ChristianDude777,
...behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
It's about an inner spiritual experience. You'll never find the outside proof that so many people seek. It's just not about outward proof.
All you have to do to know that what I'm telling you is True is to go to Him yourself.
Yes. And God shall make me a sign that I will understand.
* * *
John812,
I want God to tell ME that
That's probably not going to happen, as in only very rare cases (I think very very rare) this happens, and then the circumstances would probably be very unique, as was the case with Paul.
Well, then this god of yours is a mermaid, and can sit up there, if he is there, and I really couldn't care less for him. I will not believe due to intimidation and threats.
Neither will I indulge any kind of superstition.
I have seen no miracles regarding Christ. You are asking me to believe what has to me the status of hearsay. You are asking me to be superstitious.
There are the 4 gospels, the numerous letters of Paul, 2 letters of Peter, 3 letters of John, James, Jude, Hebrews, Revelation. If you don't think this is enough evidence then I would say you would not believe even if there was 1000 times more evidence than this.
***********************
See, it is because of things like what you've just said that I think Christianity is a mere myth. A banging-your-head-against-the-wall until it hurts so bad that one can believe anything, even that circles are square.
The events 2000 years back are NOT evidence.
Evidence is when one sees for oneself that God is an interventionist God, that God makes a change in a person and bestowes them with faith.
Instead, you are feeding me those events as evidence, while I am forever exlcuded from them. You propose nothing else but Pascal's Wager. Which is non-biblical anyway, because faith is (supposedly) a gift from God, and a person cannot will to have faith.
I really wish you Christians would get your arguments straight, because you have turned Christianity into superstition and magic.
It's idiotic to suppose I should believe God did all those things 2000 years back also for me, but now, I should be with no knowledge of Him, and just mutter my life away in fear and uncertainty.
* * *
Morning Dove,
Allah was originally worshipped as a moon god before Islam came to be. Then Islam took it and made a new religion several centuries after Christ came. Since this god didn't exist very far into history, how could it be the "right" one?
That's not a good argument. Allah might have come late -- but this could because because it took people a while to recognize him.
* * *
Morning Dove,
In my experience, people who criticize the Bible and Christianity so much have yet to read the entire Bible. If you read it with an open mind, many answers will come to your questions. Stop calling it "circular reasoning" and see the reasoning of the Scriptures.
I am not calling the Bible circular. I am saying that many Christians have circular interpretations of the Bible.
Plus, one cannot will to have an "open mind".
How many times does God have to tell the story? He told it once, and we should read for ourselves how God thinks and acts. God does not need to repeat himself over and over again. He promised the Messiah, and He came. The prophecies of the Bible are coming true. If that doesn't prove it to you, nothing will. Then you will always be skeptical of God and the promises.
You don't understand me, do you?
I have no desire or need to see Jesus die on the cross again or a "modern version" of that.
An answered prayer would suffice.
* * *
Christian_Victor,
All of you here seem to use the Bible as proof that the Christian God is the true god.
BUT, if someone is asking which god is correct, and you use the Bible to show, it shows NOTHING.
Someone tried to prove Islam wrong by using the "Bible's test". Well, Islam clearly states that the Bible is corrupt. So, this doesn't prove that Islam is wrong or right, now does it?
All other religions don't use the Christian Bible, either. So, it is impossible to try to prove them wrong with our Bible, when you should rather use THEIR Bible.
Exactly. If we consider the I don't know how many thousand religions that there are, it would take the whole life to just briefly peek into each one of them, much less possible to actually try out each one oneself.
So empiricism is not the way to find the right one.
To the thread creator: I think that you should follow whatever makes you happy. As long as you REALLY want to server the true God (even if you don't know he is the true God), I'm sure that the true God will, when you die, forgive and/or give you another chance since you really DID want to serve Him.
Thank you!
* * *
Christian_Victor,
Well, you don't give any proof here that Allah was once a moon god.
You CAN be right, but it's best to show some proof (and don't use the Bible, because it may not work).
If I told someone "the Christian God was once the god of the sun, but then Christians changed him" will they believe it without proof? Not unless they don't take it into thought.
These "so and so was first a moon/sun/water/etc. god" explanations don't say anything.
Humans have not thought about nature and life the same way throughout history, their understanding was changing over time.
It is reasonable to assume that the *same* eternal God was, at some point, SEEN as a "sun god", and at some later point as "Jehovah" -- depending on the people and their particular culture.
One God, but many interpretations.
* * *
ChristianDude777,
Who's Words do you think are more able to convict a person's heart, God's or ours..???
I so hope you meant 'convince'.
The problem is that Christians often come across as if their words, their workings are the things to convince a person -- and then hold a grudge against the one whom they haven't been able to convince. They like to forget it is God who gives faith and understanding.
* * *
Christian_Victor
Definatly God's words!
But, I believe you're missing my point.
Do you think that you can convince an Athiest with a book he doesn't believe in? NO! You have to use another message that will help you convert him (the message from God, of course).
This is the same case, except the thread creator is searching for the true religion.
The Bible isn't God's ONLY message, remember this.
GOD can bring someone to the true religion, but you must use ANOTHER method from God besides the Bible (which is a book that they don't believe in, and therefore they won't listen to).
Enter evangelical professionalism.
This is a frequent mistake Christians make, thereby spitting into their own bowl (sorry, but it is painfully true): One is advised to read the Bible, and then ask questions.
Good.
When talking next time, the Christians rarely ask whether one has done what one has been told the previous time, ie. to read the Bible. And they just go on talking and discussing anyways.
Fatal.
Why can't they be professional and say "Look, I will talk to you and answer your questions, but you must first read the Bible. Then we'll talk." And if the non_christians comes next time still not having read the Bible, the Christian should be professional and insist on his position.
Any teacher knows that if in a literature course a book is being discussed, and that all are to read it, it is pointless to try and discuss it with a student who hasn't read.
Much worse even: Indulging a discussion with someone who isn't prepared is doing much damage to what the teacher is trying to achieve.
I think it is wrong that Christians indulge in discussions with people who haven't read the Bible. If you tell someone that they first have to read the Bible -- then insist, be consistent, keep your ground, be disciplined: don't talk to the person if they haven't done their homework.
I have no problem with Christians referring to the Bible as the only source. But they should be more disciplined.
An indulging and conniving teacher is the worst teacher.
* * *
ChristianDude777,
Then what is the other message(s)..??
The power of example.
And what other method would recommend?
Consistency.
If someone won't listen to God's own Word, they certainly won't listen to ours.
The thing is that the Bible is being interpreted. As if the text itself is so mysterious, so unitelligible that a simple mortal could not read and understand it.
Jesus came to bring a sword -- you are making it into a paper-knife.
It's not like they can see our lives and judge for themselves what our fruits are.
We can observe your discipline and consistency in communication.
I don't mean to be offensive. But I just distinctly feel that non-Christians must first educate the Christians a bit, so that the Christians will then be able to get their message across right.
I don't want to wade through tons of layman interpretations. By being so willing to dispense those layman interpretations, Christians are indulging in the very unhealthy practice of keeping people from reading the Bible. Like, "If you don't want to read the Bible, then I'll tell you with my own words what salvation is about". No. You should, in no way, indulge the not reading of the Bible.
You might say, "But I tell people to read, I can't make them read". What I think your answer to people not reading the Bible should be the same as the teacher's at literature class: "We can't talk unless you've read the book".
There is no disrespect in this. Only discipline.
* * *
ChristianDude777
To the thread creator: I think that you should follow whatever makes you happy. As long as you REALLY want to server the true God (even if you don't know he is the true God), I'm sure that the true God will, when you die, forgive and/or give you another chance since you really DID want to serve Him.
This is in no way what the Truth of the Bible teaches. Not even close.
People can follow whatever God makes them happy, of course, but only Jesus Christ can give them forgiveness of sin and access to God our Father. He wasn't crucified for no reason.
For one, you don't know me and therefore don't know what Christian Victor's words mean for me.
And for two, *I* still don't know whether Christianity is the truest of the true God. So your estimation is not true to me. (Regardless of what you may think. If I don't believe it, I can't act accordingly to it.)
* * *
Christian_Victor,
Easy.
If you're with the person, any gift of the Holy Spirit (you can even show some of them over the Internet).
Prayer.
Try and succeed with God.
Heh. God is often underestimated, isn't He?
* * *
Christian_Victor,
If someone REALLY wants to serve God, but is blinded by which God is the true one, I'm sure God will show him/her and/or forgive them.
I think so too. It is to my relief that God knows better.
You make good sense.
I don't even think you need to think outside of the box on this one.
Of course.
Sorry, but this is pretty funny. Allah is literally just the Arabic word for God. If you read the Christian Bible translated into Arabic language, Allah is in there all over the place.
