Why Jeremiah 31:31-34 is YESHUA'S NEW Covenant

ToBeLoved

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You missed my point, much of what was promised in the covenant with Abraham has NOT happened yet. So, why then would it be any wonder at all if not all of the "new covenant" has happened yet?
Because Jesus did not say He fulfilled Abraham's covenant, Jesus said He fulfilled all of the Law. And the Law is the Old Covenant, which is talked about in Jeremiah 31:33 and the New Covenant that God would be makinig with them to replace the Old Covenant.

Abraham is separate.
 
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ToBeLoved

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You missed my point, much of what was promised in the covenant with Abraham has NOT happened yet. So, why then would it be any wonder at all if not all of the "new covenant" has happened yet?
If the Old Covenant was still in effect we would have to keep all of the Law perfectly.

How would you explain Gentiles if there is no new Covenant?

Why would Jesus have to die?
 
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Ken Rank

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Because Jesus did not say He fulfilled Abraham's covenant, Jesus said He fulfilled all of the Law. And the Law is the Old Covenant, which is talked about in Jeremiah 31:33 and the New Covenant that God would be makinig with them to replace the Old Covenant.

Abraham is separate.
You have missed my point or again, I have failed to explain it properly. You asked, in essence, why I can say we are children of God NOW and still not fully be in the covenant described in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8. My answer is to say that Abraham was a child of God but many aspects of the covenant made with him not only didn't happen in his lifetime... they still haven't happened in OURS.

So... if God could make a covenant with Abraham but have maybe half of it STILL not fulfilled, almost 4000 YEARS later... then why does it sound strange to you when I suggest that Yeshua could have shed the blood to renew (or make new, I don't care which you see) the covenant and yet have much of it STILL not fulfilled just 2000 years later? The text says that when the covenant is in effect there will no longer be a need to teach every man his brother because ALL WILL KNOW THE LORD. Do all know the Lord? No... do we still need to teach? Yes! Then we are not there yet, the specific written criteria has not been met yet.
 
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Ken Rank

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If the Old Covenant was still in effect we would have to keep all of the Law perfectly.

No, that is a misunderstanding of what Paul was saying. And besides... unless you are saying that there are no commandments we are to follow (i.e. homosexuality is no permitted, stealing, profaning God's name, etc.) then you really don't have a point. Because, unless you are suggesting we can be lawless (not obey God) then what you are saying is that we are still to obey God but we all know we fall short from time to time if for no other reason, than out of our fallen nature. That is why we need to be perfected... and until then, we do the best we can as guided by the Spirit through His Word.

How would you explain Gentiles if there is no new Covenant?

We wouldn't have this issue if this had been explained, consistently, as it had been back in the first century. Even the Acts 15 letter does NOT tell us all that is expected of a gentile. Those 4 commandments do not include serving only YHWH, not stealing, not honoring parents, etc. So are the 4 "it" or is there more? Wasn't that just a "starting point" which is why the next verse says that Moses (i.e. Torah) is read in the synagogues every Shabbat? Start with these 4 and then go be discipled? "All Scripture (the Torah, Prophets, and Writings at THAT TIME) are inspired by God and can be used to teach, correct and instruct in righteous living." (paraphrased) THAT is what is expected. Instead... Christianity tried to distance itself from it's Jewish roots... and God's instructions in the process. Return to them and this isn't an issue but we argue over it NOW because only NOW are we opening back up to things we once thought aren't even for us.

Why would Jesus have to die?

To reverse the curse of sin and death. The life of perfection for the lives of imperfection.
 
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ralliann

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The stone vanishes away as it is replaced with the text written directly on the hearts. That's it...
What? Neos can refer to not mature, or inexperienced. Besides as I mentioned earlier there is not two or more moons.
 
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ToBeLoved

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We wouldn't have this issue if this had been explained, consistently, as it had been back in the first century. Even the Acts 15 letter does NOT tell us all that is expected of a gentile. Those 4 commandments do not include serving only YHWH, not stealing, not honoring parents, etc. So are the 4 "it" or is there more? Wasn't that just a "starting point" which is why the next verse says that Moses (i.e. Torah) is read in the synagogues every Shabbat? Start with these 4 and then go be discipled? "All Scripture (the Torah, Prophets, and Writings at THAT TIME) are inspired by God and can be used to teach, correct and instruct in righteous living." (paraphrased) THAT is what is expected. Instead... Christianity tried to distance itself from it's Jewish roots... and God's instructions in the process. Return to them and this isn't an issue but we argue over it NOW because only NOW are we opening back up to things we once thought aren't even for us.
Why would we want to read the Old Testament every Saturday when it is all a shadow to the grand orchestra, Jesus Christ!

I don't think we try to distance ourselves from Jewish roots as far as the Old Covenant happened and was a shadow to Christ. But the Old Covenant was always meant for Israel, not the entire world. When God decided that His Son came for the sins of the world, a covenant with Israel, specific to that people was no needed. Jesus died for all. New High Priest, new law.
 
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ralliann

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You have missed my point or again, I have failed to explain it properly. You asked, in essence, why I can say we are children of God NOW and still not fully be in the covenant described in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8. My answer is to say that Abraham was a child of God but many aspects of the covenant made with him not only didn't happen in his lifetime... they still haven't happened in OURS.

So... if God could make a covenant with Abraham but have maybe half of it STILL not fulfilled, almost 4000 YEARS later... then why does it sound strange to you when I suggest that Yeshua could have shed the blood to renew (or make new, I don't care which you see) the covenant and yet have much of it STILL not fulfilled just 2000 years later? The text says that when the covenant is in effect there will no longer be a need to teach every man his brother because ALL WILL KNOW THE LORD. Do all know the Lord? No... do we still need to teach? Yes! Then we are not there yet, the specific written criteria has not been met yet.
We are to walk like Abraham, which is by faith. I already spoke concerning this in my first response, but you would not listen. Walking by faith is only by hoping and believing things that are not yet realized but promised. This is the law of faith Paul spoke of. As strangers and sojourners in this world and this life. Israel already attained under Moses and Joshua the first covenant promised land.
 
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We are to walk like Abraham, which is by faith. I already spoke concerning this in my first response, but you would not listen. Walking by faith is only by hoping and believing things that are not yet realized but promised. This is the law of faith Paul spoke of. As strangers and sojourners in this world and this life. Israel already attained under Moses and Joshua the first covenant promised land.
OH, I though we were supposed to walk like Jesus walked, which was also by faith. By the way, Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept the law and commandments... so perhaps our modern definition of faith (which we treat like belief but is really hear God and do what He says) needs adjusting. In any event... be well...
 
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Why would we want to read the Old Testament every Saturday when it is all a shadow to the grand orchestra, Jesus Christ!

I don't know... I guess those who convened for the Jerusalem Council thought it to be wise. So did Paul... who said "all scripture is given by the inspiration of God and can be used for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness." That was NOT the NT being referred to... there WAS NO NT when Paul wrote that.

I don't think we try to distance ourselves from Jewish roots as far as the Old Covenant happened and was a shadow to Christ. But the Old Covenant was always meant for Israel, not the entire world. When God decided that His Son came for the sins of the world, a covenant with Israel, specific to that people was no needed. Jesus died for all. New High Priest, new law.

So not for Ruth? Not for the foreigners who came out of Egypt with Israel despite God saying it was one Torah for Israel AND the stranger with them? You keep saying "only Israel" and the bible doesn't share that view. If you disagree with me... then what do you do with those foreigners or David's grandmother?
 
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Your definition of "new"arguments is in direct correlation to ONE MOON, not the first and second etc.
Scripture bases it's definition of new in direct correlation to two covenants. The first grows old and vanishes.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.


Anakaino is the Greek term for renew.
In light of Hebrews 8:13 I don't understand how the renewed covenant argument can be valid. The numerals 1 and 2 are completely different.
 
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You missed my point, much of what was promised in the covenant with Abraham has NOT happened yet. So, why then would it be any wonder at all if not all of the "new covenant" has happened yet?
It could be because you don't accept Luke 24:44 as true. It's a statement directly related to Matthew 5:17-18. Here's the text:

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

This text is critical to all prophecy being fulfilled allowing the new covenant to replace the old covenant.
 
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A different form of the word I have been sharing. As opposed to "nehos" (sometimes spelled neos) which means "brand new." A 1968 Mustang that you buy and restore has been made kainos... a 2018 Mustang is nehos. That is the language whether it stands in harmony with our theology or not.
G3501 neos/nehos includes the word regenerate in its definition which would convey renew. G2537 kainos does not. The definition for kainos includes: unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of, neos doesn't. To say both convey the same is error even though the word "new" appears in both definitions. Greek needs no discussion to what is meant. English does when a technical point is being made especially for words with less letters. For instance consider the word "go."
 
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OH, I though we were supposed to walk like Jesus walked, which was also by faith. By the way, Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept the law and commandments... so perhaps our modern definition of faith (which we treat like belief but is really hear God and do what He says) needs adjusting. In any event... be well...
It's impossible for Abraham to have kept the law issued at Mt Sinai because it came 430 years after him (Galatians 3:17). Besides that Moses says it wasn't given to him in Deuteronomy 5:3.
 
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I don't know... I guess those who convened for the Jerusalem Council thought it to be wise. So did Paul... who said "all scripture is given by the inspiration of God and can be used for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness." That was NOT the NT being referred to... there WAS NO NT when Paul wrote that.
Your statement is true. However it seems you wish to delete the NT we call Scripture. With no NT there's no such thing as redemption/salvation.
So not for Ruth? Not for the foreigners who came out of Egypt with Israel despite God saying it was one Torah for Israel AND the stranger with them? You keep saying "only Israel" and the bible doesn't share that view. If you disagree with me... then what do you do with those foreigners or David's grandmother?
Any male joining the covenant given to Israel has to be circumcised and no longer is a stranger but as one born in the land (a Jew). See Exodus 12:48. So the whole argument about there being a mixed multitude at Mt Sinai is an error. Moses wrote God said "call the children of Israel." There's never anything about a mixed multitude being called.
 
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You have missed my point or again, I have failed to explain it properly. You asked, in essence, why I can say we are children of God NOW and still not fully be in the covenant described in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8. My answer is to say that Abraham was a child of God but many aspects of the covenant made with him not only didn't happen in his lifetime... they still haven't happened in OURS.

So... if God could make a covenant with Abraham but have maybe half of it STILL not fulfilled, almost 4000 YEARS later... then why does it sound strange to you when I suggest that Yeshua could have shed the blood to renew (or make new, I don't care which you see) the covenant and yet have much of it STILL not fulfilled just 2000 years later? The text says that when the covenant is in effect there will no longer be a need to teach every man his brother because ALL WILL KNOW THE LORD. Do all know the Lord? No... do we still need to teach? Yes! Then we are not there yet, the specific written criteria has not been met yet.
You refusing Luke 24:44 as truth right along with other evidence in the NT that indeed Jeremiah 31:31-33 is fulfilled and we currently have that new covenant.
 
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No, that is a misunderstanding of what Paul was saying. And besides... unless you are saying that there are no commandments we are to follow (i.e. homosexuality is no permitted, stealing, profaning God's name, etc.) then you really don't have a point. Because, unless you are suggesting we can be lawless (not obey God) then what you are saying is that we are still to obey God but we all know we fall short from time to time if for no other reason, than out of our fallen nature. That is why we need to be perfected... and until then, we do the best we can as guided by the Spirit through His Word.
No pro gracer here promotes immoral activity that I've read. If you care to check this is only promoted by the law contingency.
We wouldn't have this issue if this had been explained, consistently, as it had been back in the first century. Even the Acts 15 letter does NOT tell us all that is expected of a gentile. Those 4 commandments do not include serving only YHWH, not stealing, not honoring parents, etc. So are the 4 "it" or is there more? Wasn't that just a "starting point" which is why the next verse says that Moses (i.e. Torah) is read in the synagogues every Shabbat? Start with these 4 and then go be discipled? "All Scripture (the Torah, Prophets, and Writings at THAT TIME) are inspired by God and can be used to teach, correct and instruct in righteous living." (paraphrased) THAT is what is expected. Instead... Christianity tried to distance itself from it's Jewish roots... and God's instructions in the process. Return to them and this isn't an issue but we argue over it NOW because only NOW are we opening back up to things we once thought aren't even for us.
You take a historical statement to be a command to attend the synagogue. Do you attend a Jewish synagogue? If so do they preach Jesus as Messiah? Be honest.
 
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