Why it's better to believe

[jesusbeforeyou]

What do you lose if you don't believe in Jesus and Christians are right.

You lose a personal Savior who loves you more than any person can.
You lose the sacrifice that was offered to you freely, but which came at great cost to Jesus and the Father.
You lose the Comforter which is the Holy Spirit which Jesus send you in his name'
You lose the gifts of the Holy Spirit from everything to love to healing.
You lose out on hope even as your dying , and purpose for your life.
You lose out on forgiveness and will be judged for your sinfulness.
You lose out on Heaven and being forever with God,

what are the reasons to believe above other religions?

1. Christianity is not unsure of the way as many faiths are. They have Jesus who has been with the Father and came from Heaven.
2. Christianity is the only faith with witnesses of Resurrection and a Savior who had authority over demons, healed the sick, and even raised the dead.
3. Christianity is the only faith that acknowledges man's sinfulness and his need for redemption not through his own works, but through God's sacrifice.
4. Christianity is the faith with a Lord who testified of his calling through works, through miracles, and even through the voice of God the Father which many witnessed.

you don't lose anything by believing that you wont gain back a hundred times over. The things you do lose are pride, sin, selfishness, hate, worry, and fear. While it takes time to grow and obey the Lord God is with you every step of the way and his love endures forever.

Unlike many false gods the true God will never forsake you because of your failure. Repentance and confession open God's arms of love and forgiveness.

 

[ebia]

This forum is for non-Christians to ask questions, not for Christians to post tracts.

 

[Cute Tink]

From what I understand, taking the "safe bet" is not belief and won't get you anywhere. You are supposed to accept Jesus and God into your heart and request forgiveness for your sins and that isn't what you are advocating here.

 

[drich0150]

From what I understand, taking the "safe bet" is not belief and won't get you anywhere. You are supposed to accept Jesus and God into your heart and request forgiveness for your sins and that isn't what you are advocating here.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

From what I understand, taking the "safe bet" is not belief and won't get you anywhere. You are supposed to accept Jesus and God into your heart and request forgiveness for your sins and that isn't what you are advocating here.

Actually Our God is an awesome God. His love, his compassion, his incredible forgiveness is wayyyyy beyond our understanding. If you truely have a desire to believe, he will eventually send your soul a life raft .

I pretty much look at this the same way Doctor William Lane Craig does. He is a Molinist who believes that Our Awesome God tries to put us in the best situation to accept the holy spirit, and at the same time respecting free will. He is like a loving parent that will do his best to teach us and to love us but he is also wise enough to understand that if he gives us whatever we want he will spoil us in the long run.

Seek and you shall find. I have a fellow poster on another forum that came to know god first through pure logic. His motto is irrationality is not believing in God.

The problem with most unbelievers is that they have been brought up in a secular educational system believing that empiricism is the sole way to get to the truth. This is a logical fallacy

empiricism is a logical contradiction.

 

[Cute Tink]

My apologies, but I wasn't referring to knowledge, but belief. I have been told by churches and believers repeatedly that you must accept Jesus into your heart to be saved, not that you get saved by making the "safe bet". In fact, I have talked to a believer who was presented with a very similar argument to this one and rejected it on the same basis, which was the core reason for my response.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

My apologies, but I wasn't referring to knowledge, but belief. I have been told by churches and believers repeatedly that you must accept Jesus into your heart to be saved, not that you get saved by making the "safe bet". In fact, I have talked to a believer who was presented with a very similar argument to this one and rejected it on the same basis, which was the core reason for my response.

Why not make the same leap of trust that Mother theresa did? She suffered from the dark night of the soul right up to her death. She lived her last 50 years walking in the dark even though every part of her brain was telling her to believe otherwise.

I think what we need to study here is the definition of faith. It isnt always about warm and fuzzy feelings, and why do you think that taking the safe bet isnt belief. What do u think that motehr theresa did, what martin luther did, what saint john of the cross did. They all placed their bets in complete darkness and kept obeying gods laws till the end.

 

[Cute Tink]

Perhaps I'm not being clear in my explanation: I don't think that taking the "safe bet" is faith at all. I don't think it's belief. It's putting money on red and waiting to see what happens when the ball stops.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Im very clear on your explanation, but I dont think my point is getting across. The fact that your even placing a bet on the safe bet shows that you have the faith of a mustard seed. Meaning you have very little faith

Take Paul for example. He didnt even believe until Jesus showed himself to him after his resurrection(talk about needing a hammer dropped on top of you). This is called having even lesser faith.

Isnt Gods love amazing

 

[drich0150]

"Faith" is only one step in the greater relationship that we are to have with God in order to find salvation.

The men (in Mat 7 starting at verse 20) who performed all of the miracles and exorcisms in the name of God surly must have had great faith, and yet somehow still failed to obtain simple salvation. Jesus explains this by saying: "Away from me I never knew you." Implying that faith alone is not enough, we must know God/Jesus. Which means we must have and maintain a relationship.

Don't get me wrong, faith is very important. Faith is the direction we must travel when in a relationship with God. Without faith our journey cannot be completed.
For example, Just because one knows which direction he must travel and believes that he is able to complete the journey, doesn't mean the journey has been completed just because one believes.
We are also told even the Demons believe and shutter, this belief, does not equate to salvation.

 

[98cwitr]

empiricism is a logical contradiction.

can you elaborate on this thought please? The reason many believe in God is empirical.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

can you elaborate on this thought please? The reason many believe in God is empirical.

Ill try,
This is from an absolutely brilliant Believer in Christ who came into the faith from a hardcore atheist background. If he ever came in this forum there wouldnt be very many atheist left. His stuff is brilliant.

Here is what he told me a while ago.

"It means that Empiricism is self refuting. The strong empirical claim that "knowledge only arises form the senses" is itself a claim that did not arise from the senses. ergo, it is a logical contradiction. the statement disproves itself.


the atheist shoots himself in the foot with that argument.

so claims as to the importance of "empirical evidence" represent a complete lack of critical thinking skills among atheists. most of whom are little more than repeaters of the last thing they heard or saw from an atheist web site or books.

Hope this helps.

He actually can show by Logic alone (on the atheists own terms) why God must exist. Even out of the debating professionals like William Craig, I must say I have never seen anyone as brilliant at debunking atheists as this guy is.
Im just glad hes on our side now, because he gives atheists nightmares.

Im trying to stay out of appologetics because of my Major OCD problems, but if you need a link to a few of his debates i would be glad to pm it to you.

 

[Orraez]

What do you lose if you don't believe in Jesus and Christians are right.

then follows a list of things lost.

you don't lose anything by believing that you wont gain back a hundred times over.

Well it depends whether the Christian position is right or wrong. The Buddhist position is that a belief in eternal-ism ( i.e belief in an immortal God and soul etc) is a wrong view that will keep us on the wheel of suffering for as long as those beliefs are held. So if the Christians are wrong and the Buddhists are right - then the Christian has a lot to lose. I could but I won't give a list of the benefits of having Buddhist right views

 

[Orraez]

Ill try,

Im trying to stay out of appologetics because of my Major OCD problems, but if you need a link to a few of his debates i would be glad to pm it to you.

Yes, I would like a link , please.

 

[Cute Tink]

Yes, I would like a link , please.

I PMed it to you in case he doesn't see your request.

 

[Orraez]

I PMed it to you in case he doesn't see your request.

If I haven't done so elsewhere. Many thanks

 

[AgnosticDude777]

PM me too Christian-Catholic plz?

 

[razeontherock]

Why not post the link?

I don't think that taking the "safe bet" is faith at all. I don't think it's belief. It's putting money on red and waiting to see what happens when the ball stops.

"Paschal's wager," IIRC; so you are correct. I fear where you are wrong is you confuse Faith with merely believing something, like pretending. That won't cut it. Rationale can lead to Faith, but is not enough. Ultimately, God has the verdict, and He gave the right to decide either way to Jesus. It really takes a personal relationship with Him, and like any other relationship it takes two. You really can know when that occurs, which is the beginning of Faith if you ask me.

This is what the story of Cain and Abel is all about. Brothers don't just sit down to dinner talking about beliefs they don't really know anything about and kill each other; they knew there was a difference. One was admitted into a relationship with God, the other was not.

 

[Orraez]

Why not post the link?



It really takes a personal relationship with Him, and like any other relationship it takes two. You really can know when that occurs, which is the beginning of Faith if you ask me.

This reminds me of the time when I was still a Buddhist when I developed a personal relationship with Vajrasattva, the Bodhisattva of purity. At first one does not notice any evidence of a relationship. But when one converses and focuses on his qualities over time one experiences a presence. Occasionally one is graced with advice on how to live one´s life. Even today, when I no longer believe, I still feel his presence and the words of his mantra come unsummoned to me.

I also experience a relationship with the virgin Mary and from time to time the words of the Hail Holy Queen come unbidden as if to remind me. In both cases one feels a "real" benign presence

So, it is true that one can develop these very personal relationships with mythical beings that can seem more real than our day to day relationships with friends, lover and family.

 

[razeontherock]

This has no bearing on Christianity, nor does it have any semblance to the Word being verified by signs and wonders following it.