Wicked Lose your salvation Documentary on YouTube promoting a works based salvation

[prodromos]

You stating it refers to the nations does not make it so. Paul was writing to the members of the congregation in Rome. They were not a nation.

 

[Lukaris]

I believe what the Lord says in John 15:1-10 is on the individual level compared to what St. Paul preached in Romans 11 on the grand scale.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Paul is talking about Israel as a nation, not individual salvation. The olive tree represents the spiritual blessings of God, and the branches represent nations or groups of people (Jews and Gentiles), not individual believers losing salvation.
Romans 11:17-18 "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee."

• Some Jewish people (as a group) were broken off due to unbelief, not loss of salvation.
• Gentiles were grafted in, meaning they now partake in God’s spiritual blessings.
• This is about God turning from Israel as a nation and working with the Gentiles, not individuals losing salvation.

Romans 11:19-20 "Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:"

• The branches (Israel as a nation) were removed due to unbelief. This does not mean saved people lost salvation, but that God’s focus shifted to the Gentiles.
• The warning is against pride, not loss of salvation.

Romans 11:21-22 "For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

• Again, this is talking about nations, not individuals.
• If the Gentiles (as a whole) turn from God, He can shift His work again.
• This is about God’s dealings with groups of people, not individual salvation.

Romans 11:23 "And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again."

• If Israel as a nation believes again, God will restore them.
• This has nothing to do with an individual losing and regaining salvation but with God's dealings with nations.

So to conclude:

• Individual salvation is eternal (John 10:28, Romans 8:38-39).
• The warning is against national arrogance, not personal apostasy.
• Unbelief leads to being cut off from God's blessings, not losing salvation.

This passage actually proves eternal security, because it confirms that God is dealing with nations, not individuals, and that once you are saved, you are eternally secure in Christ. Romans 11 is about nations being used by God, not individuals losing salvation.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

You’re not making any sense at all because neither all Jews nor all Gentiles would turn to unbelief only individuals within each group would turn to unbelief and be cut off. So according to what you’re saying Paul must be cut off for unbelief because he’s a Jew right? All of the apostles must be cut off for their unbelief because they’re all Jews right? How can this be talking about entire nations if the apostles are Jews who are not cut off from the covenant? Obviously the only thing that makes sense is that each individual will be cut off or grafted in according to whether they believe or not. Thats the only interpretation that makes any sense.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You stating it refers to the nations does not make it so. Paul was writing to the members of the congregation in Rome. They were not a nation.

Yeah I’m having a hard time understanding how Paul could be referring to the entire nation of the Jews being cut off for their unbelief if Paul and the rest of the apostles are all Jews. That’s a clear indication that he’s not talking about the entire nation.

 

[Guojing]

Yeah I’m having a hard time understanding how Paul could be referring to the entire nation of the Jews being cut off for their unbelief if Paul and the rest of the apostles are all Jews. That’s a clear indication that he’s not talking about the entire nation.

Romans 11:1-5 gives you the answer.

The nation of Israel has fallen but God has a remnant from that nation who believe, those are Peter and the little flock (Luke 12:32).

That little flock is the true Israel (Romans 9:6), which is given the kingdom (Matthew 21:43), and they are the ones bearing fruit.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Romans 11:1-5 gives you the answer.

The nation of Israel has fallen but God has a remnant from that nation who believe, those are Peter and the little flock (Luke 12:32).

That little flock is the true Israel (Romans 9:6), which is given the kingdom (Matthew 21:43), and they are the ones bearing fruit.

The way I interpret the passage is that the nation has failed as a whole but not on the individual level. I believe that the partial hardening ended at the cross and was instituted in order to bring about Christ’s crucifixion.

 

[Guojing]

The way I interpret the passage is that the nation has failed as a whole but not on the individual level. I believe that the partial hardening ended at the cross and was instituted in order to bring about Christ’s crucifixion.

That basically means you believe the Body of Christ is now part of Israel.