would regularly cry myself to sleep at night over fear from my inevitable death if I thought an afterlife existed?

Everybody has the God seed in them. How do I know this? I have felt it my whole life, even when I wasn't walking with God. I know you feel it too. Why else do Atheists hang out on Christian boards?!

For some, it's just because they like debating. Or are all Christians on Islam boards seeking Allah?

 

[tas8831]

Your religion is not sensible actually. Nor anything more than religion.

All claims require evidence in science. Your same state past has NONE at all.



How would I know how long it took? Some say less than a day. I could stretch it out many years if evidence warranted, or many months. What I don't like is people pretending to know when they don't.
Both at the separation of land and water in creation week, and also in the dividing of land later, no great heat was produced. One assumes that is a feature of the different former nature.

Thermodynamics as we know it is a present state feature. The heat was likely produced in the final stages of the nature change when we entered this nature. (not from the center of the earth business science speculates)
What's your for your claimed same nature?
They are for today actually.

To God? Ha. Not even that.
Man has observed only so long. Gosh.

Like I said - not going to waste time on your burden shifting, question begging, nonsense.

Pity that you rely on different definitions past, and don't even know it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Translation: I don't want to obey everything I know the New Testament teaches.

Here are some things the New Testament teaches that I guarantee you not only don't adhere to, but that you'll never adhere to even though I make you aware of them:

Cut off your hands and gouge out your eyes if you commit a sin with them (Matthew 5:29-30). Recall that the New Testament considers thinking about committing sins equal to actually committing them.

Don't defend yourself if you are attacked by another person (Matthew 5:39)

Don't pray in public (Matthew 6:6)

Don't respect other people (1 Timothy 5:21 and James 2:1-10)

Let people that deny the truth of god in ignorance remain ignorant (1 Corinthians 14:38) Not sure how this is supposed to be followed in conjunction with the encouragement to preach to people also in the NT.

Don't lie (quite a few verses, and considering that NOT speaking your mind exactly as it is happens to be a lie of omission, good luck with actually trying to follow this one while not breaking any rules about lust, etc.)

Don't judge other people (Matthew 7:1 and Luke 6:37) A ton of other commands can't be followed without inevitably breaking this one.

Heal sick people, cast out devils, and raise the dead (Matthew 10:8) I don't think it is within your power to accomplish this.


And many more. It's fairly well known that following all the commands in the NT is not possible, so to claim that someone's beliefs could ever be dictated by an unwillingness to follow these commands is to neglect to recognize that no one, believer or otherwise, does.

 

[Brightmoon]

My take on this is since God created the universe the way S/He wanted, then what we discovered about the universe is info that God wanted us to have. Remember the Church abused Galileo about telling the truth about planetary motion . If the pope hadn’t been a friend he would have died at the stake instead of being sentenced to permanent house arrest . You’re proposing abusing “evolutionists” by smuggly wishing them in hell and we’re telling the truth about living organisms. What’s the difference? Other than the fact that you don’t have the political power to physically abuse people who don’t share your fundie faith.

And yeah I did say wishing . Because you fundies wish you had that kind of power and you don’t so it devolves into emotional abuse

Don’t you dare tell me that I’m going to hell because I refuse to believe a lie

 

[Brightmoon]

Both at the separation of land and water in creation week, and also in the dividing of land later, no great heat was produced. One assumes that is a feature of the different former nature

Any division of land and water is going to generate heat from friction . What actually happened with out gassing from volcanism is clouds of steam in the air and if this happened underwater it heated the water. We know early earth was a hellishly hot place because of the volcanic activity and the CO2 in the atmosphere. Separating land masses also involves plate tectonics which is the result from a molten mantle. Moving these around rapidly would generate earthquakes so massive that the planet’s rotation would be affected. A somewhat smaller earthquake, like the one that hit Japan a few years ago and which generated that horrible tsunami, actually did change the earth’s rotation . So what you’re claiming is nothing that has ever been observed nor do we find evidence of past occurrences.

 

[dad]

Like I said - not going to waste time on your burden shifting, question begging, nonsense.

Pity that you rely on different definitions past, and don't even know it.

OK, long as you realize your religious past modeling is an exercise in deception and futility.

 

[dad]

Any division of land and water is going to generate heat from friction .

I would tend to agree that it would do that...now. The thing is it was THEN. Not now.

What actually happened with out gassing from volcanism is clouds of steam in the air and if this happened underwater it heated the water.

Great. In the final stages of the nature change we would land in this nature...hence, a lot of heat would be expected on land and the sea.

We know early earth was a hellishly hot place because of the volcanic activity and the CO2 in the atmosphere.

Oh? How do you know that? Source?

Separating land masses also involves plate tectonics which is the result from a molten mantle.

I disagree. That is your belief based conception. Try to remember man has not been more than about 10 miles down. Ha.

Moving these around rapidly would generate earthquakes so massive that the planet’s rotation would be affected.

If the inner earth was as you think, and the move happened in this nature, you might have a point.

A somewhat smaller earthquake, like the one that hit Japan a few years ago and which generated that horrible tsunami, actually did change the earth’s rotation . So what you’re claiming is nothing that has ever been observed nor do we find evidence of past occurrences.

That happened in this nature. By the way, changing the spin or rotation or axis or orbits of bodies in the solar system could be a feature of the nature change.

After all a lot of debris out there in the solar system exists now, and a lot of craters from falling debris etc etc. Try to remember that the godless little belief based models of the so called science religion are not the only ideas/models.beliefs.

 

[dad]

My take on this is since God created the universe the way S/He wanted, then what we discovered about the universe is info that God wanted us to have. Remember the Church abused Galileo about telling the truth about planetary motion . If the pope hadn’t been a friend he would have died at the stake instead of being sentenced to permanent house arrest . You’re proposing abusing “evolutionists” by smuggly wishing them in hell and we’re telling the truth about living organisms. What’s the difference? Other than the fact that you don’t have the political power to physically abuse people who don’t share your fundie faith.

And yeah I did say wishing . Because you fundies wish you had that kind of power and you don’t so it devolves into emotional abuse

Don’t you dare tell me that I’m going to hell because I refuse to believe a lie

These days the church by and large supports science...go figure.