Why Mormons aren't christians.

[chokmah]

http://www.christianforums.com/t2457869-was-paul-a-trinitarian.html&page=5#post21105700

Thanks, MQTA.

We've had one person attempt to form an argument, but I'll give SoG the benefit of the doubt on presenting something of substance.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Why not? Could you please explain why you disagree with the argument that I have presented?

Because it makes NO sense...and I am unwilling to conceed that I must believe in something that makes no sense because someone tells me to. Read what you posted...make some sense of it for me. It is complete and utter jibberish to me. How can anyone agree to something like that?

 

[SwordOfGod]

Because it makes NO sense...and I am unwilling to conceed that I must believe in something that makes no sense because someone tells me to. Read what you posted...make some sense of it for me. It is complete and utter jibberish to me. How can anyone agree to something like that?

I am not telling you to believe this, I am presenting biblical verses to create a logical argument that you have yet to refute.

Read what you posted...make some sense of it for me. It is complete and utter jibberish to me. How can anyone agree to something like that?

I have already explained this doctrine to you to the best of my ability... I have presented mounds of biblical evidence, I have given you metaphores(time) and you have yet to realize a truth that the Bible proclaims. If it is that I am a bad teacher/debater/explainer then I apologize... I do however think this unlikely. I pray that one day you will except God's gift to you, I pray one day you except that Truth is a defined person who loves you very much. That perhaps that Truth cannot be completely understood in this lifetime. God is infinite and infinitely loves you, so much so, that He died so that you might have eternal life. God bless you, I do hope one day that you will know what it means to know Him and His word.

 

[Cassiopeia]

I am not telling you to believe this, I am presenting biblical verses to create a logical argument that you have yet to refute.



I have already explained this doctrine to you to the best of my ability... I have presented mounds of biblical evidence, I have given you metaphores(time) and you have yet to realize a truth that the Bible proclaims. If it is that I am a bad teacher/debater/explainer then I apologize... I do however think this unlikely. I pray that one day you will except God's gift to you, I pray one day you except that Truth is a defined person who loves you very much. That perhaps that Truth cannot be completely understood in this lifetime. God is infinite and infinitely loves you, so much so, that He died so that you might have eternal life. God bless you, I do hope one day that you will know what it means to know Him and His word.

My post was for arunma. and I have read what you have to say...

 

[SwordOfGod]

Oh Ok..... I still haven't made the point that the Mormon ideas and the Christian ideas are so radically different that they are incompatible? More so, that they worship different gods?

 

[chokmah]

I would simply say that you haven't justified that Mormons aren't "true" Christians who can't have the same salvation as trinitarian Christians.

 

[Antoinette.Marie]

I know this topic has been discussed at length, but I wanted to give my two cents:

God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God became a man in Jesus and sent Him to earth to die for our sins. When Jesus was crucified, his physical body left this earth, but He sent us the Holy Spirit so His spiritual presence would be with us always (Luke 24:49).

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)

I agree with Casiopeia. Romans 10:9 states that whomever believes IN THEIR HEART that Jesus is Lord and confesses it, they shall be saved. It doesn't matter if they are Muslim, Protestant, Mormon, etc. God sees our hearts for what they really are. He knows who believes and who doesn't.

I would also like to add that believing Jesus is Lord isn't enough. We must committ our WHOLE SELVES to Him if we wish to live eternity in Heaven. Remember, even Satan believes in God, but does not obey Him.

 

[MQTA]

I know this topic has been discussed at length, but I wanted to give my two cents:

God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God became a man in Jesus and sent Him to earth to die for our sins. When Jesus was crucified, his physical body left this earth, but He sent us the Holy Spirit so His spiritual presence would be with us always (Luke 24:49).

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)

I agree with Casiopeia. Romans 10:9 states that whomever believes IN THEIR HEART that Jesus is Lord and confesses it, they shall be saved. It doesn't matter if they are Muslim, Protestant, Mormon, etc. God sees our hearts for what they really are. He knows who believes and who doesn't.

So you only have to believe it in your heart, not your head? It's just emotionalism?

I would also like to add that believing Jesus is Lord isn't enough. We must committ our WHOLE SELVES to Him if we wish to live eternity in Heaven. Remember, even Satan believes in God, but does not obey Him.

Are these things in a handbook or something? It's like everyone seems to use them, constantly, over and over.

So that's a case for Faith without works is dead?

 

[Swart]

Are these things in a handbook or something? It's like everyone seems to use them, constantly, over and over.

So that's a case for Faith without works is dead?

That's basically straight from James 2:
[BIBLE]james 2:17-20[/BIBLE]

 

[MQTA]

That's what I said...

But the saying of "Remember, even Satan believes in God, but does not obey Him." is not what [bible]james 2:19[/bible] says. But it's like a bumper sticker phrase that I've seen many say in various contexts.


Then a while later they'll quote something from Paul's writings saying no works, just faith, and other similar bumper sticker sayings.. that aren't necessarily direct quotes, but nearly identical in phraseology.

 

[Antoinette.Marie]

That's what I said...

But the saying of "Remember, even Satan believes in God, but does not obey Him." is not what James 2:19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.says. But it's like a bumper sticker phrase that I've seen many say in various contexts.


Then a while later they'll quote something from Paul's writings saying no works, just faith, and other similar bumper sticker sayings.. that aren't necessarily direct quotes, but nearly identical in phraseology.

No. Works are also involved. You must treat your fellow man with respect and dignity. I don't believe I am just some believer spouting off "bumper sticker" sayings to make myself look good. I believe, BOTH in my mind and my heart.

MQTA, faith AND works are required. One can't have faith, but treat others like garbage. It goes with the territory.

 

[arunma]

Then a while later they'll quote something from Paul's writings saying no works, just faith, and other similar bumper sticker sayings.. that aren't necessarily direct quotes, but nearly identical in phraseology.

Actually, even Paul emphasizes the importance of works. This passage excellently shows us why works are important, despite the fact that salvation does not come from them.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
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Therefore, it is not right to quote any Apostle out of context, so as to diminish the importance of works.

 

[dlamberth]

I do not find the Mormon concept of God to be anywhere close to what the old and new testaments of the Bible state about God.

So God is a concept? Sheesh!!! I say quit looking at mental concepts that mean nothing...Instead, go right for the soul and look for the face of God with in those whom you malign.

.

 

[MQTA]

Actually, even Paul emphasizes the importance of works. This passage excellently shows us why works are important, despite the fact that salvation does not come from them.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)


​

Therefore, it is not right to quote any Apostle out of context, so as to diminish the importance of works.

Yeah, it sure isn't, eh? Then why do so many do it, like, ALL the time? There seems to be a lot of confusion among those who believe the 'same thing'... it's never seemed to be the 'same thing' observing, hearing and seeing all these years.

 

[Rae]

I still haven't made the point that the Mormon ideas and the Christian ideas are so radically different that they are incompatible? More so, that they worship different gods?

--No, because Mormons ARE Christians. Some of their ideas are different from yours. That doesn't make them non-Christians.

 

[dlamberth]

No. Works are also involved. You must treat your fellow man with respect and dignity.

.Matthew 25 and the Sermon on the Mont come to mind.

.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Oh Ok..... I still haven't made the point that the Mormon ideas and the Christian ideas are so radically different that they are incompatible? More so, that they worship different gods?

You say it one way ...mormons say it another and in the end it still means the same thing. It is just snobbery that makes other Christians want to exclude them. Kinda like Hitler...only some Christians would annialate the Mormons from religious Christian discussions so they don't have to face the contradictions between christian sects.

 

[arunma]

Yeah, it sure isn't, eh? Then why do so many do it, like, ALL the time? There seems to be a lot of confusion among those who believe the 'same thing'... it's never seemed to be the 'same thing' observing, hearing and seeing all these years.

I think you may be confused about why some people quote the verses regarding salvation by grace through faith. We hold that salvation is purely the gift of God, and does not come by works. We further assert that anyone who has the gift of salvation will then do good works as a response to God. Most people already agree with the latter, which is why we do not bother arguing the point. There is dispute between Roman Catholicism and the Reformed tradition as to whether or not salvation is purely by faith, or by faith and works. This is why we more regularly emphasize the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith.

 

[MQTA]

uh, no

 

[Antoinette.Marie]

uh, no

Well, maybe not ALL Christians think that way, but I know I do. Salvation comes by faith and confessing that Jesus is Lord. By following His path, it is our duty as believers to love thy neighbor, welcome our brothers and sisters into our homes, etc.