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So why would Paul say that Jesus would deny him if that’s not actually a real consequence? I mean if Paul actually taught that believers would never want to deny Christ then what’s the point of threatening with the consequence of being denied by Christ and even including himself as being able to face that consequence that you’re saying true believers can’t actually face?
Are you saying that you don’t know what the doctrine of irresistible grace is?
It is a matter of both. . .the tree producing fruit in the allotted time, or the tree being cut down. . .depending on the nature of the tree (born again, or not).
Amen Jesus tries to save everyone but unfortunately not everyone will cooperate, Amen?
Precisely. . .because not everyone is sovereignly (whose sovereign choice is as unaccountable as the wind, Jn 3:6-8) born of the
I think you’re misunderstanding that passage. This was the case before Christ’s crucifixion when no one could come to Him unless The Father drew them. That’s changed now according to John 12:32 where Jesus is drawing all men to Himself.
So, why would Jesus be trying to save trees that The Father hasn’t enabled to be saved? If The Father said “cut it down” why would Jesus intervene and even try to save that person if they’re not capable of being saved? Does Jesus not know that they’re incapable of producing fruit unless The Father has made them born again? And if that person was born again by The Father to be saved, why would He tell Christ to cut it down? I’m still not seeing the logic here.
According to the parallel passage in John 15 it’s The Father that cuts off the branches in Christ that don’t bear fruit.
Unless the fig tree is the Jewish nation, not Gentiles, and the owner of the fig tree is the Father, who ordered the tree cut down because it bore no fruit (faith in Christ).
But it's a matter of fact that not all "the drawn" do come to him. . . because the Father has not "given "all to Jesus (Jn 6:37, 39-40).
Jn 15:1-8 is not a parallel passage of Lk 13:6-9. That is a misuse of "parallel passage."
Ok so there’s no connection between branches not bearing fruit being cut off from the vine and trees that Jesus is trying to save being cut down for the same reason.
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Very insightful Clare. The fact that eternal life is the same life Jesus has is evident...
It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. (Jn 6:45).
Amen, the others were not permitted to understand because they didn’t believe the OT prophecies.
Well, I have personally known only a handfull of people who have said they stopped believing. I have no way of verifying what they stopped believing or whether or not they ever possessed etverlasting life, but all of them had symptoms of a negative reaction to leglistic doctrines. I have not seen one of them for many years, but the last time I saw him he seemd to have recovered and I never thought of him as being lost or as having given up his trust in Christ. I have had regular contact with three others. The lifestyle (and beliefs/opinions) of two of them would likely lead a fruit inspector (which I am not one) to conclude that they are not saved and never were saved. The lifestyle (and beliefs/opinions) of the third is harder for me to read.
But are not all drawn (Jn 12:32)? (Yes). . .Do all come? (No)
