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Why it's better to believe

Mar 14, 2010
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Your confusing mythical beings with real beings. Jesus was real and came to the earth and so was Mary. No other religion has the testimony that the new testament has. The fact that the miracles performed by Jesus were even witnessed by his most hated enemies and people that didnt believe in him is just one point of reason that isnt just about faith. Saul of tarsus was the biggest killer of christians yet he himself converted when he saw the transformed body of Christ. Peter Stoner, an expert mathametician set out to find the odds of Jesus Christ fullfilling all of the messianic prophicies and the odds came out to something like a trillion over a trillion (meaning virtually impossible by chance).

Professor Emeritus of Science at Westmont College, Peter Stoner, has calculated the probability of one man fulfilling the major prophecies made concerning the Messiah. The estimates were worked out by twelve different classes representing some 600 university students.
The students carefully weighed all the factors, discussed each prophecy at length, and examined the various circumstances which might indicate that men had conspired together to fulfill a particular prophecy. They made their estimates conservative enough so that there was finally unanimous agreement even among the most skeptical students.
However Professor Stoner then took their estimates, and made them even more conservative. He also encouraged other skeptics or scientists to make their own estimates to see if his conclusions were more than fair. Finally, he submitted his figures for review to a committee of the American Scientific Affiliation. Upon examination, they verified that his calculations were dependable and accurate in regard to the scientific material presented (Peter Stoner, Science Speaks, Chicago: Moody Press, 1969, 4).

To say that believing in Christianity is the same as believing in other religions and its about mythical beings is being a bit ignorant and it shows that you actually didnt study this area much. There is also no book in ancient times that comes even close to the historicity of the bible.
For example you can trace the first witness described in pauls first letter to the corinthian church to within 1 to 5 years after Jesus's Resurrection.
In main stream historian academia this simply allows no time for a myth to evolve or the story to be changed around. Take a look at the history of alexander the great which was written 200 to 300 years after he died and yet most people dont doubt that alexander existed. The problem these days is that the media and academia has been hijacked by a secular materialistic thinking that is first flawed in their belief in empiricism is the only way to discover truth and yet as my friend on the other forum has continually proved, empricism itself is self refuting.

This reminds me of the time when I was still a Buddhist when I developed a personal relationship with Vajrasattva, the Bodhisattva of purity. At first one does not notice any evidence of a relationship. But when one converses and focuses on his qualities over time one experiences a presence. Occasionally one is graced with advice on how to live one´s life. Even today, when I no longer believe, I still feel his presence and the words of his mantra come unsummoned to me.

I also experience a relationship with the virgin Mary and from time to time the words of the Hail Holy Queen come unbidden as if to remind me. In both cases one feels a "real" benign presence

So, it is true that one can develop these very personal relationships with mythical beings that can seem more real than our day to day relationships with friends, lover and family.
 
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Orraez

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To say that believing in Christianity is the same as believing in other religions and its about mythical beings is being a bit ignorant and it shows that you actually didnt study this area much. There is also no book in ancient times that comes even close to the historicity of the bible.
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Indeed it would be ignorant! Well first of all I did not say that believing in Christianity is the same as believing in other religions. Nor did I bring up or question its claims to historicity. I made neither of these points as they had no relevancy to my observation. I am afraid you have been doing battle with straw men of your own making.

I did notice a similarity between people who claimed to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and my own experience with Vajrasattva. Now whilst you may object to the word "mythical" ,I assume it is because you are interpreting it in its modern sense of fictitious - it has to be admitted that neither Christian nor Buddhist see these relationships as delusional. Also it has to be admitted that both religions use the word myth in its non-fictitious sense.

When Christians today say that they have a personal relationship with Jesus, they don't mean Jesus in the flesh. They mean a Jesus that is not available to the 5 senses. However, this relationships effects one emotionally and through ones thoughts. Also evidence of the reality of the relationship can be seen in various signs such as dreams, decision making and prophecy and in the fact that positive changes can be seen.

This is also true of Buddhism when one develops a relationship with one of the many bodhisattvas. It was this similarity and this similarity alone I was pointing too. Whilst you are right to state that Christianity and other religions are not the same, I also hope you would not assert that there can never be any similarities! If I were to make a statement then it would be that claims of a personal relationship with a spiritual being is not unique to Christianity.
 
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there is a similarity to someone that doesnt understand that Christianity is about having fellowship to the one true God and to the truth. The feeling when one has fellowship with God is real. I was simply responding to your post when you said MYTHICAL BEINGS and that is where my response has bearing to. Notice I said the true God.
 
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razeontherock

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I did notice a similarity between people who claimed to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and my own experience with ...


When Christians today say that they have a personal relationship with Jesus, they mean a Jesus that is not available to the 5 senses. However, this relationships effects one emotionally and through ones thoughts. Also evidence of the reality of the relationship can be seen in various signs such as dreams, decision making and prophecy and in the fact that positive changes can be seen.

Nope. Not Christianity, as I posted previously. What you're describing is mysticism, and it's not merely semantics. It's ok to share your experience, and you're in the right forum to do so; but please don't try to define something you don't know first-hand for yourself.

One key element of Christianity is you can't see what it is from the outside, looking in. Further, from the outside it's intentionally too boring to be attractive for any typical (carnal) reason. I could rattle off several Scriptures to this effect, but the point stands.

There may be some overlap like you're pointing out, but most Christians would disagree by saying their walk with God has no mystical properties, and the positive changes are due to their own behavior. What you're missing is the underlying foundation, the rock that it's built on. Take that away and ya got nuthin'. Nothing but mysticism and positive thinking anyway.
 
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Orraez

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there is a similarity to someone that doesnt understand that Christianity is about having fellowship to the one true God and to the truth. The feeling when one has fellowship with God is real.
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I am sure that is true but there is also a similarity to someone who does understand that Christianity is about having a relationship to the one true God and to the truth. One can understand the assertion without accepting it.



I was simply responding to your post when you said MYTHICAL BEINGS and that is where my response has bearing to. Notice I said the true God.

I rather regret using the terminology mythical beings. It was not my intention to mean that Christians did not believe their God was real or to get into a debate about the historicity of Jesus!.
 
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Orraez

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Nope. Not Christianity, as I posted previously. What you're describing is mysticism, and it's not merely semantics. It's ok to share your experience, and you're in the right forum to do so; but please don't try to define something you don't know first-hand for yourself..

. I went no further than to say that the respective figures (God and Vajrasattva) were objects of intense focus. That does not imply mysticism. I have spoken to many Christians from a variety of denominations. When I ask how they know that they are in a relationship with God they speak of the things I mentioned in my initial post. Some talk of feelings , others of miracles, dreams, communication etc. So my experience is based on what people have said to me. I have not tried to define anything. I have pointed out similarities in how Christians and Buddhists explain their experience of the "relationship" Now it can be argued that those Christians who told me those things may not know their religion as well as you and are indulging in mysticism - but I can only repeat what they told me.

One key element of Christianity is you can't see what it is from the outside, looking in. Further, from the outside it's intentionally too boring to be attractive for any typical (carnal) reason. I could rattle off several Scriptures to this effect, but the point stands.

I don't understand the relevance of this point to my observing similarities in peoples' special "relationship".

There may be some overlap like you're pointing out, but most Christians would disagree by saying their walk with God has no mystical properties, and the positive changes are due to their own behavior. What you're missing is the underlying foundation, the rock that it's built on. Take that away and ya got nuthin'. Nothing but mysticism and positive thinking anyway.

Most Buddhists and Christians reject mysticism. I don't think there was anything in what I said that could be construed as mysticism - no talk of becoming one with the object of contemplation. With Christians they have simply thanked God for giving them the grace to change their behaviour. Your last sentence asserts, of course, the traditional and orthodox Christian perspective. I would agree that one can only talk in terms of some overlap. I am sure we would agree that there are many differences.
 
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