Why Jews were made, not Born

[expos4ever]

Not meaningless according to Galatians:

“He who receives circumcision is obligated to the whole Law.”

This hardly supports the notion that Paul supports circumcision. I suggest that Paul is showing that a commitment to circumcision is a commitment to keeping the whole law. And we know that Paul believes the time of the law is over.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

God did not replace Israel. He broke off unbelievers from it. Paul, the Apostles and thousands of believers remained Israel.

Then why did Paul in Romans 11 say that ALL ISRAEL will be saved????? As I have said previously, you have no idea what you are talking about...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Did the Pharisees love Jesus? They are today's Jews according to their own sources.

yes some did

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Some laws were for the alien - possibly not circumcised. Some were for women - definitely not circumcised.

All needed to be circumcised to be attached to Israel

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Don't Messianic Jews [Jews converted to Jesus] still practice 8th day circumcision?
...but what about those converted Jews or proselytes still circumcising their male children on the 8th day who are born to them since their conversion?

How does a Jew "convert" to believe in our own Messiah?

 

[Dave L]

yes some did

They became Christians.

 

[Dave L]

Then why did Paul in Romans 11 say that ALL ISRAEL will be saved????? As I have said previously, you have no idea what you are talking about...

All Israel = Jews and gentiles believing in Christ. Romans says God will reunite any who believe in Christ with Israel.

“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” (Romans 11:23)

 

[Der Alte]

Then why did Paul in Romans 11 say that ALL ISRAEL will be saved????? As I have said previously, you have no idea what you are talking about...

Romans 11:19-26
(19) You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in."
(20) Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.
(21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
(22) Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
(23) And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
(24) After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
(25) I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
(26) and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.​

Note Paul included a condition for all Israel being saved "if they do not persist in unbelief." The gentiles also have a condition, "provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
(10) nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
(19) The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
(20) idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
(21) and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
(5) For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.​

Paul also said wrongdoers, sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers, impurity and debauchery, those who practice witchcraft, haters, jealous, selfish ambitious, dissenters, envious, drunkards, impure or greedy person will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Dave-W]

This hardly supports the notion that Paul supports circumcision. I suggest that Paul is showing that a commitment to circumcision is a commitment to keeping the whole law. And we know that Paul believes the time of the law is over.

Then why did he circ Timothy, who was already a New Covenant believer?

 

[Dave L]

Then why did he circ Timothy, who was already a New Covenant believer?

“Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was Greek.” (Acts 16:3)

 

[Dave-W]

All of the Jews in Paul's audience were already circumcised

Their children, those not yet born were not.

 

[Dave-W]

“Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was Greek.” (Acts 16:3)

Thus obligating him to the whole law.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

They became Christians.

No they remained Jews who believed in their Messiah.

 

[Dave L]

Their children, those not yet born were not.

It was meaningless after Calvary but the unbelievers kept up with the same customs as always. Paul taught:
“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.” (Romans 2:28–29)

 

[Dave L]

No they remained Jews who believed in their Messiah.

Jews = religion. They became Christians.

 

[Dave L]

Thus obligating him to the whole law.

It was superficial. Paul would not be hypocritical in teaching against it yet believing in it.
“And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.” (1 Corinthians 9:20–23)

 

[Dave-W]

It was meaningless after Calvary

If it was so meaningless, why did Paul warn against it to the Galatians?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

(23) And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

(25) I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
(26) and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.​

THAT was my point...Paul called them ISRAEL

 

[Dave-W]

It was superficial.

Being obligated to the Law is superficial???

 

[Dave L]

If it was so meaningless, why did Paul warn against it to the Galatians?

Because it was believing a lie and rejecting Christ to take it seriously.