Why Islam is not Christian

[Michie]

I thought this thread was about religion. Not politics.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I thought this thread was about religion. Not politics.

Whoa let's not get crazy here.

 

[Michie]

Lol! You guys take your filthy politics to the political forum.

Whoa let's not get crazy here.

 

[imind]

I see the claim made over and over again that Islam is a Christian heresy.

Here's why Islam is not Christian and is not even a Christian heresy:

i've never heard this in my life, but i'll play along anyway...

1)

The founder of Islam, Muhammad, was never a Christian.

True

2)

Islam explicitly rejects Christianity. The Quran directly addresses Christians and tells us to give up our faith in the Holy Trinity and calls us deceived. And Muslims believe that our Holy Bible has been corrupted. They tell a totally new and different story and say that Adam and Eve, Abraham, and all the rest were Muslims. And they say that Abraham's blessing was through Ismael instead of through Isaac. This is why Islam is inherently hostile to the Jewish people since it says in the Holy Bible that Isaac was the one who received the blessing and that therefore the Jews are God's first chosen people.

islam is not anymore "inherently hostile" to jews than christians are.

3)

Islam has more in common with the pagan religion of Muhammad's ancestors than it has in common with Christianity.

debatable, as christianity has co-opted some pagan "ideas" as well.

4)

Muhammad's teachings and example are the opposite of Jesus. Jesus tells us to love our enemies and to forgive them even when they persecute us. But Muhammad tells his followers to kill the unbelievers.

stop comparing muhammad to christ. they are BOTH prophets in islam. muhammad is NOT god as christ is. and this argument further breaks down when you consider how violent our god is. god is not separate from jesus.

But aren't there Muslims who are peaceful?

Yes.

Who are they?
The secular Muslims or a Muslim in name alone, the ones who don't follow all of the teachings of Muhammad.

there are many more muslims who are peaceful. don't be dishonest here. you are in no position to have any knowledge of this subject.

But can't Christianity be taken to the extreme?

Yes. An example of Christianity taken to the extreme is Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
.

another example would be the KKK, abortion doctor killers, the terrorists in ireland on both sides of the fence, the iron guard, the NLFT.
the point is any religion can be radicalized and christianity, like islam, has been in the past and now, even within the church.

i think we've had enough of the hate towards muslims...its counterproductive and childish.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

i've never heard this in my life, but i'll play along anyway...


True


islam is not anymore "inherently hostile" to jews than christians are.


debatable, as christianity has co-opted some pagan "ideas" as well.


stop comparing muhammad to christ. they are BOTH prophets in islam. muhammad is NOT god as christ is. and this argument further breaks down when you consider how violent our god is. god is not separate from jesus.


there are many more muslims who are peaceful. don't be dishonest here. you are in no position to have any knowledge of this subject.



another example would be the KKK, abortion doctor killers, the terrorists in ireland on both sides of the fence, the iron guard, the NLFT.
the point is any religion can be radicalized and christianity, like islam, has been in the past and now, even within the church.

i think we've had enough of the hate towards muslims...its counterproductive and childish.

That's odd. It's a common belief in Catholic and Orthodox circles.

http://www.stpeterslist.com/11698/i...resy-8-quotes-from-st-john-damascene-a-d-749/

 

[LivingWordUnity]

i've never heard this in my life

People argue it in this thread.

islam is not anymore "inherently hostile" to jews than christians are.

Christians and Jews sometimes don't get along, but we generally don't stay angry with each other. And there are a lot of Christians who strongly support Israel and the Jewish people. That's mainly because Christians recognize that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is a Jew. Christians believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. But Muslims generally dislike Jews for a reason that is irreconcilable because it has to do with Islam's denial that the Jews were ever God's chosen people.

stop comparing muhammad to christ. they are BOTH prophets in islam. muhammad is NOT god as christ is. and this argument further breaks down when you consider how violent our god is. god is not separate from jesus.

It's reasonable to compare the founder of one religion with the founder of another. And we can see that there's an infinite difference between the founder of Christianity vs the founder of Islam.

there are many more muslims who are peaceful. don't be dishonest here. you are in no position to have any knowledge of this subject.

Many more than what? I didn't give any number for how many peaceful Muslims there are. Are you saying that you know the exact number of peaceful Muslims there are in the world?

another example would be the KKK

The KKK goes against the teachings of Jesus Christ, and I'm sure they represent less than 1% of Christians in the world. Also, they are pretty much inactive as far as terrorism activities go. The only thing they do nowadays is have their hooded parades.

abortion doctor killers

Abortionists rarely get murdered.

the terrorists in ireland

The IRA was motivated by socialism but later renounced violence.

"Much more devastating was the conflict in Northern Ireland. For thirty years, the Irish Republican Army (IRA), or more accurately the Provisional IRA, a militant offshoot of the IRA formed in 1969, was the preeminent terrorist organization in Europe. Dedicated to establishing a united, socialist Ireland along Marxist-Leninist lines, the Provisional IRA waged an unremitted struggle against the British presence in Northern Ireland, killing over 1,800 people and injuring as many as 20,000 others (security forces and militant Protestant groups killed another 1,200 people during the same thirty-year period)." - Europe in the Twentieth Century (added emphasis)​

Meanwhile, Islamic terrorism shows no sign of ever ending. Here's what Jordan's King Abdullah II (a Muslim) said about the problem of Islamic terrorism:

Jordan's king: Fight on ISIS "a third world war"

"This is a Muslim problem. We need to take ownership of this. We need to stand up and say what is right and what is wrong...This is a war inside of Islam. So we have to own up to it. We have to take the lead. And we have to start fighting back. And all of us have to make that decision and stand up to the plate and take our responsibilities." - King Abdullah II​

i think we've had enough of the hate towards muslims...its counterproductive and childish.

The charge that I created this thread to hate on Muslims is simply not true. There are some Muslims that I respect, but I don't want this thread to get political. Besides, Muslims would be offended by someone calling their religion a Christian heresy.

 

[bill5]

Me too. Only I know countless of them and this behavior is few and far between. I have the displeasure of knowing one Muslim personally and he fits a stereotype.

Not exactly a valid sample size there...

And presumably, the US was fine without Africans and Asians.

There was never a time our country existed without either (perhaps Asians, by and large, in our earliest years of existence). ie I don't see anyone "presuming" that.

FACT.....The first mosque in Britain is recorded as having been at 2 Glyn Rhondda Street, Cardiff, in 1860 .

You are ignoring what he said and IMO playing word games, as he implied earlier. Muslims on the whole have been flooding Europe recently and it isn't exactly going well, FYI.

But yes, open the floodgates and let people from wherever cmon down whenever and however they want. That's clearly a brilliant idea and has worked SO well (in Europe as well as the states).

 

[bill5]

People argue it in this thread.Christians and Jews sometimes don't get along, but we generally don't stay angry with each other. And there are a lot of Christians who strongly support Israel and the Jewish people. That's mainly because Christians recognize that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is a Jew. Christians believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. But Muslims generally dislike Jews for a reason that is irreconcilable because it has to do with Islam's denial that the Jews were ever God's chosen people.

It's reasonable to compare the founder of one religion with the founder of another. And we can see that there's an infinite difference between the founder of Christianity vs the founder of Islam.

Many more than what? I didn't give any number for how many peaceful Muslims there are. Are you saying that you know the exact number of peaceful Muslims there are in the world?

The KKK goes against the teachings of Jesus Christ, and I'm sure they represent less than 1% of Christians in the world. Also, they are pretty much inactive as far as terrorism activities go. The only thing they do nowadays is have their hooded parades.

Abortionists rarely get murdered.

The IRA was motivated by socialism but later renounced violence.

Meanwhile, Islamic terrorism shows no sign of ever ending. Here's what Jordan's King Abdullah II (a Muslim) said about the problem of Islamic terrorism:

Just want to say props for this post. Very well stated.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Kindly refer to H. Belloc's writing with respect to Mohammedanism being a heresy in his great and immemorial book, "The Great Heresies".

 

[Rhamiel]

Christians and Jews sometimes don't get along, but we generally don't stay angry with each other

that is really bad history
it is a shame to say
but Christianity has had a lot more negative history with Judaism then Islam has

the institution of the Jewish Ghetto through Europe, the Pogroms in Russia and Germany, Jews being exiled from Spain, Portugal and England
the Spanish Inquisition

many Jews sided with the Muslims in the Holy Land so during the Crusades many Christian Knights decimated Jewish communities

the Blood liable and other slanderous lies being spread to justify discrimination and violence against jews

since Jews do not seek converts like Christianity does, they did better in Muslim countries

really it was not until the creation of Israel that relations between Jews and Muslims got bad

 

[Sword of the Lord]

that is really bad history
it is a shame to say
but Christianity has had a lot more negative history with Judaism then Islam has

the institution of the Jewish Ghetto through Europe, the Pogroms in Russia and Germany, Jews being exiled from Spain, Portugal and England
the Spanish Inquisition

many Jews sided with the Muslims in the Holy Land so during the Crusades many Christian Knights decimated Jewish communities

the Blood liable and other slanderous lies being spread to justify discrimination and violence against jews

since Jews do not seek converts like Christianity does, they did better in Muslim countries

really it was not until the creation of Israel that relations between Jews and Muslims got bad

Right, Satan (Islam) hates the prophetic restoration of the Jewish people (Israel). Although the Qur'an does instruct Muslims (Satan's [often] unwitting army) to attack the Jewish people who refuse to convert.

 

[Rhamiel]

Right, Satan (Islam) hates the prophetic restoration of the Jewish people (Israel). Although the Qur'an does instruct Muslims (Satan's [often] unwitting army) to attack the Jewish people who refuse to convert.

you ignore most of my post about the poor history between Jews and Christians

then you assume that the creation of the secular state of Israel is some how "prophetic"?

 

[dzheremi]

that is really bad history
it is a shame to say
but Christianity has had a lot more negative history with Judaism then Islam has

the institution of the Jewish Ghetto through Europe, the Pogroms in Russia and Germany, Jews being exiled from Spain, Portugal and England
the Spanish Inquisition

many Jews sided with the Muslims in the Holy Land so during the Crusades many Christian Knights decimated Jewish communities

the Blood liable and other slanderous lies being spread to justify discrimination and violence against jews

All of this is true, as far as it goes, but it is equally true that Christianity is not Europe.

since Jews do not seek converts like Christianity does, they did better in Muslim countries

A common anti-Christ theology on the part of both Jews and Muslims probably helps, too.

really it was not until the creation of Israel that relations between Jews and Muslims got bad

You might want to check the dates on this short list of anti-Jewish pogroms committed by Muslims and note how many occurred long before the establishment of the modern state of Israel (1949). 1033, 1066, 1517, 1839, etc.

I'm definitely not saying that things got any better with the establishment of Israel (certainly not, since it was built atop many Arab-populated areas, both Muslim and non), but to claim that relations between Jews and Muslims soured only after the creation of Israel is incredibly simplistic and highly debatable.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

you ignore most of my post about the poor history between Jews and Christians

then you assume that the creation of the secular state of Israel is some how "prophetic"?

Yes, it absolutely is.

 

[benedictaoo]

Islam is not a Christian heresy. It is a separate false religion that has a Christian influence.

 

[benedictaoo]

But aren't there Muslims who are peaceful?
Yes.

Who are they?
The secular Muslims or a Muslim in name alone, the ones who don't follow all of the teachings of Muhammad.

But can't Christianity be taken to the extreme?
Yes. An example of Christianity taken to the extreme is Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
.

So basically you're saying a "bad" Muslim is a good Muslim who doesn't want us all dead. And good Muslims are the ones who want to kill us?
.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

that is really bad history
it is a shame to say
but Christianity has had a lot more negative history with Judaism then Islam has

the institution of the Jewish Ghetto through Europe, the Pogroms in Russia and Germany, Jews being exiled from Spain, Portugal and England
the Spanish Inquisition

many Jews sided with the Muslims in the Holy Land so during the Crusades many Christian Knights decimated Jewish communities

the Blood liable and other slanderous lies being spread to justify discrimination and violence against jews

since Jews do not seek converts like Christianity does, they did better in Muslim countries

really it was not until the creation of Israel that relations between Jews and Muslims got bad

My point is whatever bad things happened between Christians and Jews in the past is pretty much in the past. However, Islam's dislike of the Jews is irreconcilable because it denies that the Jews were ever God's chosen people. But the Church has never denied the place that Jews have had as God's first chosen people. Since Jesus is Jewish, we can't stay angry with the Jews. Our Sacred Scriptures contain theirs. But Islam rejected the Christian Bible and replaced it with a rewritten history and theology.

 

[football5680]

So basically you're saying a "bad" Muslim is a good Muslim who doesn't want us all dead. And good Muslims are the ones who want to kill us?

Pretty much. The ones we would consider good would be the ones who either don't know what Muhammad taught and said or the ones who have chosen to disregard it.

 

[Michie]

I have been thinking about the religion that Mohammed founded and I find it quite interesting that Islam means submission. It does fit in with his history and mindset of being a warlord. Islam never was or never has been a peaceful religion in it's teachings.

 

[dzheremi]

To be fair, I would think most Muslims would define it in such a way as to mean "Submission to God", which is certainly not anything foreign to Christianity (or Judaism, as far as I know). Granted, in the experience of the non-Muslim populations of the Middle East it did mean submission to Arab-Muslim governance, law, and religion, but it's still a distinction that can be made between how the religion sees itself and how it has actually behaved in the world.

(More to your point/disgusting is the fact that the word that is used in Arabic for the Muslim conquests -- which are openly and positively recognized as conquests in Muslim literature written in Arabic -- is fatH فتح / futuH فتوح -- literally "opening(s)", in the sense of opening the world outside of Arabia proper to the rule of Islam. Gross.)